Just had an argument about tightness testing

[kirkgas]

From IGE UP1B

5.4 NEW EXTENSIONS/ALTERATIONS TO EXISTING INSTALLATIONS
Before commencing the new work, the existing installation shall be tightness
tested in accordance with clause 5.3.2 and any permissible pressure drop over
the 2 minute test period noted (see also Sub-Section 4.2).
Upon completion of the work to the existing system, the tightness test shall be
repeated and the pressure loss after the 2 minute test period shall be no greater
than that previously measured and there shall be no smell of gas.

This is how it should be done.

tamz you are a sook, she had to go and find the answer, as she keeps advising us where we can check info,

 

[kirkgas]

if you don't do a TT before you alter pipe then you can't prove tightness simple as really

you can if you are lucky and there isnt a leak to start with cause when you are finished there wont be one, however it is too late after you have finished if you find a leak when you are done

 

[GQuigley67]

true but you know what i mean, im not typing long answers today only got 1 hand lol

 

[kirkgas]

oo I love a quiz! The worst thing about GSR is trying to put in the impossible password to login, not sure how to change it to PASSWORD.
And Mr TP has gone out again so i can't ask him.

i dont think you can change it, once registered to use it you key in the 6 digit company number then the individual operative number, and if you are not the registered person you shouldnt be logging in to the inner sanctum where we the great of gas can keep our distance from the ordinary plebs of society

 

[kirkgas]

true but you know what i mean, im not typing long answers today only got 1 hand lol

yea, forgot you were getting operation, how did it go, must be not too bad if you are on here

 

[GQuigley67]

was only 10 minute op and wasn't sedated so im fine in a way, starting to get worried the fact my finger has been numb for nearlly 10 hours, local anesthetic usually wears off around 4 hours, waiting on nhs 24 phoning me back hope they haven't damaged a nerve maybe i'm being over cautious but i havent been numb this long before

 

[Mrs Tara Plumbi]

tamz you are a sook, she had to go and find the answer, as she keeps advising us where we can check info,

tamz is a Gem!
That's how I like information- facts, figures, references and research!!!

You know I'm not a heating engineeer, I didn't and don't know the answer to the original question and I will never need to. What interested me is that surely this is info that heating engineers should know and should easily be able to check up on. And yet it seems in this thread that they don't!

Actually I am sure most do. I'm also sure most heating engineers do know what they need to and do a very good job. And then there is a worryingly high number of people out there just having a go with out the qualifications or the knowledge. And crucially not even realising how dangerous thay are.

 

[Mrs Tara Plumbi]

i dont think you can change it, once registered to use it you key in the 6 digit company number then the individual operative number, and if you are not the registered person you shouldnt be logging in to the inner sanctum where we the great of gas can keep our distance from the ordinary plebs of society

I don't Want to argue with you BUT...! Only joking
Actually, despite being a pleb it is my number and password.
Well, I think it is? May be it isn't, may be it is Mr TPs? We do have other opperative too.
I am a director and we have only ever had one log in number, which is 5 digits and a password.
The problem I have with the password is the mix of captials, lower case and numbers.
I think i type them in all the wrong order and I don't think it recognises the numbers if I type on the number keypad. I always end up having to imput it all 3 or 4 times before I get in.

 

[SafeGasInstall]

this is simply cos you are not a gas safe register plumber 😛😛😀😀😉😉😉

 

[kirkgas]

I don't Want to argue with you BUT...! Only joking
Actually, despite being a pleb it is my number and password.
Well, I think it is? May be it isn't, may be it is Mr TPs? We do have other opperative too.
I am a director and we have only ever had one log in number, which is 5 digits and a password.
The problem I have with the password is the mix of captials, lower case and numbers.
I think i type them in all the wrong order and I don't think it recognises the numbers if I type on the number keypad. I always end up having to imput it all 3 or 4 times before I get in.

as director then the company number is yours, and as you rightly say and know you dont need gas quals to run a gas company (which is where a lot of the bother starts haha) im sure when i log in i use company 6 digit number and personal ID number, but cant be 100% as i dont go on it too often and cant remember just seem to do it automatically, as we get update info from various sources, you will obviously also know as director you have sole responsibility for ensuring you have a robust Gas Management System or Method Statement and that all your operatives are kept updated with all new reg changes, TB's and every other piece of blame that will come your way if one of the operatives comes a cropper, but thats why you get the big bucks and the company Jaguar

 

[GQuigley67]

i changd my password jst not my ID keep forgetting it though

 

[Mrs Tara Plumbi]

as director then the company number is yours, and as you rightly say and know you dont need gas quals to run a gas company (which is where a lot of the bother starts haha) im sure when i log in i use company 6 digit number and personal ID number, but cant be 100% as i dont go on it too often and cant remember just seem to do it automatically, as we get update info from various sources, you will obviously also know as director you have sole responsibility for ensuring you have a robust Gas Management System or Method Statement and that all your operatives are kept updated with all new reg changes, TB's and every other piece of blame that will come your way if one of the operatives comes a cropper, but thats why you get the big bucks and the company Jaguar

Yes right!

