Ideal logic + combi 30

[Jacko]

Hello Guys
Help needed again problem on the above boiler. Hot water works fine however the heating comes on temp on display goes to 70-80 and the boiler turns off.
None of the flow or return valves get hot although the main heat exchanger does.
DV motor operates, even with the motor disconnected and the DV pin manually pushed in the boiler does the same..... what is causing the boiler to overheat and switch off????
Pump operates, tried another pump same fault.????

 

[Mastermixlee]

Sure the isolation valves are clear and haven't broken inside?
Could be blockage in flow or return too.

What's the system pressure reading?

And of course the regular question, are you a GSR?

 

[Riley]

He is GS we are just waiting for admin to update rights. Feel free to help or maybe PM to keep out of public view

 

[Mastermixlee]

Same as me then 🙂

Will help where I can and will PM if anything that is likely to involve delving into GSR territory 🙂

 

[Riley]

Not ideal I know chaps. We are trying though promise

 

[AMGasServices]

I’d check the system filter if it not full of muck, I’ve not worked on one recently but I think they may have a mesh filter in the flow or return valve check that.

I know the earlier models had an issue with the diverter valve.

Check the resistance on the CH thermistor and if possible link out any control.

 

[Jacko]

Thanks for your help guys. The flow and return valves are opened..... could they break in closed position if they haven’t been touched by the customer???
The water pressure is 1.5 bar.
Will open up and visually check the flow and return valves, will also check the built in filter if I can find it....... the boiler reaches temp and just a down so I assume the thermistor is ok....
Just never had a circulation issue like this where the flow valve doesn’t even warn up

 

[Riley]

As everybody now has their badge I have moved this to the relevant forum

 

[Jacko]

Hello All a bit of an update....... flow and return isolation valve are open on the boiler.
Then.... I pressurised the system to 1.5 bar and isolated the magna clean valves, I drained down the magna clean then when I opened up the top magna clean isolation valve the magna clean started to fill up, so I closed it, then with the top magna clean isolation valve closed I opened up the bottom magna clean isolation and there was no water coming through, both magna clean isolation valves work......is that proving there is a blockage in the system? Hence the boiler heating circuit overheating?

 

[Riley]

I should say so mate. Is it on return?

 

[Jacko]

Yes on the return........ just can’t get my head round why the boiler in heating mode does not get rid of some heat even if it’s 1 metre of warmth from the flow pipe?????

 

[Riley]

Does flow get hot on the way out??

 

[Jacko]

No the only thing that gets hot is the actual main heat exchanger!!!!!

 

[Riley]

Diverter is definitely shifting??

 

[Riley]

Sorry if you’ve said that already

 

[Jacko]

Defo shifting, I have removed the motor and manually pushed the pin in..... no apology required

 

[Riley]

So no heat transfer to DHW when hearing called

 

[Aire]

I'd say definite blockage, are you sure the blockage isn't in the magna clean? Opening the bottom valve and getting no water through would suggest either the valve itself is blocked or the blockage is close by.

 

[Riley]

Inclined to agree

 

[Jacko]

No heat transfer to Dhw.......
Both magna clean filters are opened, I removed the push fit magna clean and visually checked the bottom isolation valve

 

[Jacko]

Sorry both magna clean valves

 

[Aire]

No heat transfer to dhw, at the start of the thread you said hot water works fine. Are you saying now it doesn't?

 

[Aire]

No heat transfer to Dhw...
Both magna clean filters are opened, I removed the push fit magna clean and visually checked the bottom isolation valve

But if your getting no water through the bottom valve then that would suggest a blockage between the filter and the last rad on the system.

Actually, what side of the system is the bottom valve on? The return to the boiler or the return from the radiators?

 

[Jacko]

Sorry dhw works fine.....

 

[Jacko]

Return to the rads

 

[Aire]

That install hurts my eyes 😕

 

[Jacko]

System showing 1.5 bar magna clean lid opened bottom valve open, no water coming out of magna clean

 

[Jacko]

That install hurts my eyes 😕

Not mine, I only do maintenance

 

[Riley]

Sorry dhw works fine...

