Firestop Plates

[wakeydave]

Hi Guys,
We've just installed a Vaillant ecotec Pro in an upstairs cupboard with the flue terminating through the loft space. The customer has asked why it hasn't got a firestop plate where the flue goes through the ceiling. I've explained that it doesn't need one as the outer flue won't get hot.

I've read the manufacturers instructions and there isn't a mention of fitting one nor a part number for one. I've also tried finding the gas regs that might explain it but i haven't had any luck.

Can anyone shed any light on if i need to go back and fit one.


many thanks in anticipation of any help/info

wakeydave

 

[diamondgas]

I do believe you need them wakeydave .. It's one of those regs that hasn't caught up with the times unfortunatly... 25mm gap... I read it not to long back ... I'll see if I can find out where and get back to you..

 

[EPH]

Worcester supply similar with their vertical flue kits so I'd say the might?

 

[AWheating]

the gap between the flue and plasterboard must be sealed in a way as to not effect the fire rating of the ceiling.

 

[GrahamM]

Hi Guys,
We've just installed a Vaillant ecotec Pro in an upstairs cupboard with the flue terminating through the loft space. The customer has asked why it hasn't got a firestop plate where the flue goes through the ceiling. I've explained that it doesn't need one as the outer flue won't get hot.

I've read the manufacturers instructions and there isn't a mention of fitting one nor a part number for one. I've also tried finding the gas regs that might explain it but i haven't had any luck.

Can anyone shed any light on if i need to go back and fit one.


many thanks in anticipation of any help/info

wakeydave

This is a question I have had trouble with a definitive answer.
I believe the purpose of a fire-stop plate is to make good the hole round the flue to slow down the spread of fire. It has nothing to do with providing a heat gap in case the flue gets hot wakeydave. As per the letter of the law-a gap of 25mm is required from inner flue of twin wall or concentric flue to any combustible material-this is clear although long out of date due to the condensing boilers flue being far cooler.
The issue that is not clear is in the fire-stop requirements. Is a fire stop required (top & bottom) of every floor/ceiling the flue passes through and must this be a specific material ie. the plates Worcester supply. Will a bit of fireboard screwed to the ceiling suffice or bit of heat resistant silicone or sand/cement even?
Any clear guidelines on this?

 

[AWheating]

Building regs part b2 covers internal fire spread but i dont think you will find any specific details reguarding fire stops. I do know that any firestop must be fixed to ensure its fixings wont fail before itself in the event of a fire, what good is a fire stop if it falls out due to poor fixings?



the above is from part j of the building regs, i think as with anything else manufactures guidelines should be followed if available.

 

[diamondgas]

Wakeydave - Official from the "Gas Bible" Fifth Edition - Second Revised!

Vertical fan draught room-sealed chimneys type C31, C32 &C33 appliances.
Always follow the appliance manufacturer's installation instructions. In addition these requirements will also need to be met:​

• [*=1]When the chimney passes through a ceiling or wooden floor, there will need to be an air gap of 25mm between any part of the chimney system and any combustible material. Using proprietary ceiling plate will normally provide for this.[*=1]When the chimney passes from one room to another, you must fit a fire stop to prevent the passage of smoke or fire, irrespective of the structural material through which the chimney passes.

My interpretation of that would be if going through an upstairs ceiling into the roof space then a ceiling plate will do. Travelling through occupied rooms means you need a fire stop plate ... yeh?

 

[wakeydave]

Many thanks guys for your help, info and opinions.

I was aware of the 25mm gap around the flue and thought the white rubber collar would both cover the gap and provide a nice finish as it went through the ceiling - which we have fitted. I was just a bit worried that this customer knew something we didn't, when asking for a firestop. I've read the manufacturers instructions front to back and upside down (and that didn't help), and also contacted their customer service this morning and i'm currently awaiting an email from them that say's one isn't required.

It's always nice when the customer is happy with the install ( which he is) apart from the firestop question. I might just fit one to appease him depending on how i think he is when i let him know the answer.

 

[diamondgas]

I'd agree regards keeping the custard happy, even the "know-it-all"! Most work at the end of the day comes through word of mouth I've found. Do a good job and they may recommend you to one or two people, do a bad one and they'll tell everone they know!! :smart:

 

[SimonJohns]

Corgi called me up in this about 2 years ago

You got to fit them 🙁

Stupid I KNOW


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[AWheating]

Many thanks guys for your help, info and opinions.

I was aware of the 25mm gap around the flue and thought the white rubber collar would both cover the gap and provide a nice finish as it went through the ceiling

Assuming the ceiling is plaster board then it should have a min fire rate of 1/2 hour, building regs require you to make good to keep this fire rating level. The plastic collar is not good enough for this purpose unless the manufacture has tested it.

 

[wakeydave]

Assuming the ceiling is plaster board then it should have a min fire rate of 1/2 hour, building regs require you to make good to keep this fire rating level. The plastic collar is not good enough for this purpose unless the manufacture has tested it.

ah, so if i make the gap good with intumescent sealant and refit the rubber collar then i should be ok ???

 

[SimonJohns]

ah, so if i make the gap good with intumescent sealant and refit the rubber collar then i should be ok ???

Yes. But you'll prob find if your inspected that they'll want to see the fire stop gaurd


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[AWheating]

personally i would fit a fire guard, you have to have the 25mm gap to plasterboard anyway so a sealent would struggle anyway.

 

[Reg Man]

Fire stopping requirements are in PART B BUILDING REGULATIONS Section 7.

 

[Barry98]

And date of last post is in the left hand corner above the posters name 🙂

 

[Reg Man]

I know, can't help digging up old news