Landlord Gase Safe Certificate

[Justice League]

So I have an annual Gas Safe Inspection done at a property I rent, it is done by the same company that provides my boiler cover, they usually call and book the time themselves. However the Engineer who deals with this has left and a new Engineer cannot now call out until after the certificate has expired - he said as long as its booked in then it should be ok. He will be calling out 12 days after the last certificate expired.

Is this correct?

 

[Burger]

It doesn’t seem right to me, they’re usually earlier if anything. I wouldn’t know for sure, i work directly for a social landlord and we try and work on a 10 month cycle. Someone on here might be in a better position to answer this, failing that ask gas safe themselves.

 

[Harvest Fields]

Should be done before to be honest. But sometimes you do get access issues and if it one of the big companies they normally get a little more flexibility (this may have changed)

 

[Justice League]

Well last year it was done on time. Was given a window 1-5pm but the tenant had popped out even though they said they were home and luckily I was nearby to stall the Gas Engineer long enough for the tenant to return.

 

[OffshoreGas]

It’s a criminal offence to rent a property without a landlords certificate. I’ve never seen anything about it being “as soon as practicable” etc. My understanding is you get 12 months and that’s it.

In addition to criminal/civil prosecution you risk invalidating you’re insurance.

Personally I’d ring round a few local firms and find one that can do ASAP.

Maybe consider doing it every 11 months to avoid in the future, a pain/extra expense you don’t need I know.

 

[centralheatking]

I also understand that it might not be every 12 months BUT it must be carried out at EVERY change of tenancy regardless of occupation period. So if tenant bails out after a month eg it MUST be carried out again ....Centralheatking

 

[OffshoreGas]

Well last year it was done on time. Was given a window 1-5pm but the tenant had popped out even though they said they were home and luckily I was nearby to stall the Gas Engineer long enough for the tenant to return.

Tenants are a nightmare, unfortunately the legal responsibility is on the landlord. If you use a letting agent they may be willing to organise/provide access.

I also understand that it might not be every 12 months BUT it must be carried out at EVERY change of tenancy regardless of occupation period. So if tenant bails out after a month eg it MUST be carried out again ..Centralheatking

My understanding was a new tenant must be provided with a copy of the landlords certificate within 28 days of occupancy. I’ve never seen it written a new landlords certificate was required for each tenant.

How would that work with holiday let’s etc? Obviously not quite the same as an AST.

I believe it’s got to be displayed in a property with rental periods less than 28 days.

It’s stuff like this that made me jack BTL property.

 

[centralheatking]

No gas in my holiday lets chking holiday lets do have to perform to many legal checks however.

 

[OffshoreGas]

No gas in my holiday lets chking

Don’t blame you for that.

Have you got a reference for the change of tenancy thing? Always keen to learn/clarify.

 

[centralheatking]

Don’t blame you for that.

Have you got a reference for the change of tenancy thing? Always keen to learn/clarify.

I will check...a British Gas fella told me yesterday I will check

 

[OffshoreGas]

I will check...a British Gas fella told me yesterday I will check

Much appreciated, always good to know these things.

 

[centralheatking]

He is correct section 21 a new certificate must be provided at the start of every new tenancy according to my reading of it and anyway who cares as the in coming tenant pays as part of their start fees
chking

Read this please in fact it is essential that a qualified gsr MUST visit vacated rental before new tenant takes up to check all is safe and no modifications or damage is present. Effectively this means a new certificate but is not a legal requirement but makes economic sense as it saves a second visit within the first year of the tenancy.
centralheatking

 

[Justice League]

He is correct section 21 a new certificate must be provided at the start of every new tenancy according to my reading of it and anyway who cares as the in coming tenant pays as part of their start fees
chking

Read this please in fact it is essential that a qualified gsr MUST visit vacated rental before new tenant takes up to check all is safe and no modifications or damage is present. Effectively this means a new certificate but is not a legal requirement but makes economic sense as it saves a second visit within the first year of the tenancy.
centralheatking

I thought you cannot charge the tenant for these fees with the new laws that have come into force.

I am down to just the boiler and gas cooker - I removed all gas fires a while back.

Makese sense for short term lets to be free of any gas. Then how do you heat the home? Electric boilers?

