just been undercut!!

[REDSAW]

had a landlord (who's not actually that bad) call me to give a price for 18 x cp12's (boilers (baxi & w/b combis) & hobs).
he recons there all near or next to each other and rather than do one or two he wants a day rate for doing them as he says it will be more convienient and cheaper to do!!.

not worked like that before, i decided to give a discount on my usual rate but told him i would not do it on a day rate as i cannot estimate how each one would take, so i said £45 each.

he called back today and said he has another guy (which he does) who brings along a trainee to help (that he pays £100 a day too?) and will do them all in 2 days between them for £450!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

have i lost something here????:confused5:

 

[Leo21]

What a muppet, it's r soles like this that are ruining the trade and our weekly wage.

 

[Scott_D]

£25 each
I bet the case doesnt come off the boiler

 

[Leo21]

£25 each
I bet the case doesnt come off the boiler

Does it have to for gas rate and burner pressure?

 

[Ermintrude]

Does it have to for gas rate and burner pressure?

Yes you can't break it with case on. I like to inspect the appliance so I can ID it for a stat fault or atleast AR for fused spur being 1.1m away

 

[Destroyer2813]

Does it have to for gas rate and burner pressure?

Yes on the Worcesters

 

[REDSAW]

is there a short cut or are they not being done properly?
i normally do one in a 'hour n half' to be sure i covered it correctly!!=5-6 a day not 9!!!!

 

[Leo21]

Yes on the Worcesters

Fair enough, I dont touch em if I can help it.

 

[goz666]

I rent my house from a local HA. Came time for cert a few weeks ago and the lad came, meters outside so he did a TT. Came inside, only a boiler to do WB30SI....FGA in the top, readout taken...Job done 10 mins max. =I signed his sheet then told him I'm in the industry, he said that's all they're told to do now.
I asked about switching the gas off to check the boiler shuts down...nothing !! He said he subs the job off the HA and gets £25 a ticket and does between ten and fifteen a day and works six days a week, any knock on work he also does if he can....He earns enough to be VAT reg'd.

 

[REDSAW]

@~@

so i could retire in 5 years...is that legal or minimum?
what if you get chased back?

 

[goz666]

@~@

so i could retire in 5 years...is that legal or minimum?
what if you get chased back?

If this is aimed to me mate, he told me they've to check for any obvious looking faults...bonding etc but in my eyes hes skimming and doing the bare minimum, HA houses are pretty well maintained so I reckon he's realised he's on a good number doing them so quickly.

 

[Ermintrude]

You are required to inspect the appliance. To inspect the appliance you are expected to remove combustion chamber door and as a minimum check seals. BG lad went to a big room full of men wearing wigs when he fga'd ultracom and the burner had burned through and was making it's way out of appliance. This was what prompted the G10 kits by valliant group.

By men in wigs I don't mean that "lodge" where some forum members go and continually loose the game of sticky biccie - deliberately)

 

[mfgs]

If this is aimed to me mate, he told me they've to check for any obvious looking faults...bonding etc but in my eyes hes skimming and doing the bare minimum, HA houses are pretty well maintained so I reckon he's realised he's on a good number doing them so quickly.

If I were you I would be reporting him for not doing his job properly. At the end of the day he is failing to carry out all the basic required safety checks and could be putting peoples lives and property in danger. I also wouldn't have signed his sheet until he had completed all the tests required either.

 

[goz666]

In fact, he did actually do one thing extra and that was check for a 3amp fuse in the fused spur, he said they've been asked to check them all. So that took an extra minute or two !!!

Edited to add : I was also in last year when a different lad did it and he did the same, case cover has never been removed while I've lived here.

 

[kris]

Your better off sticking to your prices as i cant believe there is a HUGE price difference in cp12 costs. Ive always charged £80 . I used to be less and added for extra appliances but i found i would struggle to remember who i charged wot and so i decided £80 per cert. I get quite alot aswell. Guys who chop n change prices and drop as low as 25 is just takin the ****. Also corner cutting.

 

[CES]

See, this is the problem with this industry, it's led by greed instead of safety. If the HA paid a decent rate, then the guy would do a decent job as he wouldn't have to zoom around trying to earn a decent wage (or they would get a better tradesman), the checks would not be missed / glossed over, the tenants lives would not be put in the balance. It's a sad knock on effect which is something that probably will never be put right. Ok you might still get the pure yeehaws who will still not do a good job, but decent wages tend to attract better trades over the course. Just my opinion..

