Inspection Chamber & Stuck Rod Leading to Septic Tank

[taffston]

Hi all,

This is my first post as a new member. Thanks in advance for any help or guidance. Here's my situation...

We recently moved to a smallholding in a rural location. First time we have owned a house with a septic tank. There are two routes to the septic tank, one round the back of the house, one round the front. Shortly after moving in, we became aware that the pipe at the back of the house was seriously blocked (never seen anything like it, it was overflow the manhole cover). We rang the environmental service company that cleans the tank and they recommended I try to clear the block myself to save some money. I bought a rod kit from Toolstation and attempted to clear the blockage. I couldn't find anything actually blocking the pipe as I ran the rods down it, and there was no 'release' to draw the stuck waste back down, so I ended up manually scooping it out to at least clear everything from out of the inspection chamber. As I pulled the rods out, the last one (2m section with worm on the end) got stuck on a bend and despite my best efforts became detached from the rest of the rods.

I couldn't recover it myself, so phoned the drainage company and they came out to remove it and finish unblocking the drain (£100+). They used high-pressure water to clear the blockage and informed me that whilst they couldn't see the rod, it would have been blasted into the septic tank and they would remove it next time it was due for emptying. Two weeks later... the drain is blocked again. I make the assumption it is likely the stuck rod that is still there and causing the problem. I ask their advice on what to do next and they explain they recommend a CCTV inspection, but we will need to pay for the drain to be cleared again before the inspection takes place (a further £200+ for the CCTV and another jet clean). They locate the rod and push it all the way to a Y junction where the pipe to the rear of the property and the pipe to the front of the property meet as they enter the septic tank. At this point they pack up and say that's the best they can do since it's now stuck. They inform me we will now need to excavate the pipe at the junction and open it to remove the rod. I'm pretty annoyed by this point as I'm £300+ down and have nothing to show for it.

I have contacted some different local drainage companies to quote for removing the rod and have received quotes ranging from £400 - £700 ex VAT, depending on who excavates the pipe. To try and keep costs down I have begun excavating myself and have now exposed the Y junction as best I can, but found that the actual join is hidden underneath concrete and is right next to the septic tank itself.

My query today is - given the history above and the fact it was so difficult to remove an object from the drain before the septic tank, it would make sense to me to install a new inspection chamber at the Y junction for any future issues, as it could save a lot of money. However, given that the pipes join so close to the septic tank, and are under the concrete, does this still look like a feasible plan, or would I need to install two new chambers further back - one for each pipe? Additionally, is this a fairly simple job that I could attempt myself with some help, or do you think it's best left to the professionals? I have DIY experience, but not a lot of plumbing experience.

Any other thoughts or advice would be very welcome.

 

[kris]

Hi there mate and welcome,,, its an expensive lesson but when using the rods u must always turn clockwise to save un coupling and make sure the screw on the rubber is tight, you only needed to excavate because the rubber was stuck, its imposible to remove without excavating as it fills the whole pipe, you can never have too many access points on problem drains so im my experience go for it or certainly alter the existing and put in a bigger /. wider one as its quite deep, no sense have 2 next to one another , rather make one bigger manhole if possible, deeper drains are harder to get the rods down if the manhole chamber isnt wide, some of the drain cleaning companies think because they have a camera it justifies them to charge stupid prices , its unreal, hope you overcome your problems mate,

 

[snowhead]

I assume you know which pipe it's in as it was you that lost it?

For now, excavate around the exposed pipe.
Cut the pipe pull it to one side so you can see the rod.
Push it back up the pipe so the pipe can be moved clear.
Pull out the rod
Fit one of these to join the 2 ends back together, assuming it's 110 pipe; http://www.toolstation.com/shop/p25396?table=no

Leave the hole open for the time being untill its certain the blockages have cleared.

The pipes look like they join at a 45 junction right at the head to the tank, (under the concrete)
You may be able to fish the rod out from the tank side if you can hook the screw end.

