Grundfos Alpha+ 25/60 pump replacement

[Gray0689]

All pumps are European standard!!

 

[DirksPlumbing]

i'm not sure dirks, should you? If you just replacing the head then yes as the nominal bore will be the same, if your replacing the whole unit then 15/60 will be smaller and whether or not this has any effect is up to you to consider I suppose.

I am 99% positive about that. As per description off the OP he has a 130mm body and I am pretty sure he has not got 1" connectors. Would be the first manifold and as well as it sports by now a 25/60 body anyway. There is practically no chance for mistakes. The Alpha 2L 15/60 will fit and work perfectly fine.
Second question should be if it even needs a 15/60? As they had been fitted standard in the mixer module with no consideration of the manifold in use.

 

[Nostrum]

probably used the wrong terminology in the above post to be fair so put my hands up to that.

 

[DirksPlumbing]

All pumps are European standard!!

Pretty correct. Just the DIN EN describes the same matter as the BS EN. Are you sure that the content is the same? I would be very surprised. Being an EN norm does not mean that this is a unique norm valid for all the countries. Otherwise we only needed EN norms and could save a lot of room in the books by skipping the constant repetition of DIN or BS.

 

[Gray0689]

The different colours on grundfos pumps is a lot are sold as contract pumps to different manufacturers I only get 25 - 50 60 80 or alphas and magnas over here but as where close to ROI could be coming through there
May be different on mainland I'm not sure

 

[DirksPlumbing]

probably used the wrong terminology in the above post to be fair so put my hands up to that.

No reason to feel bad about I only know it because I have a lot of practical experience with this matter. I had to spend hours of research and reading and talking to german and british merchands before I had a reasonable insight. There are indeed minor differences between a British 15-130 and a european 25-130 body which get reflected in the specific norms. But these differences are to no practical difference in a domestic siuation and in specific will have zero effect whilst using standard pump connectors.

 

[DirksPlumbing]

The different colours on grundfos pumps is a lot are sold as contract pumps to different manufacturers I only get 25 - 50 60 80 or alphas and magnas over here but as where close to ROI could be coming through there
May be different on mainland I'm not sure

See, it looks indeed as there are even differences between mainland and ROI. The shelfs here do sport 15/50, 15/60 and 25/80 normally. But I would not even know if Wolseley is widespread over there and if if they do different catalogues?

 

[Nostrum]

I know the 15 or 25 relates to the nominal bore through the pump, and the 50/60 whatever relates to the head capable. Never delved deep enough into the finer details but my understanding was that the bore size was important to UFH (mainly because they are normally only found on UFH over here), what you are saying though is that foreign UFH kits being sold in the UK, hence EU pumps and no performance gains through bore size?

Where's that hat, feeling quite hungry

 

[DirksPlumbing]

@OP: Looks like you need to specify where about you are located?

 

[DirksPlumbing]

I know the 15 or 25 relates to the nominal bore through the pump, and the 50/60 whatever relates to the head capable. Never delved deep enough into the finer details but my understanding was that the bore size was important to UFH (mainly because they are normally only found on UFH over here), what you are saying though is that foreign UFH kits being sold in the UK, hence EU pumps and no performance gains through bore size?

Where's that hat, feeling quite hungry

You are on the right track there. The bore is the main difference. But if you squeeze it through two standard gate/ball valve pump connectors where will that leave you? You seen any of them anywhere about here to make use of a wider bore in the pump? And no the friction in a standard UFH installation is miles lesser than in a 8mm microbore installation. Already by the bigger bore, the better pipe walls, the limitation of pipe length per circuit guaranty a reasonable quality. Often there is even 16mm pipes in use or bigger.

 

[DirksPlumbing]

You are on the right track there. The bore is the main difference.

Practical difference is that a european 25-130 body has to have a minimum bore whereas on a 15-130 body this opening is allowed to be smaller. At Grundfos there is only one body made and just the plate at the pump is different. I have a Grundfos 15/60 130 and a 25/50 130 right next to me. Guess if there is any difference in the body except colour.

 

[DirksPlumbing]

At Grundfos there is only one body made and just the plate at the pump is different.

Sorry, to be precise there is more than one body but Grundfos does not open up extra production lines for a british standard pump and even uses extra material to make sure that the body does not fulfill the norms for the 25-130. Of course the body for the alphas is different from the standard body. And the 180mm body is different from the 130mm one. And the bodies have evolved over time as well. Already when you see that Grundfos has halved the energy consum of the standard pumps in the last 20 years. And I would bid that the body will play a fair roll in this. That is why I prefer to change the whole pump rather the head only.

 

[bmwamac]

Thanks for all the info guys but are you saying a Grundfos Alpha2 L 15/60 130 will do the job or shall I hold out for the Alpha 2 L 25/60 130. Having spoke to a couple of distributors today they are telling me the pump is unavailable (25/60 130) only available to OEM....Sounds crazy!

 

[bmwamac]

Thanks for all the help but talk of pump curves etc and BS / En standards is all abit over my head. Can I fit the 15/60 130 pump head onto the existing 25/60 130 pump base?

 

[bmwamac]

The pump body has 1.5" connections, all I can see is the 15/60 130's with 1" bodies. Also it appears as though the Alpha 2L 25/60 130 is only 22watt not the 45watt of the Alpha 2 25/60 130. Have spoken to Grundfos today and they are saying they can't help "go back to the OEM" Polypipe the OEM are saying the Alpha 2 15/60 will fit. I'm saying if the Alpha 2 15/60 does not have 1.5" connection then it will not fit. Can anybody make sense of the whole situation.

 

[DirksPlumbing]

The pump body has 1.5" connections, all I can see is the 15/60 130's with 1" bodies. Also it appears as though the Alpha 2L 25/60 130 is only 22watt not the 45watt of the Alpha 2 25/60 130. Have spoken to Grundfos today and they are saying they can't help "go back to the OEM" Polypipe the OEM are saying the Alpha 2 15/60 will fit. I'm saying if the Alpha 2 15/60 does not have 1.5" connection then it will not fit. Can anybody make sense of the whole situation.

So you must be in ROI then. I am afraid most of the guys here are mainland.

 

[bmwamac]

No I'm in England mate Chesterfield.

 

[DirksPlumbing]

No I'm in England mate Chesterfield.

Who is the stockist of 15/50(60) with 1" connectors near you then and do they stock 1" pump valves too? Not seen them on mainland in any shelf at all.
Have a run over to your next PlumbCenter/Grahams/CityPlumbing/... and ask them for the price of a Alpa 2L 15/60. Surely they will be able too to show you the required pump valve too and should it be 1" then please post the parts number for it here just in case one of us would come across the need of it one day.

 

[bmwamac]

DirksPlumbing, I did as you suggested and the 15/60 has the 1.5" connections. Thanks for your input and problem solved, why Grundfos make it so hard to gain literature I never know.

 

[DirksPlumbing]

DirksPlumbing, I did as you suggested and the 15/60 has the 1.5" connections. Thanks for your input and problem solved, why Grundfos make it so hard to gain literature I never know.

I would not blame Grundfos in general. Just Grundfos UK seems to be a bit left behind. For further informations I have to visit the german web page regularly as they have all the toys on and all the infos as well.
The UK page for the installer got possibly less information then the german page for the public customer.