 

[OffshoreGas]

He is correct section 21 a new certificate must be provided at the start of every new tenancy according to my reading of it and anyway who cares as the in coming tenant pays as part of their start fees
chking

Read this please in fact it is essential that a qualified gsr MUST visit vacated rental before new tenant takes up to check all is safe and no modifications or damage is present. Effectively this means a new certificate but is not a legal requirement but makes economic sense as it saves a second visit within the first year of the tenancy.
centralheatking

Section 21? Isn’t that an eviction/notice of possession?

All I can find is, which I read as an in-date landlords cert, not a new one. Don’t disagree a flat shouldn’t be checked as part of landlords due diligence but not sure I agree it requires a GSR.

Gas Safety Regulations 1998 ‘a copy of the last record made in respect of each appliance or flue is given to any new tenant of the premises to which the record relates before that tenant occupies those premises save that, in respect of a tenant whose right to occupy those premises is for a period not exceeding 28 days, a copy of the record may instead be prominently displayed within those premises

 

[centralheatking]

I thought you cannot charge the tenant for these fees with the new laws that have come into force.

I am down to just the boiler and gas cooker - I removed all gas fires a while back.

Makese sense for short term lets to be free of any gas. Then how do you heat the home? Electric boilers?

fees as per new rules ....it will benefit long term lets as the increased rental gets spread.

So just disquise the figures in the increased rent thats whats happening. I am an occasional qualified surveyor/valuer of rental property and thats what the agents I work with do.

My holiday lets are all electric inc. in rental price. So in each of them both there are 2x panel convector heaters. An electric look alike log burner with fan boost and hot water is a cylinder with immersion on a set time booster from my friends at horstmann controls Bristol, then we have direct south/ssw facing solar voltaic panels which heat the water during the day while customers are out at the beach and they operate in winter pretty well. And an electric towel rad in each bathroom around 400watt
so if they leave it on who cares ...its also set but for 2 hours on boost and over ridden at 6.00am till 8.00am and same in the evening to come on and that is every day all year let or not.

Each is well insulated, 2x glazed and insulation under the floor carpets
lecky is never an issue .....centralheatking
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Section 21? Isn’t that an eviction/notice of possession?

All I can find is, which I read as an in-date landlords cert, not a new one. Don’t disagree a flat shouldn’t be checked as part of landlords due diligence but not sure I agree it requires a GSR.

Gas Safety Regulations 1998 ‘a copy of the last record made in respect of each appliance or flue is given to any new tenant of the premises to which the record relates before that tenant occupies those premises save that, in respect of a tenant whose right to occupy those premises is for a period not exceeding 28 days, a copy of the record may instead be prominently displayed within those premises

I am part time qualified and an occasional rental surveyor/valuer for a colleague when he goes on holiday or gets busy with student lets ...in and out so probably do 90 days x 5 per year = 400+ never seen a certificate on any wall ever. This is not a micky mouse operation but part of one of the largest rental outfits in UK with I understand 24,000 lets under management

 

[firemant]

I also understand that it might not be every 12 months BUT it must be carried out at EVERY change of tenancy regardless of occupation period. So if tenant bails out after a month eg it MUST be carried out again ..Centralheatking

No it doesn't. The requirement is for an inspection annually. There is no need to retest at every tenancy change, under the gas regs. It MAY be that a "duty if care" might suggest an inspection on a tenancy change, but that is different and a CP12 would not be REQUIRED.

There is no leeway for practicalities. So, strictly speaking, you would be breaking the law for 12 days. Nobody is ever going to check, though, unless something goes wrong, and that would be brought up.

It doesn’t seem right to me, they’re usually earlier if anything. I wouldn’t know for sure, i work directly for a social landlord and we try and work on a 10 month cycle. Someone on here might be in a better position to answer this, failing that ask gas safe themselves.

I am surprised, Craig, that you're outfit works on a 1o month cycle - as a Landlord I would not agree to that.

You can schedule the check for 11 months and forward date it to the original anniversary, effectively avoiding the OP's problem. If you do it 10 months, you "waste" 2 months on the ticket. Same as an MOT

EDIT: I missed a page full of replies, so apologise if I have repeated stuff.
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Section 21 of what?

Last year I rented 2 caravans on a Haven site. They both gad P12s on show. They are a requirement - unless you go to the effort of issuing a CP12 to every incoming occupier.

 

[Justice League]

No it doesn't. The requirement is for an inspection annually. There is no need to retest at every tenancy change, under the gas regs. It MAY be that a "duty if care" might suggest an inspection on a tenancy change, but that is different and a CP12 would not be REQUIRED.

