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View the thread, titled "Home heating issue - Upstairs and downstairs" which is posted in Air Sourced Heat Pumps Advice Forum on UK Plumbers Forums.

Hi
I have a recent issue in that I can only get heat upstairs or downstairs but not to both. And when I do put just the downstairs heating on, the two furthest away radiators struggle to warm up even when the other radiators downstairs are turned down. Also, when the hot water comes on both upstairs and downstairs can't heat.

I have tried balancing and cleaning the system (cleaned all downstairs radiators via a hose outside and put in Fernox F3 cleaner) but that hasn't worked. I have also opened up the pump (Grundfos Alpha2 15-60 130) and ensured that it was spinning freely, which it was.

Two plumbers have come to inspect it - the first cleaned a few parts in the boiler along with suggesting putting in the cleaner to get rid of sludge as they thought the boiler and pump were working ok.

The second plumber suggested a stronger cleaner be used i.e. Fernox F5.

The system has a Spirotech MB3 fitted on the outflow from the boiler and before the pump - I know it is in the wrong place! Having figured out what it was, I cleaned it for the first time having to poke a cotton bud up through the hole to make the water flow out as it was so clogged up! It seems to be pulling black water every few days.

So, I am looking for suggestions on my next steps to resolve this heating issue. I have been thinking about the following options:

1. Just put Fernox F5 into the system and let it run for a week then drain.

2. Put Fernox F5 into the system and use a power flush machine.

3. Same as option 2 but use a magnacleanse machine to avoid extra pressure which might burst fragile pipes. This will be the most costly option as I will have to purchase the magnacleanse machine as I can't find any company that hires them out!

4. Replace the pump as even though it might be spinning freely, its strength may have diminished over time. I did notice that after agitating the pump the inflow pipes to the radiators downstairs did get hotter.

I am leaning towards Option 3 followed by Option 4 if Option 3 doesn't work.

Any advice is welcomed!

Thanks

Vik
 
Before this problem, how was your heating. Was everything warning up nicely from top to bottom? I'm thinking pump on this one.

What system is it?

I wouldn't recommend trying chemical after chemical though.
 
The two radiators not heating up downstairs have always been an issue but they did get hot on occasions. The others downstairs were a little cooler nearer the bottom. That's why I took them off to clean them through with a hose. Upstairs has been fine.

But yes, we were getting heat upstairs and downstairs and didn't notice a fall off in heat when the hot water came on.

Now if both upstairs and downstairs are calling for heat, downstairs remains stone cold whereas upstairs is fine.

When I switch the pump (Grundfos Alpha 2 15-60 130) to Autoadapt mode it just stays at about 5 watts although I think it has always done this but I could be wrong! In any case, 5 watts isn't enough to heat the house so the Autoadapt isn't working as it should!

It's a gravity fed system.
 
Last edited:
The two radiators not heating up downstairs have always been an issue but they did get hot on occasions. The others downstairs were a little cooler nearer the bottom. That's why I took them off to clean them through with a hose. Upstairs has been fine.

But yes, we were getting heat upstairs and downstairs and didn't notice a fall off in heat when the hot water came on.

Now if both upstairs and downstairs are calling for heat, downstairs remains stone cold whereas upstairs is fine.

When I switch the pump (Grundfos Alpha 2 15-60 130) to Autoadapt mode it just stays at about 5 watts although I think it has always done this but I could be wrong! In any case, 5 watts isn't enough to heat the house so the Autoadapt isn't working as it should!
I think its amazing how well informed some if our respondents are now a days
it makes problems so much easy to look at
chking
 
Aye 15mm which is good. But them alpha pumps can be too smart for their own good.

Please correct me if I’m wrong but are we suggesting that the system is riddled with black iron oxide and this increase in pressure due to resistance is causing the pump to modulate, which in turn is not providing enough KPa to overcome and therefore not get heat everywhere?
 
Please correct me if I’m wrong but are we suggesting that the system is riddled with black iron oxide and this increase in pressure due to resistance is causing the pump to modulate, which in turn is not providing enough KPa to overcome and therefore not get heat everywhere?

Probably! What's the best way to resolve the issue?
 
Have you or did the plumber remove the pump head and check the impeller was clean? I've seen loads of impellers and pump bodies that have been clogged up which obviously restricts the flow of water.
 
I’m reluctant to comment as I’m not an installer like SimonG and these other guys. I understand these things and how they work however I’m a humble hoover man (oil fired appliances). If the system IS infected with large amounts of sludge (black iron oxide) then a proper power flush is where I’d start, bare in mind this is not an hours job. The system should be flushed as a whole, then each rad individually and then the system as a whole again. Proper chemicals should be used and again larger systems could take considerably longer.
 
Have you or did the plumber remove the pump head and check the impeller was clean? I've seen loads of impellers and pump bodies that have been clogged up which obviously restricts the flow of water.
I did the same as this guy:


Not sure if that's what you mean. The impeller was moving freely both ways and the water coming out was clear.
 
I’m reluctant to comment as I’m not an installer like SimonG and these other guys. I understand these things and how they work however I’m a humble hoover man (oil fired appliances). If the system IS infected with large amounts of sludge (black iron oxide) then a proper power flush is where I’d start, bare in mind this is not an hours job. The system should be flushed as a whole, then each rad individually and then the system as a whole again. Proper chemicals should be used and again larger systems could take considerably longer.

Sounds sensible - I can hire a flush for the weekend.
 

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Home heating issue - Upstairs and downstairs
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