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

I don't Want to argue with you BUT...! Only joking
Actually, despite being a pleb it is my number and password.
Well, I think it is? May be it isn't, may be it is Mr TPs? We do have other opperative too.
I am a director and we have only ever had one log in number, which is 5 digits and a password.
The problem I have with the password is the mix of captials, lower case and numbers.
I think i type them in all the wrong order and I don't think it recognises the numbers if I type on the number keypad. I always end up having to imput it all 3 or 4 times before I get in.

i can conclude a few points from this
1,kirk,mrs tara plumbing and tamz are spot on
2,tamz has pulled .....LOL......😀😀😀😀😀

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

i am of course teasing,no offence meant just have a GSOH

 

[bob the plumber]

Second post in as many days.
Just been in plumb centre and was earwigging on two guys talking about testing.
Now I'm a commercial fitter with domestic as well. Granted I have not used my domestic that much over the years but it does get used.

Now the way I was taught was the following;

Upon entering a building to do gas work you do the following:
1 minute let-by at 10mbar
1 minute stabilisation at 20mbar keeping at 20 for that minute
2 minutes at 20mbar.
Anything above 75mbar is medium pressure and requires a different test (this was where I got into conversation with them as they said anything over 82.5 was medium)

Any Drops at stabilisation are fine, any drops within 2 minute test need to be within permitted limit otherwise test fail and you need to find the source

You then do any work IE boiler service, then after the work do the same again.

Now these two guys argued with me for five minutes that you do only need to do a 2 minute test at 20mbar.
Any drop is fine as long as there is no smell of gas.
Also that doing a test upon entry is not needed, and I was wasting my time.

Now somebody please tell me I'm right, I don't have my domestic viper with Me so cannot check, but I will be mortified if I have been doing it wrong all these years!

Honestly these lads have put complete doubt in my mind now, to the point that I'm worried about doing a test today!

YOUR 100% CORRECT, these lads by the sound of it are dangerous! any drop is permissable if you cant smell it lol, you are correct in what you say in that you are allowed drop on EXISTING pipe work if it is within permissable drop associated with the type of meter you are working from 🙂

 

[CMairiD]

From IGE UP1B

5.4 NEW EXTENSIONS/ALTERATIONS TO EXISTING INSTALLATIONS
Before commencing the new work, the existing installation shall be tightness
tested in accordance with clause 5.3.2 and any permissible pressure drop over
the 2 minute test period noted (see also Sub-Section 4.2).
Upon completion of the work to the existing system, the tightness test shall be
repeated and the pressure loss after the 2 minute test period shall be no greater
than that previously measured and there shall be no smell of gas.

This is how it should be done.

This one has been a bit of a bug bear with me. Imagine this ...

One appliance in the home, an old boiler, and it's going to be replaced. Pipework is extended to a new location and the boiler's hung and tested. From the install, you then get a LGSR that says, "1.5mbar drop over 2 mins, no smell of gas", showing the tightness test as passed.

I feel, given the scenario above, the installation has failed the tightness test.

The lines seem to be a bit blurred as to what is considered a new installation vs existing. We have existing pipework as well as new and a new appliance. I can (almost) see where some might consider this an existing installation because of the pipework.

Even if the initial TT showed a drop of 1.5mbar or less given the single appliance, I still believe you can't have any drop in this case.

 

[SafeGasInstall]

tt before install and having 1.5 drop there is no way I will fit a new boiler to it ,is going to be new gas run !
did safety check last winter and fined 3.5m bar drop ,two weeks earlier company fit new gas fire to existing pipework with
3.5m bar drop

 

[AWheating]

There are many engineers out there that do not understand the difference between an allowable drop with exsisting appliances connected and no allowable drop on pipework only or new work.

 

[kirkgas]

This one has been a bit of a bug bear with me. Imagine this ...

One appliance in the home, an old boiler, and it's going to be replaced. Pipework is extended to a new location and the boiler's hung and tested. From the install, you then get a LGSR that says, "1.5mbar drop over 2 mins, no smell of gas", showing the tightness test as passed.

I feel, given the scenario above, the installation has failed the tightness test.

The lines seem to be a bit blurred as to what is considered a new installation vs existing. We have existing pipework as well as new and a new appliance. I can (almost) see where some might consider this an existing installation because of the pipework.

Even if the initial TT showed a drop of 1.5mbar or less given the single appliance, I still believe you can't have any drop in this case.

if you have 1 or 15 existing appliances you can leave the 1.5mb drop, however this is where i encourage engineering judgement and understanding of why we are allowed the leak in the first place, ie through miniscule drop/leak as it is undetectable, if you fit a brand new boiler and carcass on monday you cant have any drop, but on tuesday when i go to fit the new cooker, i will test and find and be allowed to leave up to 4mb, as it is existing to me, BECAUSE i know what im doing i wont leave this as it is clear there is a major problem on an install that is 24hrs old there will not be microscopic leaks as the boiler is designed differently, but as per the letter of the law i can leave it

 

[tamz]

This one has been a bit of a bug bear with me. Imagine this ...

One appliance in the home, an old boiler, and it's going to be replaced. Pipework is extended to a new location and the boiler's hung and tested. From the install, you then get a LGSR that says, "1.5mbar drop over 2 mins, no smell of gas", showing the tightness test as passed.

I feel, given the scenario above, the installation has failed the tightness test.

You are 100% correct. It has failed as the boiler was a new installation.
The drop is only allowed with existing appliances connected. As the (only) existing appliance has been removed you now have some existing pipework and a new bit of pipe run. No leakage is allowed on pipework, existing or otherwise.
Hope i explained that right as i'm in a hurry to get to the pub.