There is no leeway for practicalities. So, strictly speaking, you would be breaking the law for 12 days. Nobody is ever going to check, though, unless something goes wrong, and that would be brought up.



I am surprised, Craig, that you're outfit works on a 1o month cycle - as a Landlord I would not agree to that.

You can schedule the check for 11 months and forward date it to the original anniversary, effectively avoiding the OP's problem. If you do it 10 months, you "waste" 2 months on the ticket. Same as an MOT

EDIT: I missed a page full of replies, so apologise if I have repeated stuff.

Forward dating. I was told it runs 12 months from the date of the inspection no forward dating to align with original anniversary.

What of those instance that the Engineer cannot get access and has to return after the certificate has expired? Who is at fault then? Still the landlord?

 

[firemant]

Forward dating. I was told it runs 12 months from the date of the inspection no forward dating to align with original anniversary.

What of those instance that the Engineer cannot get access and has to return after the certificate has expired? Who is at fault then? Still the landlord?

It is ALWAYS the Landlord. It is his responsibility. My LA, and I know a lot of others do, give 3 chances and then apply for a warrant to force entry.

Forward Dating: the rules were changed a couple f years ago. To exactly the same as an MOT. I month early, post date the required retest date. I month + 1 day, no forwarding allowed.

TBH, I don't know, offhand, if the "month" is 28 days or a calendar month.
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Forward dating. I was told it runs 12 months from the date of the inspection no forward dating to align with original anniversary.

I have just noticed that you are the OP. You may find this of interest. In particular Note 2 and the second last paragraph:

https://www.User PlumbersForums.net...renting-a-property/information-for-landlords/

 

[Burger]

I am surprised, Craig, that you're outfit works on a 1o month cycle - as a Landlord I would not agree to that.

You can schedule the check for 11 months and forward date it to the original anniversary, effectively avoiding the OP's problem. If you do it 10 months, you "waste" 2 months on the ticket. Same as an MOT

An extract from GSIUR 1998 regulation 36A - 10 months, we do it like that because of difficult to access properties. Hence no wastage, just accessed and safe properties.

Thanks,
Chris.

 

[OffshoreGas]

An extract from GSIUR 1998 regulation 36A - 10 months, we do it like that because of difficult to access properties. Hence no wastage, just accessed and safe properties.

Thanks,
Chris.

Cheers Chris & Firemant, reassuring to have my understanding confirmed by a couple of professionals. Wasn’t aware of the post dating, that’s a good one to know. Lots of good info for others too I’m sure .

 

[firemant]

An extract from GSIUR 1998 regulation 36A - 10 months, we do it like that because of difficult to access properties. Hence no wastage, just accessed and safe properties.

Thanks,
Chris.

Fair enough, Chris. In my head it was 11 months. In my defence, I have not been SE for 5 years so have not done CP12 s for private LL s since the new rules. None the less, I am a little embarrassed.

 

[OffshoreGas]

Fair enough, Chris. In my head it was 11 months. In my defence, I have not been SE for 5 years so have not done CP12 s for private LL s since the new rules. None the less, I am a little embarrassed.

At least it was on the cautious side, pretty much impossible to keep up with the quantity of legislation these days.

 

[firemant]

At least it was on the cautious side, pretty much impossible to keep up with the quantity of legislation these days.

I have criticised others about lack of tech knowledge,and it is important that we DO keep up with legislation. Some stuff is "open to debate", but I was fundamentally wrong. Even having posted a link with the correct info!

But thanks, anyway.

It IS very difficult to keep abreast of tech stuff. I think gas safe have a role in thos, which they are not fulfilling. The 10/12 mnth thing is a good case in point. Some guys are obviously not aware of it - and it may be that I wouldn't know if I did not read the Gas Safe Magazine. But I only see that as I have personal registration as well as the company number. So I get the mag posted to me. Employers get ONE copy, regardless of the number of engineers.

IMO, and at dire risk of repeating myself, GS should be emailing EVERY Tech Bulletin and change of rules to EVERY RGI. Once set up, it costs bugger all, and I really do not understand why they don't do it

 

[Justice League]

Thanks for this update as I am sure many Gas Engineers are just using the old system of 12 months from the date of inspection.

I will call the company again and ask them if they can bring someone out quicker. But will put it un my calendar from 10 months from now so can keep anniversary and avoid issues with access.