Leak in customer house.

[Ryooo]

Hi what's the best advice in dealing with a leak in a customers house?

1. Stripped out bathroom suite, installed 1st fix shower pipes in stud wall.
2. Turned water on, cheeked all joints.
3. Show customer completed works. Happy with job and paid me
4. Get a phone call 3 days later saying there is a leak. I get him to discuss over the phone. He idtenifies it as the shower pipes, precisely the speed fit cap I've capped the end off with. Job done. Call me back later to say its not its the soldered elbow at the wall.
5. I arrange to go there a couple days later, call him on the day before no answer. Texts me in the middle night saying he has forgot to leave me a key. Can I come the following day?
6. The following day I get shingles confirmed and decided to take a few day off. He is now not happy.
7. After taking two days off, I make contact. He has now fixed my leak, cracked on with the job because he could not wait and sent me an estimated damage cost of £350.
8. Try to resolve over messages, he lift the water on while property was empty, no one went to house till 2 days after plumbing work was done etc
Now it's getting pretty heated.

To summarise, this is my first unhappy customer. I went self employed in May. I have insurance etc. He wanted the job done cheap as chips. He was plumbing in the kitchen sink to a 1st year level. One of his DIY moments could have caused this.

What is the correct procedure you experienced guys go through when this sort of things happened?

Cheers Ryan

 

[oz-plumber]

To summarise, this is my first unhappy customer.
- I went self employed in May.
- I have insurance etc.
- He wanted the job done cheap as chips.
- He was plumbing in the kitchen sink to a 1st year level.

What is the correct procedure you experienced guys go through when this sort of things happened?

Cheers Ryan

Those point are all that really matters.
You're new to being self employed - be prepared for more of it.

If you want some advice from someone who has been in the game for almost 30 years.

You mentioned that he wants £350.00 from you for damages.
Even if my insurance excess was £500.00 I would put it through insurance.

Wipe you hands in regards to the job and customer, let the Insurance company deal with him.

And learn from the experience!!!!!

 

[Harvest Fields]

You offered to go back. Have been polite and he cancelled then got it fixed without giving you the chance to go back?

 

[Aire]

How's one of his diy moments going to cause one of your soldered joints to leak? It's ok getting defensive because your being pursued for money but at the end of the day it is your fault. You arranged to go back a few days later, in that time did you advise the customer to turn off the water? What was the hold up in going back (prior to shingles diagnosis)? I don't know about others on here, but if I get a call saying I've got a leak, I go that day.

 

[Millsy 82]

As Craig has said if someone phones me up and says they have a leak on potentially my work I'm out there that day. Just to try and stop things from getting worse ceilings down etc.

Do you know what damage was caused? Have you got or has he sent photos of any damage or is it your word against his?

Personally I wouldnt get insurance involved for such a small amount as your insurance will go up loads next year.

 

[Harvest Fields]

The customer cancelled the appointment not him mate? It was a leak on his joint? As far as he was told. But never actually saw that. It might not have been and the custard might be trying to pull a fast one. Who knows?

 

[Aire]

The customer cancelled the appointment not him mate? It was a leak on his joint? As far as he was told. But never actually saw that. It might not have been and the custard might be trying to pull a fast one. Who knows?

Op said he arranged to go a couple of days later and that's when the customer forgot to leave the key. Why the initial delay? Would you leave a customer a couple days with a leak you've caused?

 

[Burger]

Op said he arranged to go a couple of days later and that's when the customer forgot to leave the key. Why the initial delay? Would you leave a customer a couple days with a leak you've caused?

Could be the customer delaying? If it were me I would like to go out same day, but you don’t know the customers circumstances. Op mentioned the house was empty. There’s also no proof it’s his fault, Circumstantial if you ask me. 😵

 

[Aire]

Could be the customer delaying? If it were me I would like to go out same day, but you don’t know the customers circumstances. Op mentioned the house was empty. There’s also no proof it’s his fault, Circumstantial if you ask me. 😵

Could be the customer delaying, which is why I asked him what the delay was rather than jump to conclusions. I would also agree that I would want eyes on sight to prove whether the leak was mine or not before accepting responsibility for the damage.

 

[Burger]

Could be the customer delaying, which is why I asked him what the delay was rather than jump to conclusions. I would also agree that I would want eyes on sight to prove whether the leak was mine or not before accepting responsibility for the damage.

Totally agree, no agree button yet and post has to be longer than 5 words.

