what causes this,(bad air circulation ?)..went to a house today and the condensation build up on the cistern was the worst i'd seen,the water temp is cold and the air temp warm is this causing or adding to the problem, he asked my advice and all i could come up with is for him to improve the air circulation within the room or get a humidifyer,any idea's ...?
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View the thread, titled "condensation on toilet cisterns" which is posted in Boiler Advice Forum on UK Plumbers Forums.
Condensation in home is usually due to cooking, bathing and drying washing. Some dry their washing on the radiators, putting pints of moisture into atmosphere.
Solution, fit mechanical extraction in bathroom, and kitchen, and don't dry washing inside.
As for dehumidifyer - job for life emptying, and wasting your money on fuel and box that will go wrong.
Solution, fit mechanical extraction in bathroom, and kitchen, and don't dry washing inside.
As for dehumidifyer - job for life emptying, and wasting your money on fuel and box that will go wrong.
Ventilation, ventilation, ventilation. An air conditioner or dehumidifier work.
As has been said, tank insulation but these are hit and miss.
They use anti sweat valves in the US to mix a little hot water in the cistern. This works well but you'd probably need to run off a secondard return to make it work and I haven't seen them over here.
As has been said, tank insulation but these are hit and miss.
They use anti sweat valves in the US to mix a little hot water in the cistern. This works well but you'd probably need to run off a secondard return to make it work and I haven't seen them over here.
Don't be fooled into treating symptoms - the moisture on the cistern is the symptom, not the cause
The cause is the moisture we make - make no moisture, get no condensation.
Insulating the cistern just treats the symptoms - however, the Grohe, plastic cisterns have a layer of polystyrene inside - plastic cisterns = low cost housing = drying washing inside, the Germans tooks steps!
The cause is the moisture we make - make no moisture, get no condensation.
Insulating the cistern just treats the symptoms - however, the Grohe, plastic cisterns have a layer of polystyrene inside - plastic cisterns = low cost housing = drying washing inside, the Germans tooks steps!
R
REDSAW
thread and solutions posted 2 years ago.
the 'real' problem is winter, colder mains water, warmer/drier air indoors due to heating = condensation.
best solution = increase cold main temp or separate cistern from room ambient temperature.
the 'real' problem is winter, colder mains water, warmer/drier air indoors due to heating = condensation.
best solution = increase cold main temp or separate cistern from room ambient temperature.
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G
Guest123
Need a good quality extractor fan designed for use in bathrooms. Even opening a door or window can help. It's generally a circulation problem that can be improved with good ventilation.
If the air was dry and warm, then there would be no surface condensation on cistern.
However, showers and cooking, put vapour into the air, which then shows itself as surface condensation.
Regarding treatment, there is another way, which saves energy - fit a air recovery ventilation system. This extracts air from moisture zone such as bathroom, which passes through a heat exchanger to condense the vapour, the dry, warm, air is then circulated back into the dwelling. There is a double saving to be made here, the sensible heat already in the air is recovered, while the latent heat (gained as vapour changes to liquid - latent heat of fusion) is a bonus.
I think these types of units will be more popular than central heating in our well insulated houses of the future. Quiet Heat Recovery Unit - Ventilation Systems
Condensation = fusion of vapour molecules, in changing from gas to liquid
bit early for physics, but all good stuff!
K
kay-jay
don't forget the other contributor...............cheap pot from b and q etc.
you can try and insulate the cistern but reports say its pretty crap. feed bog off cwsc (insulated) in the loft, less difference in temp between feed water temp and ambient air temp will result in less condensation.
you can try and insulate the cistern but reports say its pretty crap. feed bog off cwsc (insulated) in the loft, less difference in temp between feed water temp and ambient air temp will result in less condensation.
Quality,
For example - when showering in hot water, the air becomes moisture laden. This moisture, may be retained by the air - high humidity, without showing itself. When this moisture-laden air, meets a cold surface (wall, window, wc cistern) it condenses. The process of condensation, is the fusing back together of vapour molecules to form a liquid - this process gives up heat which is hidden or latent. So latent heat, is hidden in vapour, and given up, as vapour becomes a liquid.
Root cause analysis - creating vapour causes condensation
The surface-condensation or liquid on the cistern, comes from the moisture laden air in the room.
Solution - remove moisture at source - this is why mechanical extraction is building regulation requirement for bathrooms and kitchens.
This is not an opinion, its supported by building regs and scientific rationale
I think its both, but I could be wrong. Just did a wiki, for this but couldn't understand it.
Maybe you could explain.
