Glow-worm meltdown

[lich]

I got my boiler (11 year old GlowWorm Ultimate 120FF) serviced at the end of October 2012, mainly because the fan sounded noisy when it started up. My partner who was home at the time didn't mention the fan to the guy who did the service.

Now, in Feb 2013, the boiler has packed up - the fan stopped working and the boiler has started leaking, and looks as if it will need replacing (and the overheat button has not 'popped').

The servicer maintains that he did a perfectly good job, and followed the 'procedure', and since he wasn't told about the fan, he didn't bother to check it specifically.

My question is: Was it reasonable that he didn't notice the fan and suggest replacement ? Also, since it is now leaking, and the overheat button has not popped, should he have noticed this ?

He's going to replace the boiler tomorrow morning at some considerable expense to me.

11 Years is quite old, and Glow-worm are not exactly state of the art, but is it reasonable to expect the guy to have detected the faulty fan and/or the non-working overheat switch without prompting, or is it just bad luck ?

 

[SimonG]

So three and a half months later it's the service guys fault. I don't think so.

 

[lich]

OK - just asking for an opinion ....

 

[dave1]

So three and a half months later it's the service guys fault. I don't think so.

Have to agree with Simon. Not a chance.

 

[dave1]

What new boiler are you having installed?

 

[lich]

Vallient 637 I think ....

 

[Whn1]

Insulting that some people think of us this way.

 

[fast phil]

Insulting that some people think of us this way.

:iagree:

 

[lich]

Like I said - just asking for an opinon. No need to flame me for that is there ?

 

[hammers4spanner]

nope not his fault and like you said 11 year old boiler

 

[Roger Welton]

Just one of those things, heat exchanger can go at any time without much warning.

 

[Reg Man]

You have done well to get 11 years out of a glow worm ultimate. Its probably served you hot water and heating every day for limited maintenance and repair. The service engineer could'nt possibly predict its final ending 3 months ago. Look forward to your new boiler and hopefully you might get a max 10 years out of it.

 

[lich]

Thanks guys - I know S*D all about boliers, and just wanted to check that I wasn't being lead up the garden path (and to be honest the service guy seems like a decent bloke anyway)!

 

[stevetheplumber]

a lot of fans get a bit noisy long before they fail if he had changfed the fan and the boiler had failed 3 months later you would be even more peeved think of it like a car you can have it serviced this week and the head gasket blow or the clutch break up the next

 

[SilentMike]

I know your only asking for advice
The fan wont be part of the sevice procedure check the manaul.
a noisey fan can carry on for a long time, say you hadn't noticed and he said you need a new fan it will be X amount of££ how would you feel about that? It wont be the cause of the leak.
How do you know its a overheat problem thats caused the leak? if thats the case then there could be other problems with your boiler sounds like hes saved you the price of a fan and labour to me?

 

[leaky]

Had my mot done three weeks ago and today the brake light bulb went should i go back to the garage and compliain or what lol

 

[TBServices]

Jesus

 

[lich]

Grow up.

 

[Reg Man]

I think we have made the point, no need to go on.

 

[lich]

Thanks for the sensible responses I received, but I can't help noticing a bit of a defensive note in some of the other posts.

I accept that in this case, it's just one of those things and they guy who serviced the boiler is not to blame.

BUT - I am an 'end user' and I don't know or give a stuff what is says in the service manual, I just wanted to get my boiler sorted out before the winter so it wouldn't pack up in midwinter.

It is a bit of a bummer that I took that precaution, only to find that the boiler packed up anyway.

It sounds to me as if I may as well _not_ bother to employ anybody to service my boiler in future, since it is likely to break down at a random time anyway, at which point I get it repaired or replaced as required.

If any of you wants your websites updated for 125 quid an hour, I would be happy to help, but please not thatI dont do weekend callouts, and any code I have written only has a 24 hour warranty.

 

[SilentMike]

a service and a brakedown is not the same thing, not all that diffrent from a car service if you had a problem with your car would you take it for a service?
you'll have to have the new one serviced if you want to keep your warranty

 

[Ray Stafford]

Lich, if some of the posters come over as a bit defensive, its because they come across this all the time, and its an unrealistic expectation.

Its good practice to get your boiler serviced for the same reason that its good practice to get your car serviced - both for safety reasons, and for fuel economy. In both cases there are sometime parts that need routine replacement, but you don't expect a warranty on your whole car for the price of a service.

The analogy is a pretty good one - if you get your car serviced, and they fail to notice a badly worn brake pad, or an obvious oil leak, then you have grounds to complain. But they can't check everything, and you don't expect them to.

