Has my friend been Ripped off ?or is this fair ?

[big kenneth]

Hello just joined and my 1st post on here .

My friend has had a new combi boiler fitted then asked the same engineer a few months later to install 2 double panel radiators where the 2 single small panel ones were too small ,( they worked great got piping hot but there was just not enough output to heat the rooms .

So 2 double panel and a bit bigger in size radiators were fitted ,he refilled the system ,turned the heating on and after 30 mins both were stone cold ,so he turned off every thermostat valve off and waited ,both got slighly warm , then says he's got to go to another job and tells my friend to leave the valves off for another 20 mins then open them up .
My friend asked " what if this doesn't work?" ,
He replys he would come out next week take the radiators off and check to see if there is a blockage and if there isn't then he cannot do any more unless she pays him to put new pipework in or investigate further ,as his job was to " fit the new radiators and valves" and that's what he's done ,i'm fuming i've told my friend he's talking cr@p and its his job to leave the job with the new radiators red hot .

The heatings been on 2 hrs and 3 radiators upstairs are bouncing , but the 2 new ones downstairs one is stone cold and the other is warm at most at the top the other 4 downstairs are warm to hot.
To me the whole system needs bleeding then balancing .

So to all you heating engineers is it accectable to leave a job like this ? i don't think so ,but is he right in saying his quote was to fit 2 new radiators and valves and thats it ! .obviously when fitting the new radiators air etc has got in the system so surely when he refills the system he needs to bleed and balance them ?

 

[steadyon]

1. No plumber worth his or her salt would leave a system in this condition.
2. It is an implicit term in the agreement to do the work (verbal or written) that it will be conducted to a reasonable standard.
3. Leaving new radiators which don't work in place of old radiators which did could not in any sense be construed as work of even a reasonable standard.
4. Its a disgrace. I'd suggest your friend write to the firm giving them 14 days to correct the situation, telling them that if they fail to correct the problem he / she will employ a different firm to finish the work, and expect the original firm to pay. If they fail to pay they could be taken before the small claims court.

 

[Scott_D]

My friend asked " what if this doesn't work?" ,
He replys he would come out next week take the radiators off and check to see if there is a blockage

Ask him to return. I dont see there is a reason to be 'fuming' just yet

 

[big kenneth]

Ask him to return. I dont see there is a reason to be 'fuming' just yet

Because he said if he did return it would be to check that there was no flow problems with the new fitted radiators and valves and if there wasn't they would have to pay more for him to either fit new pipe or investigate ,yet the system was working fine before he came and replaced 2 radiators .

 

[SimonG]

He says she says.

Missing a lot of facts. The radiators have increased in excess of 100% of the original output. May find that they are fed off 10mm pipe that are over long. Fine for the smaller rads but not for the bigger ones. Hence struggling.

Maybe just ran out of time. It happens. Earliest he can get back is next week. Bulk of system working. Plumbers / heating engineers have lives and family as well.

Let him go back, he will probably get it sorted. Not quite in the 'knickers in a twist' time just yet.

 

[big kenneth]

First of all its my friend not me .

I'm not getting "my knickers in a twist "

you say let him come back and he will probably get it sorted but he didnt say to my friend "if i come back i'll bleed the radiators and balance them" he said ....

" if i come back all i can do is check the new radiators for blockages as my job was to just fit them " " you will have to pay more for me to investigate the problem "

 

[SimonG]

It will go one of two ways.

1. Hes a cowboy and hes fecked your mate over. Doubt it though.

2. He comes back next week like he said and gets it sorted.

Has he been paid yet?

I gave a potential issue in my first response. If it is something like that then your mate will potentially have to pay for pipework to be upgraded.

 

[Ben-gee]

If he fitted the boiler recently , presumably at least a cold water flush was performed.
He would have been reasonably familiar with the layout/pipe sizing of the system when asked to upsize a couple of rads. If he foresaw any problems doing that he should have flagged up potential remedial work needed. It sounds like a running out of time on the day issue, get him back to sort it - if genuine further costs, pay them but I suspect he’ll sort it relatively easily.