K
kirkgas
worked in a boat repairer guys house yrs ago, and he had sprayed the inside of the cistern with fibreglass resin which gave an insulation level between the cold water and the hotter air in the bathroom, told him i didnt fancy the job of changing the syphon or ballcock when they went, but it seemed to work
Thanks for explanation quality,
My thinking of fusion is a coming together of molecules as in a gas changing to liquid, which is the opposite to vaporisation which is molecules moving apart, as in a liquid becoming a gas.
When a gas condenses, do the molecules fuse (move closer together) or do they move further apart?
Still can't get my head around that bit.
Thanks for your reply.
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I bought a de humidifier about 4 years ago. instant fix to all internal condensation, wc cistern and windows. Easy solution for about £80. Its true that they use electricity and need emptying, but there is also heat given of. I would always recomend using one.
R
REDSAW
for gawd sake, box it in.
H
Hybrid
If it's causing major problem feed from cistern in loft, gives the incoming water a chance to get up to temp.
D
Davelambo
Ive managed to stop the condensation forming on our bathroom cistern at last.
I have lined the cistern with a yoga mat (5mm)cut to shape and glued to the inside with a silicone sealer called "stixall".
It sticks to damp surfaces but i managed to dry the cistern with a hot air gun before starting.
I took most of the internal workings out to give me more room to work.
If you put plenty of silicone on,the gap between cistern walls and yoga mat acts as extra insulation.
All joints were sealed with it too.
No more wiping the cistern down every night now.
Hope this solution helps others with the same problem.
I have lined the cistern with a yoga mat (5mm)cut to shape and glued to the inside with a silicone sealer called "stixall".
It sticks to damp surfaces but i managed to dry the cistern with a hot air gun before starting.
I took most of the internal workings out to give me more room to work.
If you put plenty of silicone on,the gap between cistern walls and yoga mat acts as extra insulation.
All joints were sealed with it too.
No more wiping the cistern down every night now.
Hope this solution helps others with the same problem.
K
kirkgas
who remembers the mad "carpet like" covers you used to see on cisterns all over the place to combat condensation, haha they just soaked it up like a sponge then they stank, used to get a cister and loo seat cover in the same mad wooly material/colour
Science is about isolating variables and establishing root causes.
Posters are still talking about insulating cisterns and professing merits of dehumidifyers - hence what learning has gone on?
We need to identify where the vapour is coming from and remove it at source! or recycle it, to utilise the heat energy in that is integral to humid air.
The solution could be as simple as pegging your washing out.
A
amezcua
This story will make you laugh. I built an extension years ago. It had a cold water connection that I used for the new toilet (ground floor). I plumbed hot water from the upstairs boiler. All worked fine for 20 years till the original (extension )water pipe started leaking in the yard. That was disconnected. To save time I connected the hot supply to the loo cistern. Hot toilet water completely solved the condensation problem for about one year. Today I`m connecting the cold water pipe the right way again. Clear conscience and maybe a little condensation but not too much as we now have a brand new central heating system. First Time in my Life.
Quotation from a Rugby interview with a new Irish International. "How does it feel to be playing for Ireland?"
"Oh, it`s grand! And d`you know it`s the first time in my life I`ve ever had Two Pairs of Trousers".
Quotation from a Rugby interview with a new Irish International. "How does it feel to be playing for Ireland?"
"Oh, it`s grand! And d`you know it`s the first time in my life I`ve ever had Two Pairs of Trousers".
A
amezcua
The above story about hot toilet water was on tv years ago in a diy program in the Barry Bucknall era.(1950s) I remember my Dad laughing with me when we saw that. Barry Bucknall`s mission in life was to cover up anything that looked like original features. Everything had to be covered up with hardboard if he saw any mouldings.
R
REDSAW
i built a rocket out of yogat pots once.
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P
PlumbBobBob
my rocket was better i made it out of a fairy liquid bottle lol
A
amezcua
I had central heating fitted last month. The bathroom is above the kitchen .That`s one . The shower is in the same room as the cistern .That`s two.Cold water in the cistern causes the condensation. Last month I reversed a long standing temporary setup downstairs where the hot pipe ran to the cistern as well as the tap. (Due to an external leak in the yard). Now I will change the connection upstairs to fit the hot pipe to the cistern ( on purpose ) ..It`s the easiest solution and the radiator thermostat can adjust the difference. I can fit red and blue controls on hot and cold pipes to adjust for summer time if necessary. It`s a good practical solution to save the nice new carpet.
A
amezcua
If you still use the bath it can help to estimate the cold water needed and run that in the bath first.Then add the hot water. There will be far less steam in the room that way . A shower would be best with the extractor fan near the top of the shower cubicle or bath before the steam gets onto the cistern.
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