If you notice something specifically wrong with your car, you don't take it for a service you take it for a repair, or you do both - book the service, but specifically ask the mechanic to check out the problem you noticed.

On an 11 year old car, lots of things are waiting to go wrong. The same applies to an 11 year old boiler. Some will go on for ages with minimum work, some will start to cause problems long before their 11th birthday.

It virtually impossible to tell which is which in advance.

 

[Whn1]

If any of you wants your websites updated for 125 quid an hour, I would be happy to help, but please not thatI dont do weekend callouts, and any code I have written only has a 24 hour warranty.

Not really selling yourself here.

 

[lich]

Ray,

Thanks for your wise words. I do realise that I have just been unlucky on this occasion, if I had asked my wife to tell the service guy about the fan, he might have looked at it and replaced it, and the boiler might have lasted a couple of years longer. I have to say, I would have thought the fan was a pretty important component, and one could reasonably expect it to be part of the service drill, especially for such an old boiler, but we live and learn.

Cheers,

Lich

 

[lich]

Not really selling yourself here.

My point entierly.

 

[SimonG]

Thanks for the sensible responses I received, but I can't help noticing a bit of a defensive note in some of the other posts.

I accept that in this case, it's just one of those things and they guy who serviced the boiler is not to blame.

BUT - I am an 'end user' and I don't know or give a stuff what is says in the service manual, I just wanted to get my boiler sorted out before the winter so it wouldn't pack up in midwinter.

It is a bit of a bummer that I took that precaution, only to find that the boiler packed up anyway.

It sounds to me as if I may as well _not_ bother to employ anybody to service my boiler in future, since it is likely to break down at a random time anyway, at which point I get it repaired or replaced as required.

If any of you wants your websites updated for 125 quid an hour, I would be happy to help, but please not thatI dont do weekend callouts, and any code I have written only has a 24 hour warranty.

Nothing defensive, people just don't like to read that customer is trying to shaft an engineer that has done a good job.

From the sound of it you thought you had a problem with the boiler and called for a service, which wasn't technically correct and then 'forgot' to tell the engineer that you thought the fan was noisy.

I bet it wasn't serviced in October 2011.

 

[dancinplumba]

125 squid ? far far to cheap imo. even if fan replaced would have still leaked.....

 

[P J F PLUMBING]

it worked before you touched it and i only wanted it serviced you touched it last heard this a million times

 

[Roger Welton]

Whilst the fan may have failed, it certainly isn't the cause of the boiler leaking water. When they fail the boiler just stops. They are a moving part, and subject to high temperatures so do have a limited lifespan, they are however replaceable, though in you case it sounds like the main heat exchanger is leaking also which is terminal.

 

[lich]

it worked before you touched it and i only wanted it serviced you touched it last heard this a million times

?????

 

[lich]

Actually - it was ....

 

[lich]

Whilst the fan may have failed, it certainly isn't the cause of the boiler leaking water. When they fail the boiler just stops. They are a moving part, and subject to high temperatures so do have a limited lifespan, they are however replaceable, though in you case it sounds like the main heat exchanger is leaking also which is terminal.

OK - Good information. Thanks.

 

[lich]

Nothing defensive, people just don't like to read that customer is trying to shaft an engineer that has done a good job.

From the sound of it you thought you had a problem with the boiler and called for a service, which wasn't technically correct and then 'forgot' to tell the engineer that you thought the fan was noisy.

I bet it wasn't serviced in October 2011.

Actually - it was.

 

[hammers4spanner]

your getting a new boiler now anyhows so does it matter??

 

[Whn1]

I'll service it for you next year if you like.

 

[lich]

Yup. I am getting a new boiler and it's going to cost me almost 3 grand all told. Since I am not a plumber, that is hard to find .... 😉


But like I said - thanks to those people who posted sensible replies!

 

[Reg Man]

Thanks for the sensible responses I received, but I can't help noticing a bit of a defensive note in some of the other posts.

I accept that in this case, it's just one of those things and they guy who serviced the boiler is not to blame.

BUT - I am an 'end user' and I don't know or give a stuff what is says in the service manual, I just wanted to get my boiler sorted out before the winter so it wouldn't pack up in midwinter.

It is a bit of a bummer that I took that precaution, only to find that the boiler packed up anyway.

It sounds to me as if I may as well _not_ bother to employ anybody to service my boiler in future, since it is likely to break down at a random time anyway, at which point I get it repaired or replaced as required.