 

[JKG]

I cannot believe nobody thought to turn the water off. I would want proof that I was responsible for the leak before going any further. Your insurance company will be asking for the same if you do decide to go down that route

 

[WC1]

I'd give him 350, smile and walk away, your reputation is worth more than 350. You need to learn (very quickly ) which jobs and customers to walk away from. Spend the time you're not on the tools doing the books, advertising, leafleting etc. Keep your chin up, keep doing good work at a reasonable price and it'll all come good.

 

[Stu-B]

That’s the wonderful world of the self employed, put it down to experience and get on with the rest of your jobs.
FWIW, if a customer reports a leak on a job I’ve done or am halfway through, I insist on going to look there and then.... next time though eh 🙂

 

[Dunlopplumbing]

Fortunately I have never had this sort of problem. I have had a few leaks in my 40 years, but managed to get back quickly enough to sort them out to the client's satisfaction.
This sounds to me like the client who is obviously upset about the situation, should not have gone ahead and made the repair himself, expecting to be paid for it. This sort of disagreement will never be solved to the satisfaction of all concerned.
In the end if it were to go to court, it would come down to the wonderful word "reasonable". You gave him the opportunity of a time to repair, you were also unwell, therefore unavailable later, is that unreasonable? Did the leak leave him without water in the house? if so, a judge would probably decide you did not attend soon enough, if on the other hand, he still had water elsewhere and was able to isolate the leak, then they would probably judge that you acted reasonably.
Even if you just couldn't attend because of other commitments, he would have needed to inform you that if you did not attend, that he would go elsewhere and invoice you for any reasonable charges made. I would go with the reasonable opportunity argument, and put it down to experience.
If you want to build-up a loyal customer base, you need to bend over backwards to keep clients happy. That said, there are some people out there, who no matter how well you do your job, will never be happy. It is difficult but you have to just suck it up sometimes and move on.

 

[WC1]

People who want it dirt cheap will always feel they overpaid. F (forget) them. 😉

 

[Sharp Point]

Totally agree, no agree button yet and post has to be longer than 5 words.

Yep, I noticed that. If I’m grumpy, I maybe can’t be arsed to type five words. Another thing that needs to be addressed 🙂

 

[firemant]

Firstly, a punter wanting a job as cheap as chips is no surprise. I have never gone to a garage and said "fix my car, I don't care what yo bill me" !
Never let the punter dictate terms - to a CAC customer, just say that "I need to charge x amount, and that is my quotation. feel free to look around". don't let their problems become YOUR problem. That said, I would wager that most of us found this aspect tough when starting out.

Secondly, these days one would expect him to have some video evidence of the leak. And perhaps you should have suggested it?

Thirdly, don't leave an alleged leak for 2 days -that is madness, IMO

Fourthly, where did £350 com from? Is that HIS time, or did he get someone else in? And were you supposed to return for further work?

 

[Ryooo]

You offered to go back. Have been polite and he cancelled then got it fixed without giving you the chance to go back?

On the day he called to say there was a leak it was a Friday. I was scheduled to go back on the Tuesday. It was on the Wednesday I cancel.

 

[Ryooo]

You offered to go back. Have been polite and he cancelled then got it fixed without giving you the chance to go back?

Yeah I contacted him last night after last speaking on Wednesday. He said he's fixed it himself but now the showers pipes are too short. I can only imagine cut the soldered elbow off and most likely used compression.

 

[Ryooo]

How's one of his diy moments going to cause one of your soldered joints to leak? It's ok getting defensive because your being pursued for money but at the end of the day it is your fault. You arranged to go back a few days later, in that time did you advise the customer to turn off the water? What was the hold up in going back (prior to shingles diagnosis)? I don't know about others on here, but if I get a call saying I've got a leak, I go that day.

Yeah advised customer to turn off water. His damages are... In his words

Cabinet door £30
Cabinet £30
Gloss £22
Lino £182
Plwood £94

All damage is in kitchen.

 

[Ryooo]

How's one of his diy moments going to cause one of your soldered joints to leak? It's ok getting defensive because your being pursued for money but at the end of the day it is your fault. You arranged to go back a few days later, in that time did you advise the customer to turn off the water? What was the hold up in going back (prior to shingles diagnosis)? I don't know about others on here, but if I get a call saying I've got a leak, I go that day.

I know what you are saying about it being my leak and definitely need to be more proactive in attending. Thanks

 

[Ryooo]

Op said he arranged to go a couple of days later and that's when the customer forgot to leave the key. Why the initial delay? Would you leave a customer a couple days with a leak you've caused?

