Hello. I would greatly appreciate some unbiased advice about a leak at my home. 3 years ago I had the house replumbed during a renovation and extension project on a fixed price contract for work and materials. This included installing an unvented hot water cylinder. We have always had to top up the pressure in the system - just a little every few months which we were advised to expect but recently we had rapid pressure loss so we looked for a leak. We found the leak which was from a push fit cap on an unused hot water pipe mistakenly installed (We had never intended a towel rail in the downstairs toilet room and it wasn't in the scope of work). The pipe and push fit cap was concealed behind a wall in our utility. The leak caused significant damage and we have had to rip out our utility room to access it and repair the walls. Please can you tell me if you believe the plumber who installed the system should meet the cost of accessing and repairing the damage caused by the leak and reinstating the utility. Is it normal/ good practice to terminate a pipe within a wall so that it cannot be accessed? Many thanks for reading this and if you have any advice I would appreciate it.
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Leak caused by push fit cap on poly hot water pipe
- Thread starter Concerned customer
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View the thread, titled "Leak caused by push fit cap on poly hot water pipe" which is posted in Bathroom Advice on UK Plumbers Forums.
Yes he should but good luck, you might be better contacting the manufacturer of the pipe as it's there product that has leaked but again good luck
Thanks Shaun and Simon for replying. It did strike me as an odd and maybe careless thing to do, to terminate a pressurised pipe inside a wall . Can you tell me if I'm wrong and this is standard practice? It would have been possible at the time to cut off the pipe in the exposed place in the attic where it feeds from the cylinder or to bring the pipe out of the wall and cap it.
Yes and no depends if you have a good guy or someone who doesn't care and just caps it off
Was the cap on the pipe correctly? Or was it just a case if the cap failing? If it was the cap at fault then no chance of him paying. If it was due to the cap being incorrectly fitted then you may have a chance, depending on how long he guarantees his work for.
Terminating a pipe in a wall makes little sense but shouldn't be any more likely to leak than, say, an unaccessible tee left in the wall. So I'd argue not the plumber's fault, provided the cap was fitted in a workmanlike manner, correct pipe support used, not a worn out re-used a million times old cap etc. etc.
Was the system flushed out properly following installation? I don't really see how you can flush a dead end, so perhaps some flux or oil has remained in the system and caused failure of the seal in the fitting? This would change things!
It could be argued to be his responsibility nonetheless depending on how long it would seem reasonable to expect work to be guaranteed for and I'm not going to discuss that can of worms.
The fact that the pipe shouldn't have been there in the first place would also change matters, however. If it was 100% clear that the towel rail wasn't going to be there then that's one thing. If on the other hand there was any debate on the matter at any point then, if anything, your plumber has provided you with free tails for a towel rail and perhaps to expect him to have drained and cut out dead legs was a big ask. Perhaps you accepted the tails being there and this was fine, until there was a leak? Not wanting to make any slight on either party's character, but I can see how verbal agreements can cause confusion in the reality of being on site.
Was the system flushed out properly following installation? I don't really see how you can flush a dead end, so perhaps some flux or oil has remained in the system and caused failure of the seal in the fitting? This would change things!
It could be argued to be his responsibility nonetheless depending on how long it would seem reasonable to expect work to be guaranteed for and I'm not going to discuss that can of worms.
The fact that the pipe shouldn't have been there in the first place would also change matters, however. If it was 100% clear that the towel rail wasn't going to be there then that's one thing. If on the other hand there was any debate on the matter at any point then, if anything, your plumber has provided you with free tails for a towel rail and perhaps to expect him to have drained and cut out dead legs was a big ask. Perhaps you accepted the tails being there and this was fine, until there was a leak? Not wanting to make any slight on either party's character, but I can see how verbal agreements can cause confusion in the reality of being on site.
