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Does anyone know how this happens
- Thread starter Sue66
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View the thread, titled "Does anyone know how this happens" which is posted in UK Plumbers Forums on UK Plumbers Forums.
Probably just a week/thin point in the copper.
Sue66
Gas Engineer
Ok thanks just seems wierd in such thick copper. I've had this one time before as well.
could be corrosion cut it open and find out 🙂
B
Burger
Could it be uncleared flux?
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Sue66
Gas Engineer
I find it extremely strange.
Lots of possible causes (Google it). It often said that copper pipe lasts 20-50 years.
If you are lucky, it'll be one defect in an otherwise good system. More realistically, it'll be the first of several in that run of pipe. If you are unlucky, pinholes will start appearing everywhere over the next few years and you'll need to re-pipe the whole house.
Personally, I'd replace the run at this point and have a critical look at the appearance of any other easily visible pipes. If the surface looks 'dimpled' that section is probably on its last legs.
If you do need to re-pipe, my advice would be to use branded high-quality tube such as Yorkshire, not some no-name stuff from China via ebay. (I suspect that plenty of people these days would repipe in plastic but I'm a dinasaur and I don't like the stuff.)
Sue66
Gas Engineer
There was nothing on the outside. I just don't get it.
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Struggling with this quote malarkey but Yes I see what you mean. So basically even really thick copper can just suddenly pin hole everywhere even though its super thick and this is just the first to appear.
What do you mean Quote malarkey?
Sue66
Gas Engineer
Sorry I was trying to quote what people are saying and it was problematic.
Ohhh. That make absolute sense now.
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Had 3 in the last 2 weeks. Had not had any in ages before that.
I don;t know w'y it happened.
but about 10 years ago, I had done a conventional to combi swap. Tidying up and getting paid. waked in the kitchen and water was squirting up through the kitchen floor. It was a quite magnificent fountain display, what you would see in a municipal pond / fountain. Had to replace about 9M of hot water pipe.
but about 10 years ago, I had done a conventional to combi swap. Tidying up and getting paid. waked in the kitchen and water was squirting up through the kitchen floor. It was a quite magnificent fountain display, what you would see in a municipal pond / fountain. Had to replace about 9M of hot water pipe.
Sue66
Gas Engineer
Love the image reminds me of Vegas. The bellagio or whatever it's called. Sound bloody awful from our perspective though
Sue,
It is more likely to be a result of the water quality that the pipe work quality. Bimetallic corrosion, high chlorine levels or high PH are all key contributory factors. Look for slight dimpling elsewhere on the system for an indication if this is the start of a longer term issue
It is more likely to be a result of the water quality that the pipe work quality. Bimetallic corrosion, high chlorine levels or high PH are all key contributory factors. Look for slight dimpling elsewhere on the system for an indication if this is the start of a longer term issue
Are you on a private water supply? Ours is very acidic & 15mm copper won't last 5 years (which I found 37 years ago after completely re-plumbing our "new" house in copper😡 I had to redo it all in plastic, since when all OK)
I sent pipe samples off to IMI etc etc & was told it was probably flux deposits which I found strange since it often occurred in vertical runs. When the water supply failed one day I went to the spring to investigate & found the brass tank connector on the collection tank had completely dezincified & could be crumbled with my fingers - THEN the penny dropped!
I sent pipe samples off to IMI etc etc & was told it was probably flux deposits which I found strange since it often occurred in vertical runs. When the water supply failed one day I went to the spring to investigate & found the brass tank connector on the collection tank had completely dezincified & could be crumbled with my fingers - THEN the penny dropped!
Don't be put off Copper by that. It is more than likely an impurity in the Copper. It might not happen again. Don't worry about it.
If it is corrosion caused by external influence, there is normally some kind of indication of that in my experience.
Plastic.........Ew no! Be a proper Plumber. He Ducks in readiness for the onslaught!
If it was flux, soldering gas pipes would be a risky business. 💥
I’m pretty sure it’s poor quality copper pipe.
I’m pretty sure it’s poor quality copper pipe.
A good read for anyone who has this type of problem. Blue water & type 1 have given me problems in the past.
Flowflex produce a really neat solder cap which fits over the leak.Turn water off, drain clip on with flux solder up simple
centralheatking
Attachments
It was Rhodesian copper tube, very thin walled and fragile. It does pinhole and when you work on it often developes leaks eleswhere
came accross it in Bath years ago. centralheatking
exedon2
Esteemed
Not that uncommon see pinhole corrosion 2 or 3 times a year even had it on my own property!
Always understood it's part of manufacturing process copper tube is drawn out and has to be anealed every so many passes.
During this process very occasional a small piece is scale becomes embedded in internal tube wall . Tube is very thin at that point and hard water and as some stage small fountain!
Always understood it's part of manufacturing process copper tube is drawn out and has to be anealed every so many passes.
During this process very occasional a small piece is scale becomes embedded in internal tube wall . Tube is very thin at that point and hard water and as some stage small fountain!
Not true I am afraid, at least it hasn't been for many a long year.
It is really worth the read, here is the link again http://www.fwr.org/copper.pdf
For the record it was type 2 (not 1) that I had a lot of problems with on high temp secondary HW returns.
I definitely need to get out more !!
Modern copper pipe from the big suppliers seems to have about 1/2 the wall thickness of the good old stuff you take out. Think we will be seeing a lot more of this stuff in years to come.
I don’t think that is correct. It depends on wherther or not you are comparing current specification R250 or R290 copper tube with earlier specifications. I have just micrometered ( if that is a word ) pieces of 15mm copper from 1969, 1976 and a new piece of R290 from stock. The wall thicknesses are all within the band 0.7 to 1.1mm - admittedly only three samples, with the latter (1.1mm) being current material. R250 (half hard) would be 0.7mm plus or minus 10%
It may be that its old imperial tube I've removed or that innner walls have an accumulation of contaminates but the old stuff seems to have significantly more heft than what I fit today. It could also be that I'm comparing with tube from the likes of Screwfix and not a merchant who may hold better quality products. Your analyasis is much more scientific than my entirely gut based approach so I could well be wrong.
15mm is available in wall thicknesses that range from 0.5 mm to 1.5mm.
Retail stores tend to stock relatively thin-wall, types, typically 0.7mm or 0.8mm.
Specifying copper tube correctly is surprisingly complicated:
Retail stores tend to stock relatively thin-wall, types, typically 0.7mm or 0.8mm.
Specifying copper tube correctly is surprisingly complicated:
Thanks for the info, I've seen similar specs in industrial applications but never for domestic stuff. Interesting to know, I guess its the race to the bottom like everything else.
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