He was fine, house was empty. It was on a Friday leak discovered, I was scheduled to go back on Tuesday. Water was off

 

[ShaunCorbs]

upto you but you have two choices use your insurance or pay

as its your fault you dont have much to stand on

 

[Ryooo]

That’s the wonderful world of the self employed, put it down to experience and get on with the rest of your jobs.
FWIW, if a customer reports a leak on a job I’ve done or am halfway through, I insist on going to look there and then.. next time though eh 🙂

Yeah lesson learned cheers mate

 

[Harvest Fields]

I would want Proof it was my work that was faulty. If it was then fine but if not then no.

 

[Ryooo]

Okay looking like I'm going to havet

Firstly, a punter wanting a job as cheap as chips is no surprise. I have never gone to a garage and said "fix my car, I don't care what yo bill me" !
Never let the punter dictate terms - to a CAC customer, just say that "I need to charge x amount, and that is my quotation. feel free to look around". don't let their problems become YOUR problem. That said, I would wager that most of us found this aspect tough when starting out.

Secondly, these days one would expect him to have some video evidence of the leak. And perhaps you should have suggested it?

Thirdly, don't leave an alleged leak for 2 days -that is madness, IMO

Fourthly, where did £350 com from? Is that HIS time, or did he get someone else in? And were you supposed to return for further work?

Leak was left for 2 days as he never went to the property. Water was turned off until I was scheduled to return.

Yes a bathroom suite and boiler serve.

 

[JKG]

It’s sounding like you are at fault luckily it’s only £350 it could have been a lot worse. We’ve all been there it’s your reputation and pride that takes the biggest blow.
Pay the £350 dust yourself off and move on
Lesson learnt here

 

[Ryooo]

How's one of his diy moments going to cause one of your soldered joints to leak? It's ok getting defensive because your being pursued for money but at the end of the day it is your fault. You arranged to go back a few days later, in that time did you advise the customer to turn off the water? What was the hold up in going back (prior to shingles diagnosis)? I don't know about others on here, but if I get a call saying I've got a leak, I go that day.

Plasterer was in on the F

It’s sounding like you are at fault luckily it’s only £350 it could have been a lot worse. We’ve all been there it’s your reputation and pride that takes the biggest blow.
Pay the £350 dust yourself off and move on
Lesson learnt here

Was is the lesson though, in terms of soldered joints holding then failing a day later. He called my work sub par, but was happy inspecting and happy to pay.

 

[Harvest Fields]

Can I ask why you are all just telling him to roll over? This makes no sense.

 

[Scott_D]

Have you been to have a look at the damage and cause?
Get some pictures for your insurance company etc

 

[Ryooo]

Have you been to have a look at the damage and cause?
Get some pictures for your insurance company etc

Not yet, this all started last night when I messaged last to say I could come tomorrow and could he leave a key. I have asked if he has fixed the leak does he have the part and pictures/video. No reply yet.

 

[Scott_D]

Has he paid you for the work done and what was the job value?
Or does he want it for free and £350 for his troubles.

 

[Ryooo]

Has he paid you for the work done and what was the job value?
Or does he want it for free and £350 for his troubles.

Yes he has paid me £140 and £60 for materials. Job value was a bathroom suite and boiler service

 

[Millsy 82]

I know this isn't about pricing but is that £140 for 1st fixing a bathroom suite?

 

[Scott_D]

I know this isn't about pricing but is that £140 for 1st fixing a bathroom suite?

And a boiler service as well?

 

[Millsy 82]

And a boiler service as well?

What! 😱😱😱😱 If that's right go and work for a company you will earn twice as much.

 

[Ryooo]

I know this isn't about pricing but is that £140 for 1st fixing a bathroom suite?

No it was only for 4 hours labour (35 per hour)

 

[Ryooo]

And a boiler service as well?

No service, just 4 hours labour.

 

[Harvest Fields]

Yes he has paid me £140 and £60 for materials. Job value was a bathroom suite and boiler service

You say a boiler service here.

 

[Stu-B]

Not yet, this all started last night when I messaged last to say I could come tomorrow and could he leave a key. I have asked if he has fixed the leak does he have the part and pictures/video. No reply yet.