 

[Scott_D]

Sounds like an air lock to me.
Did the plumber supply the radiators and valves?

 

[big kenneth]

Update to this

he refuses to come out and sort out the radiator problem out but it gets deeper.

My friend finds out he is not gas safe registed and used his mates number to sign the job off
She didnt reply to any phone calls / texts
She called his mate who's number he'd used and told him she was reporting them both ,he said he was there with him and finished the job around 5pm, oh dear the job wasnt finished till 9pm at night and her neighbour lent him a halogen light so he could finish the outside work.

Obviously we knew they would make a story up saying they were both there etc but we thought no way will gas safe/ health and safety be that naive and thick to believe them,especially with 3 witnesses who saw everything ....how wrong we were !

The unregisted installer was reported to gas safe and the number and signature are not his ,
gas safe reply " he's not registed with us"

no sh/t sherlock thats why we are reporting him .

They send a letter out to him and his mate who's gas safe number he used about the complaint and gas safe get back to us weeks later saying.
"He said he was just helping and that the gas safe registed installer was there all day "

Well i never ! you don't say !
They were not going to turn around and say fair cop ,i've used my mates number and illegally intalled a gas boiler, punish us both .
So we reply saying we have 3 witnesses to say there was only 1 gas fitter there all day

gas safe say " but they said there were both there "

So you believe the non gas fitter and his qualified mate , but you don't believe us !!
how does that work ???

Health and saftey rang as well saying even if he did do it without a licence it was safely installed , to which i replied "you are kidding me!"
no
so i said i'm watching a few you tube videos tonight and going to fit boilers in my spare time and hung up.

So there you have it ,gas safe joke health and safety joke ,we are appealing

The tw@t who fitted it without being registed even has reviews on checkatrade saying he's done boiler installation.
" he came out boiler was broke he fitted a new one the next day" not the 2 lads came out *or ***they both done a great job ,Also another 2 reviews like that ,we sent screenshots of them to gas safe and health and safety , no still no joy ,

Why have gas safe why have health and safety if this is how they go on.

I really do give in.

 

[SimonG]

Update to this
The unregisted installer was reported to gas safe , gas safe are a joke " he's not registed with us" no sh/t sherlock thats why we are reporting him .

They send a letter out to him and his mate who's gassafe number he used and gas safe get back to us weeks later saying.
"he said he was just helping and that the gas safe registed installer was there all day "

Well i never ! you don't say !
They were not going to turn around and say fair cop ,i've used my mates number punish us both .
So we reply saying we have 3 witnesses to say there was only 1 gas fitter there all day

gas safe say " but they said there were both there "

So you believe the non gas fitter and his qualified mate , but you don't believe us !!

Health and saftey rang as well saying even if he did do it without a licence it was safely installed , to which i replied "you are kidding me!"
no
so i said i'm watching a few you tube videos tonight and going to fit boilers in my spare time and hung up.

So there you have it ,gas safe joke health and safety joke ,we are appealing

the tw@t who fitted it without being registed even has reviews on checkatrade
" he came out boiler was broke he fitted a new one the next day" not the 2 lads came out or they both done a great job , another 2 reviews like that ,we sent screenshots of them to gas safe and health and safety , no still no joy ,

why have gas safe why have health and safety if this is how they go on.

I really do give in.

None of this in the original post.

What about the two radiators that the original post was about?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Now imagine paying them around £300 a year plus the course every 5 years around 2k

 

[SimonG]

Now imagine paying them around £300 a year plus the course every 5 years around 2k

Or if you want a real laugh, look at OFTEC

 

[big kenneth]

None of this in the original post.

What about the two radiators that the original post was about?

The original post first line.
my friend had a new combi boiler fitted and got the same plumber to install some radiators

my update post a few minutes ago

she has found out that he is not gas safe registed ( this was 3 months ago)

I then state he refuses to come out to sort the radiators

Then say what happened when he was reported for an illegal installation

I'll start a fresh thread on illegal combi installation if thats what you want

But so far he has ruined a hardwood floor fitted 2 radiators ,1 that leaks and 1 that is stone cold ,and fitted a gas boiler using someone elses number , and he is on checkatrade !