 

[taffston]

Hi both, thanks so much for your thoughts and suggestions. Much appreciated! Snowhead, your suggestion is very helpful as it's good to know what to use if I decide to just focus on removing the stuck rod.

Just with regard to putting in an inspection chamber - I prefer to do this if I can since I've gone to the trouble to excavate, and as you say Kris, the more the merrier - however, do you think this is do-able given the layout of the two pipes etc.? What type of chamber would you suggest for something like this do you think?

Many thanks

 

[snowhead]

Given how close the junction is to the chamber a single Inspection chamber would seem pointless and you'd end up with 2 covers side by side.

I'd go for a rodding point in each branch, from each of those you could push the blockage into the Septic tank and work out which branch the blockage is starting in to enable the cause to be rectified if it still blocks.

For each Rodding access you'll need one of these (may be cheaper elsewhere) ;
Marley 110mm Angle Rodding Point

Also 2 short lengths of pipe and 2 branch junctions (note double socket, not triple) as you'll also need 2 of the previously mentioned connectors to be able to get the junctions into the existing pipes

 

[NickH]

Be a bit careful poking around in there. That looks like the lid of a Klargester type septic tank. What's it say on the lid ?
They're basically big fibreglass flasks, like this
2,800 Litre Clearwater / Kingspan / Klargester septic tank - For 4 people - 1 metre inlet invert - Drainstore.com
It's like an iceberg , much bigger under the surface.
When they are installed they are usually back filled with concrete to stop them floating up if the ground gets very waterlogged.
You can see in the picture the pipes enter the tank on the top of the round bowl, at the base of the "neck". On the opposite side is the outlet. The solid waste sinks to the bottom of the tank and the liquid flows out of the outlet and usually goes into some sort of soak away nearby.
What you don't want to do is dig around down there and break through the shell.
You certainly wouldn't be able to build a new manhole where the pipes join or indeed make one big manhole.
You need to find out where and why the drains are blocking. If there is something broken then get it fixed. If there is a drain run which is just susceptible to blocking, maybe too little fall or a badly fitted joint, then you need to put a manhole at a point which will allow you to clear it easily.
The pipes running into the septic tank look plastic so presumably fairly modern, what age is the house ? If an old property you may well have some very old drainage pipes and they are possibly damaged. Tree roots are a very common problem and will easily break through clay pipes. You can't feel them when you rod but they will cause blockages. Lots of other scenarios so your going to have to keep looking I'm afraid.

 

[PriestyUK]

I would just use a grinder and cut a small rectangle section out and see if I could pull the rod back then remove it from the opening I have created on top of the pipe then use to slip couplers to replace the section of pipe I created the opening on.

As for reasons for blocking a look see (Camera Inspection) should shed some light on the matter, possible root damage or a disturbed joint, poor fall towards tank or it could be what your flushing?

 

[joni os]

Drains overflow at the lowest manhole cover, whilst the cause of the problem could be anywhere downstream. Septic tanks are generally reliable provided affluent can be dissipated through weepier drains after passing through tank. If ground has high water table or is clay this can cause problems. If water is backing up in the system blockages will occur.
Avoid national drain clearing companies and their CCTVs. Cutting out a section of pipe near the tank is the surest way to recover rods and ensure pipe run is clear, Given the configuration of pipework entering most septic tanks claims that the rods have been," blasted into the tank", are fanciful and those making such a claim avoided.
Check drainage downstream of tank is adequate and extend if necessary.
Finally you are excavating in ground that has already been previously excavated and the danger of collapse is real. the sides of any excavation over 1200mm deep requires support, especially as you or others may be kneeling in the trench.

 

[taffston]

Hi thanks all for your advice. I'm going to have a local company come and provide their opinion and a cost to remove the rods and potentially try to add some access, even if it's only to one of the routes to the tank (the one that blocked before I tried to clear it with the rod).

I may still attempt this myself following some of your advice, or I'll post the suggestion from this company here to get your thoughts on it.