In the opening post and post #19 you say he’s fixed the leak, you also says he’s got on with the job which was the reason why I said just chalk it down to experience and move on, really because there’s no real evidence of a leak apart from the damage, but now you’re saying he doesn’t have the part to fix the leak.
Plus, all that damage from a small solder leak? cabinets and Lino damage to £350? I just assumed he’d called out emergency plumber on extortionate hourly rate to fix the leak...
seems the story is getting a little twisted here pal

 

[Millsy 82]

No it was only for 4 hours labour (35 per hour)

Thank God for that that's more bearable.

 

[Scott_D]

Anything could have happened
Guy fitted the shower and drilled through a pipe

 

[Ryooo]

You say a boiler service here.

Sorry I meant total job value.

 

[Ryooo]

In the opening post and post #19 you say he’s fixed the leak, you also says he’s got on with the job which was the reason why I said just chalk it down to experience and move on, really because there’s no real evidence of a leak apart from the damage, but now you’re saying he doesn’t have the part to fix the leak.
Plus, all that damage from a small solder leak? cabinets and Lino damage to £350? I just assumed he’d called out emergency plumber on extortionate hourly rate to fix the leak...
seems the story is getting a little twisted here pal

Hi mate, to clarify. I've asked him if he has fixed the leaked does he still have the faulty elbow, does he have any video or pictures. He hasn't responded to this message? I sent that roughly 24hrs ago.

I would imagine that type of leak would either be a slow weeping leak or pin hole spray. Either way most of the damage would be in the ceiling no? Only damage he is estimating for ceiling I think is £30. Like wtf, surely the ceiling would have to come down before you do that amount of damage to a lino then ply?

No he said he fixed the leak himself.

 

[Ben-gee]

As I said before, I think you need to go around there all nicey nicey and have a look yourself, so far you haven’t been to the property after the leak occurred- I definitely wouldn’t pay up under those circumstances.

Only similar thing I have had was during a whole bathroom refit I didn’t notice a weep from rad pipework when I’d removed it but not yet altered for new towel rail.

When I came to alter pipes I saw it weeping down copper pipe and under floor - unfortunately right above a pboard joint so it went through leaving a discolouration on ceiling.

I offered to make good that area but she insisted whole ceiling needed doing- I said let me do that area first and we’ll see if all needs doing after - in which case I’ll do it (reasonable).

She then insisted that ‘her’ decorator did it and I got a bill for £125.

I thought this unfair but just paid up, and struck her off my list.

When asked to look at kitchen tap 9 months later, I just said no sorry (nose to spite face I know - but it felt good!)

I think my point is, check out that it is your fault- behave reasonably at all times , but ultimately some people are di*ks and you MUST just move on knowing at least you have behaved in a defendable fashion.

 

[Ryooo]

Hi just a quick update, not heard a peep from him since I asked for the faulty elbow and video/photos. That was Monday.

 

[firemant]

God loves a a trier

🙂

 

[centralheatking]

Hi what's the best advice in dealing with a leak in a customers house?

1. Stripped out bathroom suite, installed 1st fix shower pipes in stud wall.
2. Turned water on, cheeked all joints.
3. Show customer completed works. Happy with job and paid me
4. Get a phone call 3 days later saying there is a leak. I get him to discuss over the phone. He idtenifies it as the shower pipes, precisely the speed fit cap I've capped the end off with. Job done. Call me back later to say its not its the soldered elbow at the wall.
5. I arrange to go there a couple days later, call him on the day before no answer. Texts me in the middle night saying he has forgot to leave me a key. Can I come the following day?
6. The following day I get shingles confirmed and decided to take a few day off. He is now not happy.
7. After taking two days off, I make contact. He has now fixed my leak, cracked on with the job because he could not wait and sent me an estimated damage cost of £350.
8. Try to resolve over messages, he lift the water on while property was empty, no one went to house till 2 days after plumbing work was done etc
Now it's getting pretty heated.

To summarise, this is my first unhappy customer. I went self employed in May. I have insurance etc. He wanted the job done cheap as chips. He was plumbing in the kitchen sink to a 1st year level. One of his DIY moments could have caused this.

What is the correct procedure you experienced guys go through when this sort of things happened?

Cheers Ryan

Firstly nobody is perfect, only fools do not learn by their mistakes
I have been in this game since 1982 and had quite a few fellas on.
Plenty of hassle in 30 years with that many fellas.
Expect trouble if you are in business...it how You deal with it that
really counts. You have arrived at the right place for advice.
Speedfit stopend naughty, I would stop all communication with him
if you want offer £100 go away money....VERBALLY. £350 is silly.
Get a buddy self employed plumber so both of you can be ill or go on holiday and cover each other and settle up if their is a problem.