Sorry that’s my fault for not reading properly

 

[Aire]

I'd be tempted to cut the pipe below the elbow circled in red. Then check the pipe leading up to the magna clean. It is unusual for a 22mm pipe to block though. There isn't anything stupid like an isolation valve under the floor in the cupboard is there?

 

[Mastermixlee]

And the magnacleanse valve is definitely open and not blocked. Easy way to tell would be loosen the magnclean valve nut at the bottom and move slightly off the olive. I've had those snap internally... Though that was on the old ones to be fair.

 

[townfanjon]

One valve is turned off !!

 

[Aire]

One valve is turned off !!

he's got the cap off so it shows what he's taking about with the bottom valve not allowing water through.

 

[Jacko]

I'd be tempted to cut the pipe below the elbow circled in red. Then check the pipe leading up to the magna clean. It is unusual for a 22mm pipe to block though. There isn't anything stupid like an isolation valve under the floor in the cupboard is there?

I guess you forgot your attachment???

 

[DGT plumbing]

How about linking out the heating system entirely to rule out the boiler. I know it's work but you'd know for sure then.

 

[Aire]

Sorry, here you go

 

[Jacko]

Sorry, here you go

View attachment 37655

Yeah a good shout, but like you said I am thinking maybe someone has tampered with a gate valve somewhere or another...... although the customers swears blind they haven’t.... the weird thing is I went to the property 5 days ago as 1 radiator wasn’t working, I released the trv pin and it warmed up immediately!!!!

 

[Jacko]

And the magnacleanse valve is definitely open and not blocked. Easy way to tell would be loosen the magnclean valve nut at the bottom and move slightly off the olive. I've had those snap internally... Though that was on the old ones to be fair.

I pulled the magna clean pushfit fittings off and checked to see the valve open and close

 

[Jacko]

How about linking out the heating system entirely to rule out the boiler. I know it's work but you'd know for sure then.

Don’t understand sorry

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Arnt them valves on the boiler closed I’ve had a few where the handles round and don’t do anything

 

[Riley]

Don’t understand sorry

Think he means cut f & r coming off boiler and loop them to see if that alone heats. If it doesn’t it’s inside the boiler

 

[Jacko]

Arnt them valves on the boiler closed I’ve had a few where the handles round and don’t do anything

Removed both valves and checked they were both open

 

[DGT plumbing]

Don’t understand sorry

cut into the flow & return low down and link them together to make a very small circuit. If the link doesn't get warm then the blockage is in the boiler.

 

[Jacko]

By the way...... what a brilliant forum, the support is fantastic....

 

[Aire]

cut into the flow & return low down and link them together to make a very small circuit. If the link doesn't get warm then the blockage is in the boiler.

But that wouldn't explain why he's getting no water through the bottom valve leading to the magna clean.

 

[Jacko]

But that wouldn't explain why he's getting no water through the bottom valve leading to the magna clean.

Exactly....... Accrington Stanley lol

 

[DGT plumbing]

But that wouldn't explain why he's getting no water through the bottom valve leading to the magna clean.

Oh yeah forgot about that. Got to be a blockage in the system then. Most likely where Craig said in that elbow with the red ring round it.

 

[Mastermixlee]

Think you said you'd already done few bits of this but I'd approach that job in following way.

First walk the system and see if there's any valves on the ch circuit anywhere that could of been switched off in error (sometimes where it was a conventional boiler with cylinder in airing cupboard valves get left in e.g. Summer valve)

From there I'd drain the boiler and remove the 2 isolation valves and ensure they are 100% opening and that they opening all the way.

Then I'd follow the magnclean valves the same which again I think you've done.

If possible to identify last rad on return to boiler. Isolate and drain. Then attach hose or just into a rubble bag open the return side valve and see if you get the correct flow of water coming out. If yes then the fault definitely lies between the magnclean valve point and the return of the last rad.

Once identified there's a few options.

With system drained connect into the pipe at magnaclean pipe with a 22mm compression fitting (in place of the bottom magnaclean valve) going down to an 8mm copper pipe (or appropriate fitting made up to fit a footpump up to... 8mm pipe works perfect if you've got some.)

