Fernox Tf1 total filter reversed flow

[DaveB0360]

Hi all, am new to this forum & hoping for assistance with new installation of Fernox TF1 Total filter.

Have a new Intergas Rapid 25 boiler installed by gas safe engineer but he's installed the filter with reversed flow.
The return pipe drops behind boiler to 500mm below boiler and the engineer has fitted it into the downward leg of the return pipe instead of the upward leg to boiler return tail. The arrow on the filter is in upward direction against the downward flow direction of the system. How significant is this for the filter/system and what's the best way to correct this for maximum filter effect please. The engineer is not liky to be available to correct his work.
Thanks in advance

 

[sammathias]

The arrow pointing towards the boiler on the return pipework?

 

[Riley]

I’m guessing op means water is running through the filter top to bottom. Really doesn’t make any difference there are bigger stresses on an install as TF1 can be fitted on multiple angles

 

[DaveB0360]

The arrow pointing towards the boiler on the return pipework?

OK..... Return pipe runs behind boiler in downwards direction to the top of the tf1 filter port which should be the exit port of the filter, according to flow arrow on the port. Opposing the flow arrow. Return water exits bottom of filter port then turns upwards towards return tail of boiler.
This is opposite flow direction shown by the arrow.
I'll try to post a photo....

 

[DaveB0360]

I’m guessing op means water is running through the filter top to bottom. Really doesn’t make any difference there are bigger stresses on an install as TF1 can be fitted on multiple angles

Correct, the flow is running through filter port in reverse direction to the arrow on the tf1 hub.
Rang fernox tech & they state that filter will be ineffective with this flow arrangement.
TBH, I'm super unimpressed by the fitter who has bodged several aspects of the install, including the vertical flue through pitched Roof.... No brackets, strange angle and storm collar canted on the lead slate with clearly visible opening showing. Worried about how to rectify this. He never even secured surrounding slates, they're just loosely placed.

 

[Riley]

Get gas safe involved. They won’t be concerned about the filter but the other issues are bad. The filter is very easily rectified. Isolate the filter, drain it, remove it, spin the connectors 180°, reattach, refill, bleed, Robert is your mothers brother. I still maintain that it really won’t make a vast difference. But to be fair that’s why I don’t fit TF1s I think they’re tat

 

[DaveB0360]

Get gas safe involved. They won’t be concerned about the filter but the other issues are bad. The filter is very easily rectified. Isolate the filter, drain it, remove it, spin the connectors 180°, reattach, refill, bleed, Robert is your mothers brother. I still maintain that it really won’t make a vast difference. But to be fair that’s why I don’t fit TF1s I think they’re tat

So what do you fit? And how to get gas safe involved? Been to their website and it only offers an application form to present installation for inspection.

 

[Riley]

Give them a call, tell them you’ve been less than impressed with your installer. They will carry out a free inspection for you

 

[DaveB0360]

Get gas safe involved. They won’t be concerned about the filter but the other issues are bad. The filter is very easily rectified. Isolate the filter, drain it, remove it, spin the connectors 180°, reattach, refill, bleed, Robert is your mothers brother. I still maintain that it really won’t make a vast difference. But to be fair that’s why I don’t fit TF1s I think they’re tat

I feel terrible about the prospects of getting the fitter into trouble. I'm a competent fitter and installed all the rads & pipework in copper myself with no issues as I've done many times in past (I'm electronics engineer) I decided not to risk boiler install from legal viewpoint and assumed an experienced gas safe engineer would be impeccable. Sadly not. I watched the guy work and he never cleaned or deburred any joints before soldering, never wiped excess flux, etc etc.... Pipe layout is dire. Never set burner or checked combustion and never did any commissioning checks or setup at all. Frankly, I'm shocked at his poor workmanship.....he never even filled out the benchmark form.... Took the serial number and said he'd do gas safe registration from home.

 

[Riley]

Well many of us do, do the gas safe registration from home as it’s usually the last job and you don’t have to be stood in the customers house to do it. The benchmark as far as I’m concerned is key. It should be completed to show the correct commissioning procedure. So he didn’t use a flue gas analyser?? Burner shouldn’t really need adjusting out of the box but should be checked. To be honest it’s not a case of getting the engineer in trouble. If he’s qualified he should know what he should be doing and not cut corners. Being gas safe is sadly no guarantee of workmanship. I always show customers pics of my installs or am happy to provide previous customers details for reference. The pipe runs could be down to a lack of communication. If you don’t specify then it is down to engineers best judgement. Show us some pics

 

[DaveB0360]

Well many of us do, do the gas safe registration from home as it’s usually the last job and you don’t have to be stood in the customers house to do it. The benchmark as far as I’m concerned is key. It should be completed to show the correct commissioning procedure. So he didn’t use a flue gas analyser?? Burner shouldn’t really need adjusting out of the box but should be checked. To be honest it’s not a case of getting the engineer in trouble. If he’s qualified he should know what he should be doing and not cut corners. Being gas safe is sadly no guarantee of workmanship. I always show customers pics of my installs or am happy to provide previous customers details for reference. The pipe runs could be down to a lack of communication. If you don’t specify then it is down to engineers best judgement. Show us some pics

I need to go charge phone then I'll post some pics. I hate being critical, especially when he's the guy that's invested in his qualifications, not me. But I know I could truly have done a better job and have done pre gas safe days. Trapped condensate pipework etc.... Doesn't inspire confidence in employing 'skilled' supposed craftsmen.