Keep on fitting , heed the advice in here, care but dont worry
centralheatking

 

[Jon30]

Who knows. Actually never saw this. It could not be, and the custard might try to pull quickly.

 

[Harvest Fields]

And everyone ignored my post about telling you to just roll over.😉. always get proof.

 

[OffshoreGas]

Personally I'd pay the £350 and move on with your life. It's just business, its all tax deductible. Use it as a learning experience to spot the to**ers.

A single customer badmouthing a business can cost the business £1000's.

 

[Ryooo]

Personally I'd pay the £350 and move on with your life. It's just business, its all tax deductible. Use it as a learning experience to spot the to**ers.

A single customer badmouthing a business can cost the business £1000's.

But why? I've asked for faulty fitting and or pictures and have heard a peep from him since. Over £200 damages to vinyl and flooring and £30 for ceiling damages. Come on, we all know leaks flood the ceiling, then wall and then flooring. The guy was at it. My guess was he wouldn't wait for me so thought he would have a go himself or most likely his first attempt at fitting kitchen sink didn't go to plan. It's kitchen flooring area he is/was claiming damages for. If I pay £350 I'm admitting liability.

 

[Harvest Fields]

But why? I've asked for faulty fitting and or pictures and have heard a peep from him since. Over £200 damages to vinyl and flooring and £30 for ceiling damages. Come on, we all know leaks flood the ceiling, then wall and then flooring. The guy was at it. My guess was he wouldn't wait for me so thought he would have a go himself or most likely his first attempt at fitting kitchen sink didn't go to plan. It's kitchen flooring area he is/was claiming damages for. If I pay £350 I'm admitting liability.

Agree mate. Never agree to anything like that until you have proper proof.

 

[OffshoreGas]

But why? I've asked for faulty fitting and or pictures and have heard a peep from him since. Over £200 damages to vinyl and flooring and £30 for ceiling damages. Come on, we all know leaks flood the ceiling, then wall and then flooring. The guy was at it. My guess was he wouldn't wait for me so thought he would have a go himself or most likely his first attempt at fitting kitchen sink didn't go to plan. It's kitchen flooring area he is/was claiming damages for. If I pay £350 I'm admitting liability.

3 reasons I say pay up and move on:

1) public opinion and consumer law is 95% in favour of the customer.

2) if his bad mouthing you costs you one decent bathroom you could easily lose 10 times what he wants from you. The public love a good moan and with social media he can tell 1000’s of local people. It doesn’t matter you’ve done nothing wrong

3) best case you end up in court, you’re business ended up in the press, again the plumbers always guilty. You loose nights of sleep, days of messing about with court dates letters etc and incur costs from solicitors etc.

Anyone would want to stick it to him but the best decision for your mental health and business is to pay what he asks. You could try offering him half?

 

[Best]

3 reasons I say pay up and move on:

1) public opinion and consumer law is 95% in favour of the customer.

2) if his bad mouthing you costs you one decent bathroom you could easily lose 10 times what he wants from you. The public love a good moan and with social media he can tell 1000’s of local people. It doesn’t matter you’ve done nothing wrong

3) best case you end up in court, you’re business ended up in the press, again the plumbers always guilty. You loose nights of sleep, days of messing about with court dates letters etc and incur costs from solicitors etc.

Anyone would want to stick it to him but the best decision for your mental health and business is to pay what he asks. You could try offering him half?

Difficult to give advice when we only have part of the story.
The customer could be a rogue, or he could be a reasonably decent guy who genuinely had a leak.
Unfortunately the OP didn’t go back to verify what the truth was.
The law is also fair for a plumber as long as evidence is in the plumbers favour. The customer would have to prove it was the plumbers faulty workmanship and responsibility.
Small Claims Court should be okay for trades people if they have followed all proper procedures with dealing with customer, including overall good quality work and having all evidence.
Problem for the OP here is he wasn’t able to deal with the alleged issue.
If the OP does pay the money, the customer could still bad mouth him and it would look to everyone that the plumber had been liable.
As I say, it is difficult to know what to do. If customer did have a genuine problem caused by the OP and asked a sum of money to a reasonable amount and without showing aggressive intent, then am sure sometimes best to keep them happy, pay and walk away.

I remember being involved with a friends customer who was a con woman. She tried to claim for damage to a vinyl floor actually caused by herself. That sort of person is best to never be handed any money, even just on a principle.
She thinks of insurance, including trades people’s, as something to furnish her lifestyle.