If any of you wants your websites updated for 125 quid an hour, I would be happy to help, but please not thatI dont do weekend callouts, and any code I have written only has a 24 hour warranty.

The annual service is recommended to ensure the boiler is safe and functioning at the time of the service. There is no way anyone can guarantee that the boiler will function without breakdown thereafter, especially on an 11year old appliance. Sorry if some of the responses and analogies have sounded a little defensive or negative. Personaly I think you have done very well with this appliance.

 

[Howsie]

If you write the code and it has a bug in it then its your fault. If I service a boiler and it breaks down due to wear and tear then its not might fault. It's quite binary don't you think?

 

[lich]

I'll service it for you next year if you like.

I might take you up on that 😉 !

 

[hammers4spanner]

so what boiler ?

 

[lich]

If you write the code and it has a bug in it then its your fault. If I service a boiler and it breaks down due to wear and tear then its not might fault. It's quite binary don't you think?

Yes and No.

 

[lich]

so what boiler ?

New boiler will be a Vallient 637 I think .... Yippie

 

[hammers4spanner]

good choice

 

[lich]

good choice

Hope it lasts at least another 11 years!

 

[Reg Man]

Yup. I am getting a new boiler and it's going to cost me almost 3 grand all told. Since I am not a plumber, that is hard to find .... 😉


But like I said - thanks to those people who posted sensible replies!

Not all plumbers are rich. Its a hard job and its a mith that plumbers in general earn £1.000's and £1,000's a year. I'm retired now thanks to my very sucessful wife who worked in the food manufacturing industry. My 19 year old son is a qualified NVQ level2 plumber working on self employed contracts for £60 a day. It's those in the banking industry who should have shame for their huge bonuses, whilst loosing my investment money.

 

[Reg Man]

Yes and No.

Or on and off (binary)

 

[lich]

The oldies are the best .... 😉

 

[lich]

Err - I am not so sure Bankers are the evil ones any more - are we not now natoinally angry with the food processing industry and horsemeat .... ?

 

[lich]

Anyway - time to get of this forum and order a takeaway ......

Thnaks again all!

 

[Reg Man]

Thankfully wife was not not involved in the scummy side of food and drinks industry.

 

[Howsie]

Yes and No.

Just yes. If its your code that's at fault then it's down to you. If someone else has changed a web service or API then then that's outside of your control. Can you see where I'm going with this...

 

[Howsie]

Or on and off (binary)

The difference being? 😉

 

[Reg Man]

Points made? one thinks.

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

Points made? one thinks.

agree+1

 

[Howsie]

You guys!

 

[lich]

Just yes. If its your code that's at fault then it's down to you. If someone else has changed a web service or API then then that's outside of your control. Can you see where I'm going with this...

Only vaguely - if you write decent code, and test it thoroughly, then it's behaviour will be largely invarient. If the webservices or API's it happens to talk to are equally well tested and adhere to thier contracts, then nothing will break.

In my particular line of work - if stuff like this breaks, people get fired.

Doesnt seem to apply elsewhere .....

 

[Reg Man]

The difference being? 😉

111000110101000100101010100111110001010101010101001010010101111110000011111010101001010

 

[TBServices]

111000110101000100101010100111110001010101010101001010010101111110000011111010101001010

binary solo

 

[lich]

#define _ -F<00||--F-OO--;
int F=00,OO=00;main(){F_OO();printf("%1.3f\n",4.*-F/OO/OO);}F_OO()
{
_-_-_-_
_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_
_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_
_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_
_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_
_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_
_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_
_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_
_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_
_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_
_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_
_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_
_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_
_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_
_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_
_-_-_-_
}

 

[Reg Man]

Thats good. Hope all goes well with your new boiler.

 

[lich]

Thanks - and thanks for the measured advice. Just paid the deposit. Will not hesitate to make loud noises on this forum if, unexpectedly, it doesn't go according to plan 😉

 

[dave1]

Thanks - and thanks for the measured advice. Just paid the deposit. Will not hesitate to make loud noises on this forum if, unexpectedly, it doesn't go according to plan 😉

In the nicest possible way hopefully won't be hearing from you again lol.
No only kidding, good luck with the new boiler, personally I like vaillant and would recommend them.

 

[Koogatubac]

Lol just read all this, good on you lich for taking on board constructive criticism, i was close to say 'a boiler service is exactly like a cars mot'

Cutting this short. Hope your new boiler gives you very hot water and warm heating in years to come 🙂 us plumbers just get cranky alot! Especially these stories haha!

 

[Howsie]

/exit