My opion is its not good practice to terminate a hotwater pipe within a wall with a plastic fitting , saying that hundreds of Plastic fittings get installed every day in new build homes installed correctly and pressure tested the failure rate can be kept to a minimum although there will be failures as you have found good luck kop
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No one will come back after 3 years for free to repair or pay damages, first of all how does he know that no one else has been there and installed or repaired plumbing issues? There is not
Chance that you will get him back paying the damage. Unfortunately, it wasn't the right fitting to cap something off behind a wall
Chance that you will get him back paying the damage. Unfortunately, it wasn't the right fitting to cap something off behind a wall
Probably was the plumbers fault.
But how could you prove that???
And 3 years is a short time for pipework to give trouble, but is too long to now look for someone to get compensation from I would think.
People IMO get builders and plumbers to do new work, usually without much care or checks on the trades people's skills, honesty or work record. Often just to a price.
Then they go berserk when a few years later they get flooded.
But how could you prove that???
And 3 years is a short time for pipework to give trouble, but is too long to now look for someone to get compensation from I would think.
People IMO get builders and plumbers to do new work, usually without much care or checks on the trades people's skills, honesty or work record. Often just to a price.
Then they go berserk when a few years later they get flooded.
Still wouldnt do it shaun whatever service.
Thanks everyone. I'll provide some more details to address some of the uncertainties raised.
1) I did think I was employing a reputable firm. Good reviews on checkatrade, trading standards approved, references, ex- british gas plumber. It wasn't the cheapest quote and came in at £16.5k which didn't include any sanitary ware, taps etc.
2) there was no main contractor as I stuggled to find anyone who wanted to do the renovation bit at a fixed price
3) No one could have subsequently damaged the pipe or cap. It was hidden behind a wall. I have a video of us exposing it so that such an issue would not arise.
4) When we exposed it my builder was able to visably "click" the cap fitting upwards. This is on the same video.
5) The scope agreed with the plumber did not have a towel rail in the downstairs toilet. It was never discussed. I always assumed I couldn't have and wouldn't want one as the room is tiny and it would be unsafe with children. The room is 90cm by 160cm.
Of course there could be a he said/she said element here but I suppose that is always the case.
6) The whole system was extensively pressure tested before signing off. I'm not sure about flushing?
Many thanks
1) I did think I was employing a reputable firm. Good reviews on checkatrade, trading standards approved, references, ex- british gas plumber. It wasn't the cheapest quote and came in at £16.5k which didn't include any sanitary ware, taps etc.
2) there was no main contractor as I stuggled to find anyone who wanted to do the renovation bit at a fixed price
3) No one could have subsequently damaged the pipe or cap. It was hidden behind a wall. I have a video of us exposing it so that such an issue would not arise.
4) When we exposed it my builder was able to visably "click" the cap fitting upwards. This is on the same video.
5) The scope agreed with the plumber did not have a towel rail in the downstairs toilet. It was never discussed. I always assumed I couldn't have and wouldn't want one as the room is tiny and it would be unsafe with children. The room is 90cm by 160cm.
Of course there could be a he said/she said element here but I suppose that is always the case.
6) The whole system was extensively pressure tested before signing off. I'm not sure about flushing?
Many thanks
I agree I don't like pushfit where invisible (or at all) unless installed for good technical reason (e.g. need to shove under another room without lifting the floor). But hidden compression is no better.
So what am I supposed to do e.g. tomorrow when I have to fit a towel rail on copper pipe and connect to existing Speedfit tails that are under the floor? As discussed with the customer, having the transition fitting above floor level would look terrible, so I can't see the alternative, if people will use this poxy stuff.
I don't see an alternative, unless you mean it would be better to remove the deadleg at source, in which case I agree.
So what am I supposed to do e.g. tomorrow when I have to fit a towel rail on copper pipe and connect to existing Speedfit tails that are under the floor? As discussed with the customer, having the transition fitting above floor level would look terrible, so I can't see the alternative, if people will use this poxy stuff.
I don't see an alternative, unless you mean it would be better to remove the deadleg at source, in which case I agree.
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