 

[OffshoreGas]

Difficult to give advice when we only have part of the story.
The customer could be a rogue, or he could be a reasonably decent guy who genuinely had a leak.
Unfortunately the OP didn’t go back to verify what the truth was.
The law is also fair for a plumber as long as evidence is in the plumbers favour. The customer would have to prove it was the plumbers faulty workmanship and responsibility.
Small Claims Court should be okay for trades people if they have followed all proper procedures with dealing with customer, including overall good quality work and having all evidence.
Problem for the OP here is he wasn’t able to deal with the alleged issue.
If the OP does pay the money, the customer could still bad mouth him and it would look to everyone that the plumber had been liable.
As I say, it is difficult to know what to do. If customer did have a genuine problem caused by the OP and asked a sum of money to a reasonable amount and without showing aggressive intent, then am sure sometimes best to keep them happy, pay and walk away.

I remember being involved with a friends customer who was a con woman. She tried to claim for damage to a vinyl floor actually caused by herself. That sort of person is best to never be handed any money, even just on a principle.
She thinks of insurance, including trades people’s, as something to furnish her lifestyle.

In consumer law a product or service that fails in the first 6 months is generally considered the vendors fault until proven otherwise. However the vendor is afforded reasonable opportunity to make good the issue.

If I found a leak left by a trades person I’d expect that to be treated as an emergency and resolved in hours not days unless it was the most minor of seeps.

I don’t think it would be hard to convince a judge it was reasonable to effect a repair himself.

You’d need to demonstrate why the job was worth £350. Damaged property, lost wiring time etc.

I agree it sounds like a shakedown, by not jumping in the van and resolving there and then you’ll never know.

 

[Millsy 82]

A few years ago a company I worked for was involved in a court case for a ceiling that came down and carpet ruined etc. What it was the customer had run out of oil as the watchman had been set to the bund height not the inner tank so was showing still 1/3 of a tank when it was actually empty so pipes froze on an extremely cold night burst and basically wrecked this room.

His claim wasnt excessive and because of the conditions (about a foot of snow) we couldn't get to him for a couple of days so he repaired it himself then point blank refused to have the company back to do the repairs. The company refused to pay the money he had asked for and was taken to court it was a bit stressful as I was the last one there (wasnt me that did the install they installed the wrong fire valve 65c instead of 90c and I was the one that spotted the watchman wasnt set up right) I was the one asked all the questions and what they should say etc etc.

They were in court 5 minutes and the judge threw it out. His reasons were the company offered to get out in a reasonable time considering the issues with weather, the customer refused to allow the company access to assess the damage and to repair the damage.

So I dont think the law is 95% in favour of the customer.

Also if the customer is going to bad mouth you they will do it anyway but by giving in they will tell people your a sucker too.

The OP has done the right thing in my eyes he has asked for evidence that it was his fault and heard nothing back, he did try to gain access albeit a couple of days but that may of been agreed by the customer, he couldn't gain access because the customer forgot to leave a key, you cannot help being ill and if the house was empty why didnt the owner leave the water off.

 

[OffshoreGas]

A few years ago a company I worked for was involved in a court case for a ceiling that came down and carpet ruined etc. What it was the customer had run out of oil as the watchman had been set to the bund height not the inner tank so was showing still 1/3 of a tank when it was actually empty so pipes froze on an extremely cold night burst and basically wrecked this room.

His claim wasnt excessive and because of the conditions (about a foot of snow) we couldn't get to him for a couple of days so he repaired it himself then point blank refused to have the company back to do the repairs. The company refused to pay the money he had asked for and was taken to court it was a bit stressful as I was the last one there (wasnt me that did the install they installed the wrong fire valve 65c instead of 90c and I was the one that spotted the watchman wasnt set up right) I was the one asked all the questions and what they should say etc etc.

They were in court 5 minutes and the judge threw it out. His reasons were the company offered to get out in a reasonable time considering the issues with weather, the customer refused to allow the company access to assess the damage and to repair the damage.

So I dont think the law is 95% in favour of the customer.

Also if the customer is going to bad mouth you they will do it anyway but by giving in they will tell people your a sucker too.

The OP has done the right thing in my eyes he has asked for evidence that it was his fault and heard nothing back, he did try to gain access albeit a couple of days but that may of been agreed by the customer, he couldn't gain access because the customer forgot to leave a key, you cannot help being ill and if the house was empty why didnt the owner leave the water off.