 

[DaveB0360]

Well many of us do, do the gas safe registration from home as it’s usually the last job and you don’t have to be stood in the customers house to do it. The benchmark as far as I’m concerned is key. It should be completed to show the correct commissioning procedure. So he didn’t use a flue gas analyser?? Burner shouldn’t really need adjusting out of the box but should be checked. To be honest it’s not a case of getting the engineer in trouble. If he’s qualified he should know what he should be doing and not cut corners. Being gas safe is sadly no guarantee of workmanship. I always show customers pics of my installs or am happy to provide previous customers details for reference. The pipe runs could be down to a lack of communication. If you don’t specify then it is down to engineers best judgement. Show us some pics

He used a sniffer to check for gas leaks but that's it, never checked anything else.

 

[Riley]

So never even did a tightness test at the meter. I’m calling not gas safe

 

[DaveB0360]

So never even did a tightness test at the meter. I’m calling not gas safe

Now that, I'm not sure about, I left him to do the gas pipework in the outside box so couldn't say exactly what he did at meter (it was a new main connection, house had never had gas in before). He set his sniffer off to calibrate but I never saw him use it.... Not indoors anyway.

 

[Aire]

Haha, love how your initial concern is with the filter and then on a side note describe a very poor and possibly dangerous gas installation 😀. I don't know why you feel bad at possibly getting the fitter into trouble, you've paid a professional to come into your home and by the sounds of it all he has done is put you and your family at risk. I wouldn't think twice about notifying gas safe.

 

[snowhead]

You need to get this sorted out.
If there's a warranty issue with the boiler the first thing the manufacturer will want is the Benchmark paperwork.
If the guy is not registered you'll have to pay for any repairs.

First I'd contact the Guy who fitted it and ask him to fill in the Benchmark paperwork and say you have concerns about all that you've stated.

The flue is a serious situation.
He'll need to employ a roofer as he clearly doesn't have the appropriate skills.

If it turns out the guy that fitted it is not Gassafe you'll end up having to have the boiler removed and refitted by someone who is.
But by that time Gassafe must have got involved.

 

[DaveB0360]

Haha, love how your initial concern is with the filter and then on a side note describe a very poor and possibly dangerous gas installation 😀. I don't know why you feel bad at possibly getting the fitter into trouble, you've paid a professional to come into your home and by the sounds of it all he has done is put you and your family at risk. I wouldn't think twice about notifying gas safe.

Hi, my initial was intended to see how effective this forum might be at providing some help, responses were helpful, thanks, so I then thought I'd sound out any respondents on their opinions of other concerns I have.
I'm a very fastidious person and like things done right. I was grateful for this fitter coming out and getting us up & running because we were cold with no heating. So when he powered the system up and we were warm at last, we celebrated and were happy. It's only since, that I've been trying to finish the job (box work, earthing etc) that I've noticed these errors. I showed him the flue from an upstairs window and he simply said, I don't think rain will get in. Not the response I was expecting so I looked in more detail. I've got a detector nearby and not had any alerts but I doubt flue the flue will survive one of our northeast Coast storms.

 

[DaveB0360]

You need to get this sorted out.
If there's a warranty issue with the boiler the first thing the manufacturer will want is the Benchmark paperwork.
If the guy is not registered you'll have to pay for any repairs.

First I'd contact the Guy who fitted it and ask him to fill in the Benchmark paperwork and say you have concerns about all that you've stated.

The flue is a serious situation.
He'll need to employ a roofer as he clearly doesn't have the appropriate skills.

If it turns out the guy that fitted it is not Gassafe you'll end up having to have the boiler removed and refitted by someone who is.
But by that time Gassafe must have got involved.

Thanks for the advice. I checked him with gas safe and he was a genuine gas safe registered fitter. His qualifications included 'non masonry flue' so assumed he could competently install the flue. I even precision cut the elliptical ceiling opening for him .... There were also references on a local Web site praising him so I thought I'd be in safe hands.

 

[DaveB0360]

Thanks for the advice. I checked him with gas safe and he was a genuine gas safe registered fitter. His qualifications included 'non masonry flue' so assumed he could competently install the flue. I even precision cut the elliptical ceiling opening for him .. There were also references on a local Web site praising him so I thought I'd be in safe hands.

Here's some photos.

 

[Aire]

Obviously we cant see everything from the photos but nothing immediately concerns me with those photos, obviously I can't see how the tiles are fixed but I can't see the gap you mention. The filter looks Ok but again I can't see which way the direction arrow is pointing, if it's pointing up then all is good. So the only concerning parts is the benchmark not filled it, the flue not been clipped and the possibility he hasn't commissioned the boiler, and the condensate looks like it might be running slighlty up hill. If you are generally concerned then you can either call gas safe or another local engineer to come and check it over.