Help needed :: convert to open system from closed?

[Spudney]

Hi All

I currently have a house with 20+ rads and a closed/pressurised central heating system (Firebird Kerosene)

I wish to introduce a "Green 30KW boiler stove" so that i can have a dual system

I see online that most say its not possible to have a boiler stove with a presurised system but some say it is possible with a bit of tweaking

Would i be better off tweaking the system to add the boiler stove or convert my current closed system to an open vented system and then add the boiler stove?

If i have to convert to an open vented system can i keep my existing Firebird kerosene boiler and will it cost me a fortune to convert and is it a big job?

Any advice much appreciated

Spud

 

[peteheat]

Hi & welcome to the forum,

When customers ask me for a 30kw stove I always ask if they have room for the wheel barrow to bring the fuel through the house (yes I sell them).

For what it's worth I have two of that brand in stock and will not sell them, my advice is don't buy off the internet only buy from a showroom where you can see what you are buying and know you will get back up if / when needed.

It is not possible to safely install a solid fuel stove to a sealed / pressurised system, if you value your life and the lives of your family do not believe everything you read on the internet especially from an online shop.

You should be able to convert your existing system to open vent that will allow the two appliances to be linked, there are many different safe ways of doing this, the best way to find out which is best for your system is to have a survey carried out by a competent person.

Yes you can keep your existing boiler.

Yes it can cost a lot of money.

Yes it can be a big job.

My advice is if you need a 30 Kw stove first establish that you have enough wood available from your own resources upwards of ten tonnes per year, solid fuel is very expensive to buy in.

If yes to the above consider installing a proper wood gasifying boiler with a good buffer tank, that way you will get the most out of your fuel and you don't have to drag it through the house.

 

[Spudney]

Hi Pete

Thanks for the info, if the Green 30kw boiler/stove is not great quality what make/model would you recommend in the 30kw range, i would prefer to do this job once so prepared to pay more for quality 🙂

Ballpark figure what does it cost to convert to an open system from a closed,

i know everyone is different but just a rough estimate thanks just want to have an idea so im not clueless when reviewing quotes

Spud

 

[lame plumber]

why 30kw, you could probably heat 40 rads with that, you need to do a proper analysis of heating requirements before looking at a stove that size, omho

 

[Spudney]

why 30kw, you could probably heat 40 rads with that, you need to do a proper analysis of heating requirements before looking at a stove that size, omho

Hi Lame

The specs on the stove "Green Stove 30KW" or most other 30KW stoves say can heat up to 20 rads and i have about 25 rads but can turn off 5 as not in essential places?

Where do you get 40 rads?

What would you recommend in the 30KW range?

Also back to my original question is thousands or hundreds to covert from closed to open central heating systems.

Thanks
Spud

 

[SimonG]

Hillandale stoves. It'll cost you a lot more than you think.

 

[snowhead]

To convert closed to open is minimal, if you are also installing an additional boiler as a combined system. Galv or Stainless header tank and some pipework plus loose the Exp vessel and filling loop.

And a "30kw" mutlifuel stove isn't 30kw for very long.
You need a wheel barrow full of coal, not logs and unless the room it's in is massive you'll have to open the windows to loose the heat to the room from the stove.

 

[Spudney]

To convert closed to open is minimal, if you are also installing an additional boiler as a combined system. Galv or Stainless header tank and some pipework plus loose the Exp vessel and filling loop.

And a "30kw" mutlifuel stove isn't 30kw for very long.
You need a wheel barrow full of coal, not logs and unless the room it's in is massive you'll have to open the windows to loose the heat to the room from the stove.

Thanks guys that's great so just to confirm its not big money to convert to open from closed?

what do u mean simong it will cost a lot more that u think? The boiler stove or to add it to existing system?

Anyone else recommend any other good 30kw boiler stoves?

thanks

 

[SimonG]

Adding it to the existing system. 90% of people think it's a fantastic idea. Then they find out how much it will cost to install and how much logs and coal cost. Then you don't hear from them again 🙂

As for converting from sealed to open vent, difficult to say about costs as there's a tank to site (suitable for solid fuel), mains cold feed to the tank, open vent and cold feed from tank to appropriate place in current heating system.

As for adding in stove, you'll need pipework mods to heating side and cylinder side, feeds to your heat leak rad and all the controls that go with it. Plus the cost of the type of system you decide to adopt. H2 panel, Dunsley neutraliser or thermal store.