I’d say the fundamental difference is your former employer made every effort to attend the property yet was stopped by extreme weather.

In this case the OP chose not to attend for whatever reason.

 

[Thommo]

Hi what's the best advice in dealing with a leak in a customers house?

1. Stripped out bathroom suite, installed 1st fix shower pipes in stud wall.
2. Turned water on, cheeked all joints.
3. Show customer completed works. Happy with job and paid me
4. Get a phone call 3 days later saying there is a leak. I get him to discuss over the phone. He idtenifies it as the shower pipes, precisely the speed fit cap I've capped the end off with. Job done. Call me back later to say its not its the soldered elbow at the wall.
5. I arrange to go there a couple days later, call him on the day before no answer. Texts me in the middle night saying he has forgot to leave me a key. Can I come the following day?
6. The following day I get shingles confirmed and decided to take a few day off. He is now not happy.
7. After taking two days off, I make contact. He has now fixed my leak, cracked on with the job because he could not wait and sent me an estimated damage cost of £350.
8. Try to resolve over messages, he lift the water on while property was empty, no one went to house till 2 days after plumbing work was done etc
Now it's getting pretty heated.

To summarise, this is my first unhappy customer. I went self employed in May. I have insurance etc. He wanted the job done cheap as chips. He was plumbing in the kitchen sink to a 1st year level. One of his DIY moments could have caused this.

What is the correct procedure you experienced guys go through when this sort of things happened?

Cheers Ryan

I can't lie, the second customers begin telling me they're doing their own 'DIY' plumbing that sends alarm bells to me straight away.

Ask him for a breakdown of damage costs, how he's come to that conclusion and if you're actually liable for the requested charge.

By the sounds of it you are liable for the damages caused so I'd sign off the £350 and take it as a lesson learned, if you seek to challenge the damage costs and he takes the legal route it'll end up costing you substantially more than £350 which isn't healthy so early on in your self employed run.

 

[Millsy 82]

I’d say the fundamental difference is your former employer made every effort to attend the property yet was stopped by extreme weather.

In this case the OP chose not to attend for whatever reason.

Read the thread again he went out but the customer forgot to leave a key so he did attend. He then fell ill.

 

[OffshoreGas]

Read the thread again he went out but the customer forgot to leave a key so he did attend. He then fell ill.

The original post says he tired to go out 2 days later. If I was contacted saying my work was leaking I’d be there if at all possibly within a couple of hours. The OP being ill is unfortunate but not really the customers problem, it’s a foreseeable event a business should have a contingency plan for. If in either instance I or someone working for me couldn’t attend pretty sharpish I’d be calling in a favour from a different firm I respect even if it meant paying for it. It’s not worth risking your reputation/liability insurance etc etc.

The customers trying to pull a fast one no doubt but that’s just being in business. I’d offer him £200 as a goodwill gesture first possibly but it’s just not with the time/effort/risk fighting it. It’s business not personal.

 

[Gasmk1]

it seems to have gone quiet from the original poster so can we assume he's sorted it.

 

[Millsy 82]

The original post says he tired to go out 2 days later. If I was contacted saying my work was leaking I’d be there if at all possibly within a couple of hours. The OP being ill is unfortunate but not really the customers problem, it’s a foreseeable event a business should have a contingency plan for. If in either instance I or someone working for me couldn’t attend pretty sharpish I’d be calling in a favour from a different firm I respect even if it meant paying for it. It’s not worth risking your reputation/liability insurance etc etc.

The customers trying to pull a fast one no doubt but that’s just being in business. I’d offer him £200 as a goodwill gesture first possibly but it’s just not with the time/effort/risk fighting it. It’s business not personal.

View attachment 40064

I have said in one of my earlier posts that if it were me I would of gone out immediately to repair the leak

But

We dont know what the customer said!!!!!

As it's an empty house they may of said no rush I have turned the water off to stop the leak. I've had leaks I didnt spot and people have isolated the iso valve before hand and then happy days no rush I go out when its convenient to them not I'm coming now.

 

[centralheatking]

But why? I've asked for faulty fitting and or pictures and have heard a peep from him since. Over £200 damages to vinyl and flooring and £30 for ceiling damages. Come on, we all know leaks flood the ceiling, then wall and then flooring. The guy was at it. My guess was he wouldn't wait for me so thought he would have a go himself or most likely his first attempt at fitting kitchen sink didn't go to plan. It's kitchen flooring area he is/was claiming damages for. If I pay £350 I'm admitting liability.