 

[Ermintrude]

Agree we charge same for a service or a cp12 as both entail same work in our books

 

[Leo21]

LLc,s as a rule for me are a waste of a phone call. I can actually picture myself rolling my eyes every time I get an enquiry.
They are the only job the customer wants you to cut corners or don't mind if it's done badly. I'm not one for more legislation, but it's required.

 

[hammers4spanner]

What a muppet, it's r soles like this that are ruining the trade and our weekly wage.

Well said

 

[lame plumber]

yep youve been undercut, but youll live to fight another day, someone may not

 

[bright spark]

I have a contract with 21 pottertons in apartments for the elderly. The last lad to service did them all in 1 day. I couldn't believe it. If he charged 50 yoyos a pop, that's over 1k. I went in on first visit, took off casing and the caretaker was wondering what I was up to. I think yer man gav them a rub of a cloth. Handy money for him but he was taking an awful risk.
anyway did you not ask d landlord what kind of job he was expecting for that kind of money.

 

[kris]

I have a contract with 21 pottertons in apartments for the elderly. The last lad to service did them all in 1 day. I couldn't believe it. If he charged 50 yoyos a pop, that's over 1k. I went in on first visit, took off casing and the caretaker was wondering what I was up to. I think yer man gav them a rub of a cloth. Handy money for him but he was taking an awful risk.
anyway did you not ask d landlord what kind of job he was expecting for that kind of money.

Thats just pure wrong and the engineer in question should be labled ID for not doing his job. The shame

 

[REDSAW]

I have a contract with 21 pottertons in apartments for the elderly. The last lad to service did them all in 1 day. I couldn't believe it. If he charged 50 yoyos a pop, that's over 1k. I went in on first visit, took off casing and the caretaker was wondering what I was up to. I think yer man gav them a rub of a cloth. Handy money for him but he was taking an awful risk.
anyway did you not ask d landlord what kind of job he was expecting for that kind of money.

certainly did!.
told him the wb needed seals checking and gsr cant do them correctly for that.

his reply was 'i only need to do what i have do do by law, get them checked yearly and have the cert'
so he wasnt bothered only on what he has to pay out yearly!!!!

 

[stevetheplumber]

fifteen quid each on HA contracts in london best ive seen is 16 in a day have to take a picture with the front off and their btalking about dropping the price to 12

 

[Toxic Ted]

had a landlord (who's not actually that bad) call me to give a price for 18 x cp12's (boilers (baxi & w/b combis) & hobs).
he recons there all near or next to each other and rather than do one or two he wants a day rate for doing them as he says it will be more convienient and cheaper to do!!.

not worked like that before, i decided to give a discount on my usual rate but told him i would not do it on a day rate as i cannot estimate how each one would take, so i said £45 each.

he called back today and said he has another guy (which he does) who brings along a trainee to help (that he pays £100 a day too?) and will do them all in 2 days between them for £450!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

have i lost something here????:confused5:

If this bloke has a lad who helps him then he cant be testing everything himself.........and if that is the case then the cp12 is void and he could technically prosecuted for falsifying a legal document........?

 

[bewsh]

I remember I used to rent a house with some friends, when I was an apprentice. Some guy came to do a landlords cert, WB 28CDI, range cooker and a DFE in the lounge.

DFE was AR - No ventilation.
Cooker was AR - no openable window/door direct to outside - Landlord has put a lean to on the back of the kitchen.

The guy didn't pick up on any of them. Didn't test any of them, literally just wrote the manufacturer details down and made up the gas pressures/rate - same with the boiler.

Then before leaving he asked where the meter was. I said it's under the stairs, I'll just clear the stuff out from in front of it. He said, nah it's ok, have you ever smelt gas, I said no. That was it, he left, no TT, no testing appliances!

 

[Ermintrude]

I remember I used to rent a house with some friends, when I was an apprentice. Some guy came to do a landlords cert, WB 28CDI, range cooker and a DFE in the lounge.

DFE was AR - No ventilation.
Cooker was AR - no openable window/door direct to outside - Landlord has put a lean to on the back of the kitchen.

The guy didn't pick up on any of them. Didn't test any of them, literally just wrote the manufacturer details down and made up the gas pressures/rate - same with the boiler.