 

[tackleburger]

What's the point in this exactly?

 

[Reg Man]

Get a Heatas engineer in who is qualified for wet systems.

I would consider having a thermal store so that the solid fuel side of the heating is seperate from the oil side. So seal system for the oil and open vented system for the solid fuel. In my view this way is much more controlable and more efficient. As the others have said, the stove size siunds a bit excessive. Needs to be calculated properly.

 

[peteheat]

Hi Lame

The specs on the stove "Green Stove 30KW" or most other 30KW stoves say can heat up to 20 rads and i have about 25 rads but can turn off 5 as not in essential places?

Where do you get 40 rads?

What would you recommend in the 30KW range?

Also back to my original question is thousands or hundreds to covert from closed to open central heating systems.

Thanks
Spud

Hi,

50 number 600 x 600 radiators. not many houses have that arrangement, my point being that radiators come in different sizes and configurations, single, double, treble etc

Any of the good quality stove manufacturers (UK & European) will not go above 20Kw in fact most stop at around 15Kw certified output, I have been offered stoves with alleged output of 30Kw yet the tappings are 3/4" (22mm).

Yes you can use one of the configurations mentioned however you will lose a substantial amount of heat to each boiler the basic requirements must be observed for both efficiency and safety.

I would not recommend a 30Kw stove honestly I don't believe they really exist, if you need that output fit a boiler designed and certified to deliver the required amount of heat at the right temperature to suit your radiators and heat your home.

There is no shortage of Chinese manufactured stoves and one Irish manufacturer who claim to make stoves that achieve 30Kw output, none of them have been able to provide me with the proper documentation or even explain how they arrived at the output figures.

The reason I was vague about the best way to link the systems is each house is as individual as the system used to link the boilers, bungalow, 1 1/2 story, 2 story etc all relevant to securing the required head to distribute the heat, i.e. not have some very hot rads and others that never get past slightly warm while the expansion is constantly tipping into the header.

Obviously you are into the thousands given the starting price of the stove, one thing I suggest you consider or ask yourself:

Why do stoves manufactured fairly local to me (UK, E.U.) with lower rated heat output cost so much more than the stove manufactured in China considering the shipping and handling costs have to be so much higher?

 

[Spudney]

Hi,

50 number 600 x 600 radiators. not many houses have that arrangement, my point being that radiators come in different sizes and configurations, single, double, treble etc

Any of the good quality stove manufacturers (UK & European) will not go above 20Kw in fact most stop at around 15Kw certified output, I have been offered stoves with alleged output of 30Kw yet the tappings are 3/4" (22mm).

Yes you can use one of the configurations mentioned however you will lose a substantial amount of heat to each boiler the basic requirements must be observed for both efficiency and safety.

I would not recommend a 30Kw stove honestly I don't believe they really exist, if you need that output fit a boiler designed and certified to deliver the required amount of heat at the right temperature to suit your radiators and heat your home.

There is no shortage of Chinese manufactured stoves and one Irish manufacturer who claim to make stoves that achieve 30Kw output, none of them have been able to provide me with the proper documentation or even explain how they arrived at the output figures.

The reason I was vague about the best way to link the systems is each house is as individual as the system used to link the boilers, bungalow, 1 1/2 story, 2 story etc all relevant to securing the required head to distribute the heat, i.e. not have some very hot rads and others that never get past slightly warm while the expansion is constantly tipping into the header.

Obviously you are into the thousands given the starting price of the stove, one thing I suggest you consider or ask yourself:

Why do stoves manufactured fairly local to me (UK, E.U.) with lower rated heat output cost so much more than the stove manufactured in China considering the shipping and handling costs have to be so much higher?

Thanks guys for all your help :smile:

After another trip to another stove store the sales rep pretty much agreed with you guys about not going with a 30kw stove so i think im going to change my mind for two reasons, one the fuel required for a so called 30kw stove (needing to own a small forest acording to the sales rep :smile: isnt that appealing) and then the fact that i can use my heating zones to heat downstairs with a 21kw boiler stove then switch to upstairs before bed then it makes more sense

what is a really good euro/uk/irish made 21kw boiler stove, enamel would be a bonus as the wife likes it

Thanks again

There is a lot more to heating than meats the eye :rolleyes2:

 

[lame plumber]

look on the aga website, if you want enamel rayburn is bees knees in solid fuel and wood on here

http://rayburn-web.co.uk/products/rayburn-solid-fuel-wood-series.aspx