Park it walk away and DO NOT PAY. centralheatking

 

[firemant]

Personally I'd pay the £350 and move on with your life. It's just business, its all tax deductible. Use it as a learning experience to spot the to**ers.

A single customer badmouthing a business can cost the business £1000's.

What has tax deductability got to do with anything? It is like saying don't bother billing someone as it attracts tax.

I would never pay a penny to a grasping idiot, unless there was a genuine fault.

It appears that he has no evidence, and these days it is SO easy to take a photograph or video. I do not beleive one would move forward without doing just that.

 

[OffshoreGas]

What has tax deductability got to do with anything? It is like saying don't bother billing someone as it attracts tax.

I would never pay a penny to a grasping idiot, unless there was a genuine fault.

It appears that he has no evidence, and these days it is SO easy to take a photograph or video. I do not beleive one would move forward without doing just that.

Because in real terms that £350 is closer to £200 when you take into account tax.

How much time are you willing to waste for £200 - 250?

Personally I’d offer them a lower amount as a goodwills gesture, if they refuse that pay them, move on and do something more productive. It’s a life lesson.

 

[Harvest Fields]

I’m surprised anyone earns any money if you are all offering compensation for every little niggle that pops up

 

[OffshoreGas]

I’m surprised anyone earns any money if you are all offering compensation for every little niggle that pops up

Wouldn’t you always aim to leave every customer feeling they’ve had good service?

Returning quickly to fix a niggle or doing a little bit extra often pays back massively in my experience.

If 1 in 1000 jobs try’s to scam you how much time do you dedicate to it?

 

[Harvest Fields]

Wouldn’t you always aim to leave every customer feeling they’ve had good service?

Returning quickly to fix a niggle or doing a little bit extra often pays back massively in my experience.

If 1 in 1000 jobs try’s to scam you how much time do you dedicate to it?

As much time as the OP already has. He has done what he needs to do. Job done.

 

[Millsy 82]

I’m surprised anyone earns any money if you are all offering compensation for every little niggle that pops up

Especially if your going to offer more than what the job was worth. 😱

 

[Sharp Point]

My penneth worth. In the OP initial post( number 4) he says the customer rang him to say it’s the elbow that’s leaking and they both arranged for Ryoo to go a couple of days later. So the customer is aware that there is a leak but left the water on... the onus is purely on the customer!

Ryoo, I’d say f@ck him. You’ll never make everyone happy...
Some people are just pure tossers

 

[gmartine]

My insurance policy...

 

[OffshoreGas]

My penneth worth. In the OP initial post( number 4) he says the customer rang him to say it’s the elbow that’s leaking and they both arranged for Ryoo to go a couple of days later. So the customer is aware that there is a leak but left the water on... the onus is purely on the customer!

Ryoo, I’d say f@ck him. You’ll never make everyone happy...
Some people are just pure tossers

Kind of depends on each parties definition of "agreed", if the OP said I'll be there in 20 mins and customer said it was OK for a few days is very different to a distressed customer being told the OP will be there in 2 days take it or leave it.

 

[Sharp Point]

Kind of depends on each parties definition of "agreed", if the OP said I'll be there in 20 mins and customer said it was OK for a few days is very different to a distressed customer being told the OP will be there in 2 days take it or leave it.

He left the water on.... nuff sed

 

[OffshoreGas]

He left the water on.. nuff sed

Again you're assuming the customer was competent to decide water should be isolated. You're confusing common sense with the law which rarely agree.

 

[Sharp Point]

Again you're assuming the customer was competent to decide water should be isolated. You're confusing common sense with the law which rarely agree.

If the customer is bright enough to repair the leak, he’s bright enough to isolate the water. He would’ve had to isolate the water to repair it.

 

[Millsy 82]

Kind of depends on each parties definition of "agreed", if the OP said I'll be there in 20 mins and customer said it was OK for a few days is very different to a distressed customer being told the OP will be there in 2 days take it or leave it.

If the customer was not happy then they should of got someone else to repair the leak quicker. Or turn the water off

 

[OffshoreGas]

If the customer was not happy then they should of got someone else to repair the leak quicker. Or turn the water off

Again not what the law says.

 

[Sharp Point]

Again not what the law says.

So you’re a lawyer as well now? Clever man really aren’t you? I’m amazed you’d lower yourself mingling with us mere lowly plumbers being a superior instrument technician and representative of commercial law

 

[Harvest Fields]

Thread closed. I think that this has now been sorted and debated enough.