Then before leaving he asked where the meter was. I said it's under the stairs, I'll just clear the stuff out from in front of it. He said, nah it's ok, have you ever smelt gas, I said no. That was it, he left, no TT, no testing appliances!

That was before I was qualified and just did them for my mate on the Q T

 

[kris]

That was before I was qualified and just did them for my mate on the Q T

I hope youve gotten better master ermis,,, can u smell gas indeed hehehehe

 

[Ermintrude]

Now I ask the rhetorical ;- you've never smelt gas, have u?

 

[REDSAW]

If this bloke has a lad who helps him then he cant be testing everything himself.........and if that is the case then the cp12 is void and he could technically prosecuted for falsifying a legal document........?

thats what i am pointing at..
recon he is next door doing t.t and filling out paper before g.s goes round to finish it off!!!!
thats the jist i get of l.lord

 

[Ch4 plumbing]

The firm I used to work for did HA work and I'd say about 80% of the time when out servicing tenants would ask why I had the boiler case off! why i need to work on the gas metre and why do I need to look at the flue in the loft!?

like said before, some guys walk in fill out paperwork and walk out!?

 

[JamesyGoosey1]

Here lies the problem people doing them for nowt, I have this discussion all the time with pals of mine in the industry about it if the money was decent where u dint have to race
round doing 10 a day then they would all get done right instead of certain "engineers" thinking there getting 45 quid to write some boiler details on a sheet and signing it!

 

[arran197]

I'm not surprised about what people are saying about HA sub contractors. We've had guys so bad we've had to go round and service the properties he did again properly. They don't last long. We have auditors go round checking their work. They have to be checked within a week of starting. We wouldn't get away with cutting corners and neither should sub contractors. I think our lads get £12 an appliance and £3 for a tt. Then 75p per smoke alarm tested. So some properties can be good money earners. But they need to be done correctly and from talking to the service guys, they do.

 

[Leo21]

I'm not surprised about what people are saying about HA sub contractors. We've had guys so bad we've had to go round and service the properties he did again properly. They don't last long. We have auditors go round checking their work. They have to be checked within a week of starting. We wouldn't get away with cutting corners and neither should sub contractors. I think our lads get £12 an appliance and £3 for a tt. Then 75p per smoke alarm tested. So some properties can be good money earners. But they need to be done correctly and from talking to the service guys, they do.

The problem with all these contracts is as soon as someone high up realises theres a decent wage to be had. They alter it, calling it a re jig or a re structure. The end result is the same. Less money.

 

[deandive]

I did HA safety checks for a bit, £18 a pop, bored me to tears, I decided to stop when I got a calous on my middle finger from holding a pen !

 

[AWheating]

honestly i think that it should be law that contracting firms can not pay pricework for safety checks. be it gas, electrics, fire, etc........

What supprise's me is many local authorites must know that the work is not done to a decent standard, but they insist on pushing for cheaper and cheaper tenders. I think there should be independant auditing of large landlords for such matters.

sadly tho money is the only concern.

 

[REDSAW]

honestly i think that it should be law that contracting firms can not pay pricework for safety checks. be it gas, electrics, fire, etc........

What supprise's me is many local authorites must know that the work is not done to a decent standard, but they insist on pushing for cheaper and cheaper tenders. I think there should be independant auditing of large landlords for such matters.

sadly tho money is the only concern.

all their bothered about is getting a piece of paper 'that the law requires them to do so', how they get it does not matter to them only the price that they have to pay out. because the truth is, who ever gave them the cert is the one in the spotlight, the one who will carry the blame if someone gets hurt.

i would take that one to gas safe if i were you, see what their comment is!!

 

[AWheating]

you are still legally responsible if you know its not done correctly, proving you know is a different matter of course.

 

[RoryD]

If this is aimed to me mate, he told me they've to check for any obvious looking faults...bonding etc but in my eyes hes skimming and doing the bare minimum, HA houses are pretty well maintained so I reckon he's realised he's on a good number doing them so quickly.

I worked as a contractor for a short period, and the number of jobs Birmingham City council fired out thru the contractors was ridiculous. I just couldn't not do it correctly. I'm totally afraid of being tagged by Gas Safe so have to do them correctly, that's the way I am. there were blokes absolutely banging them out and really, they were just not doing things like checking flues in lofts etc.., not servicing them etc.. My point is some engineers are not aware of what they could lose and just chase the dough