 

[SJB060685]

The problem with the new radiators could be down to pipe sizing as mentioned above? It could also be just a case of bleeding and balancing, without being there its hard to tell. I suggest your friend hires a reputable engineer/firm that is qualified and genuinely knows what they're doing. By all means continue your pursuit of what is clearly a dodgy guy

 

[SimonG]

The original post first line.
my friend had a new combi boiler fitted and got the same plumber to install some radiators

my update post a few minutes ago

she has found out that he is not gas safe registed ( this was 3 months ago)

I then state he refuses to come out to sort the radiators

Then say what happened when he was reported for an illegal installation

I'll start a fresh thread on illegal combi installation if thats what you want

But so far he has ruined a hardwood floor fitted 2 radiators ,1 that leaks and 1 that is stone cold ,and fitted a gas boiler using someone elses number , and he is on checkatrade !

Updated after my reply though. Anyway.

Firstly forget the not gas safe registered bit. It's got nothing to do at all with the radiators and to be honest he must have done a good job on the boiler for your friend to get him back to do the radiators.

Secondly, get a n other person out to look at it, price to correct it and then write to original bloke, 14 days to fix or it will be fixed and chase him through small claims court also contact trading standards and place a complaint through them.

Checkatrade membership is no indication of being competent at your job. There are many fine and upstanding tradesmen on there and there are also some real dodgy fly by night merchants.

This has been going on for over 5 months, time to get it fixed and move on. Sometimes you just need to realise that lifes far too short.

 

[SimonG]

The problem with the new radiators could be down to pipe sizing as mentioned above? It could also be just a case of bleeding and balancing, without being there its hard to tell. I suggest your friend hires a reputable engineer/firm that is qualified and genuinely knows what they're doing. By all means continue your pursuit of what is clearly a dodgy guy

Hey up he's back. Hope you are well SJB 👍👍

 

[SJB060685]

Hey up he's back. Hope you are well SJB 👍👍

Health mate, not going into it here though 👍

 

[big kenneth]

Updated after my reply though. Anyway.

Firstly forget the not gas safe registered bit. It's got nothing to do at all with the radiators and to be honest he must have done a good job on the boiler for your friend to get him back to do the radiators.

Secondly, get a n other person out to look at it, price to correct it and then write to original bloke, 14 days to fix or it will be fixed and chase him through small claims court also contact trading standards and place a complaint through them.

Checkatrade membership is no indication of being competent at your job. There are many fine and upstanding tradesmen on there and there are also some real dodgy fly by night merchants.

This has been going on for over 5 months, time to get it fixed and move on. Sometimes you just need to realise that lifes far too short.

Updated after your reply ?

The first post of this thread states she had a boiler installed

Are you a wind up ?
How is a nurse supposed to know a good job from a bad job ?

She is taking the small claims court route.

5 months She has been waiting for replys from H@S and Gas safe, they have been dragging there heels not her.

And as for brushing aside and "Forget the non gas safe registed bit "REALLY !

A non qualified gas installer who is still installing and could kill a family and you say "Lifes too short" you need to take a reallity check and give your head a shake ! .

 

[SJB060685]

OP please don't discredit the guys above. You're new here, whereas I've been around long enough to know the guys above know what they're on about. Admittedly I'm an oil engineer and not gas qualified but I know the combustion process and the science behind it. I completely understand your concern, natural gas is a hydrocarbon and should only ever be touched by someone qualified and genuinely understands the process. You are right to pursue this further, the original installer is clearly neither qualified, nor understands the work he's undertaking.
The original problem regarding the new larger radiators can only be one of a few things mentioned above.
Your friend needs to hire the experience of someone/firm with a better understanding.
Please respect the advice given, bare in mind this forum offers free advice, advice which is often charged for.