Then pump up the pressure and it can clear by pumping up to a high pressure. Obviously there is a risk with this... But generally the risk is a joint popping and needing re-piping. . But that's one of the other options anyway so I'd try this first after checking all accessible sections of pipework.

 

[Jacko]

Well I will try that tomorrow...... hopefully a positive update to follow

 

[ShaunCorbs]

What about the return filter in the boiler ?

 

[townfanjon]

This post beggars belief, unless I have missed something, no water is getting through the magna clean valve. ,!!!!! Start there .

 

[Aire]

This post beggars belief, unless I have missed something, no water is getting through the magna clean valve. ,!!!!! Start there .

He said he's checked it

 

[Jacko]

This post beggars belief, unless I have missed something, no water is getting through the magna clean valve. ,!!!!! Start there .

Both magna clean isolation valves do open...... the pictures shows the top valve closed, when opened water be flows out of the magna clean, the bottom valve is in the open position and actually opened but no water flows out.... I have checked it with the magna cleaned removed ....

 

[Riley]

Sorry I misread that too have you run a magnet down that pipe

 

[Jacko]

Sorry I misread that too have you run a magnet down that pipe

No I haven’t great shout, will do that tomorrow.

 

[Old Account]

No I haven’t great shout, will do that tomorrow.

Why not using a wet vac once you took the filter of the nuts? You could leave the top one closed bottom one open and and try sucking out. Once water is coming close off and re install the filter.

 

[Harvest Fields]

Are the flow and return iso’s Pointing towards you?

 

[Jacko]

Are the flow and return iso’s Pointing towards you?

No pointing upwards, they have been removed and checked to be in the open position...... zzzzzzzzzz sleep time

 

[Harvest Fields]

No pointing upwards, they have been removed and checked to be in the open position.... zzzzzzzzzz sleep time

On an Ideal I thought that they had to be pointing towards you for flow to be achieved?

 

[Mastermixlee]

So what was the outcome of this one @Jacko ?

 

[Jacko]

So what was the outcome of this one @Jacko ?

Still not working mate, system unblocked but still no difference, Ideal call out advised, I will make sure that I am present when they turn up!!!!

 

[Captain.rick]

Still not working mate, system unblocked but still no difference, Ideal call out advised, I will make sure that I am present when they turn up!!!!

Hey did they come out yet? Could the diverted body inside be jammed to dhw? Therefore stopping flow round heating circuit?

 

[Jacko]

Hey did they come out yet? Could the diverted body inside be jammed to dhw? Therefore stopping flow round heating circuit?

I was thinking that but I removed the DV motor and manually pushed in the pin fully but still no different....... the customer is not prepared to call out Ideal so we may never know?????

 

[Riley]

Hmmm seems daft.

 

[Captain.rick]

I was thinking that but I removed the DV motor and manually pushed in the pin fully but still no different... the customer is not prepared to call out Ideal so we may never know?????

Oh well if customer isnt bothered then they will call someone else (if not you) when it gets cold again

 

[Jacko]

Hmmm seems daft.[/

Oh well if customer isnt bothered then they will call someone else (if not you) when it gets cold again

True but if someone repairs the boiler then I will never know what was the problem and would have spent a lot of time for nothing ..

 

[Riley]

Shame. Hate a mystery

 

[Jacko]

So what was the outcome of this one @Jacko ?

Will never know the customer got another plumber in who replaced her boiler.... all that work checking valves on magna and boiler all for nothing, it’s not getting paid that’s the pain it’s not knowing what the fault was

 

[Harvest Fields]

Will never know the customer got another plumber in who replaced her boiler.. all that work checking valves on magna and boiler all for nothing, it’s not getting paid that’s the pain it’s not knowing what the fault was

Do you not charge for fault finding?

 

[Jacko]

Do you not charge for fault finding?

I do but on this occasion as I was not 100% sure what the fault was I didn’t....... I don’t have a call out charge I have a diagnostic charge. If I don’t the fault there is no charge

 

[Gary80gas]

Cant believe I just read 5 pages of posts that ended at the beginning.