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M
Mr Wilson
cheers mate was looking at these guess i was on the right track... is one of these really better than the other?
also saw this one same pump i think but more simple programing but also cheaper
piping size is 20mm through the whole house. and i was working of a piping design that was with a plumber when i first got me original quotes. its slightly changed now as ive found a shorter path and the location of the burner has moved . i should modify the plan accordingly. ill have my plumber go over everything next week when he lays the gas pipe next week.
should also mention pulled this of the manufacture of the 3/4 pex pipe im using
Pressure Drop Considerations
In general, the greater the distance from the manifold to the fixture, the wider the PEX tubing should be. A 3/8-inch line is sufficient for lengths up to 250 feet; 1/2-inch line will deliver adequate water pressure up to 350 feet; and 3/4-inch tubing is necessary to run a 500-foot line.
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Mr Wilson, it is worth doing these calculations properly, pay someone to do them for you or buy a copy of domestic heating design guide, the CIBSE one. It will probably save you money aswell, as from what you have described I would be very surprised if those pumps were needed. Domestic 15-50 type circulators should suffice.
I presume you are having a Low Loss Header installed aswell then?
Secondary expansion vessel for heating aswell?
You do realise why he is happy don`t you? As the labourer all the risks are on you if it goes pear shaped. All up to you to contact various suppliers and manufactures and nowt to do with him.
M
Mr Wilson
Ok so to recap
i need to have installed a full heating system into our house of which ive never done other than basic copper and pex pipework fittings ect. I have to work with a plumber who i cannot communicate with easily due to language barriers and i have limited resources which forces me to do as much of the work myself and to purchase as much fittings and materials as i can which saves me a fortune up to 1/3 of the total build price and yes i will be taking all responsibility for any malfunctioning part in the system.
All gas connections and fittings to boiler and any other plumbing that is beyond my abilities im happy to pay my plumber who i even organized to do the main connection from the gas tank to the house which would usually be done by the gas tank suppliers own fitters to try and get my plumber more work.
the build itself should be reasonably simple with DHW to 2 bathrooms ( no kitchens ) we have 8 rooms 2 bathrooms and 2 hallways that need to be heated all with Rads which i have been collecting for the last year from various locations and so half i purchased new and the others are second handers that i got either cheap or free. if the rads are undersized or in some way malfunctioning than ill replace as needed and as finances permits.
im be chasing in all walls and laying all internal circuits through out the house working off some initial planning i did with a different plumber i had first contacted but was not gas certified but only installed oil burners so he referd me to the plumber i currently am working with. So apart of my planning process is to gather as much understanding of the build with the help of this forum so than i can better work with my plumber as to what i can and cannot do. And to reiterate due to finance limitations im having to take the risks associated with sourcing my own parts and requiring a plumbers services as skilled laborer not a retailer.
So the build can be split up into 2 parts the internal house circuits made up of 2 zones the DHW to 2 bathrooms that are directly above each other and installation of radiators in rooms. The other part is the installation and connection of the gas burner and the pipework and fittings of pumps, valves, Pressure relief valves, low loss header if needed ect ect.
In regards to these 2 projects im rather competent to do the chasing and fitting of all internal pipe work and rad connections. Although id admit confirmation with the zone layouts and loads would be appreciated if i could confirm that with folks here before showing my plumber. Again due to the language barrier id like to have some forsight on possible issues that i dont see before having to waste my plumbers time.
As to the boiler connection id like to do as much as the layout as i can so that all my plumber would need to do is connect all connections to the boiler. problem is with this is that id need Knowledge help with the design layout And all parts required to complete the job. Which brings me back to the communication problem i have with my plumber and why if like to be as infoed and pre planned as i can be before i go over this with him. than i can better understand what i can realistically do myself and what i should leave for him.
i hope this helps in understanding my situation. And any any all help in furthering my understanding would be and is greatly appreciated. Even if i end up doing less work myself im happy to pay my plumber for his time. where i really save the money is in the parts and fittings so being informed about system design and possible options is really where this forum can save me and bring me in budget. Also i understand many tradies spend a lot of energy and time to learn their craft and it can be a tricky thing working with a plumber and asking for advice that is in the best interest of the client (DIYer) over a bigger payout for the tradie. Hence why forums like this exist and is a great recourse to Those who wanna give it a crack themselves.
i need to have installed a full heating system into our house of which ive never done other than basic copper and pex pipework fittings ect. I have to work with a plumber who i cannot communicate with easily due to language barriers and i have limited resources which forces me to do as much of the work myself and to purchase as much fittings and materials as i can which saves me a fortune up to 1/3 of the total build price and yes i will be taking all responsibility for any malfunctioning part in the system.
All gas connections and fittings to boiler and any other plumbing that is beyond my abilities im happy to pay my plumber who i even organized to do the main connection from the gas tank to the house which would usually be done by the gas tank suppliers own fitters to try and get my plumber more work.
the build itself should be reasonably simple with DHW to 2 bathrooms ( no kitchens ) we have 8 rooms 2 bathrooms and 2 hallways that need to be heated all with Rads which i have been collecting for the last year from various locations and so half i purchased new and the others are second handers that i got either cheap or free. if the rads are undersized or in some way malfunctioning than ill replace as needed and as finances permits.
im be chasing in all walls and laying all internal circuits through out the house working off some initial planning i did with a different plumber i had first contacted but was not gas certified but only installed oil burners so he referd me to the plumber i currently am working with. So apart of my planning process is to gather as much understanding of the build with the help of this forum so than i can better work with my plumber as to what i can and cannot do. And to reiterate due to finance limitations im having to take the risks associated with sourcing my own parts and requiring a plumbers services as skilled laborer not a retailer.
So the build can be split up into 2 parts the internal house circuits made up of 2 zones the DHW to 2 bathrooms that are directly above each other and installation of radiators in rooms. The other part is the installation and connection of the gas burner and the pipework and fittings of pumps, valves, Pressure relief valves, low loss header if needed ect ect.
In regards to these 2 projects im rather competent to do the chasing and fitting of all internal pipe work and rad connections. Although id admit confirmation with the zone layouts and loads would be appreciated if i could confirm that with folks here before showing my plumber. Again due to the language barrier id like to have some forsight on possible issues that i dont see before having to waste my plumbers time.
As to the boiler connection id like to do as much as the layout as i can so that all my plumber would need to do is connect all connections to the boiler. problem is with this is that id need Knowledge help with the design layout And all parts required to complete the job. Which brings me back to the communication problem i have with my plumber and why if like to be as infoed and pre planned as i can be before i go over this with him. than i can better understand what i can realistically do myself and what i should leave for him.
i hope this helps in understanding my situation. And any any all help in furthering my understanding would be and is greatly appreciated. Even if i end up doing less work myself im happy to pay my plumber for his time. where i really save the money is in the parts and fittings so being informed about system design and possible options is really where this forum can save me and bring me in budget. Also i understand many tradies spend a lot of energy and time to learn their craft and it can be a tricky thing working with a plumber and asking for advice that is in the best interest of the client (DIYer) over a bigger payout for the tradie. Hence why forums like this exist and is a great recourse to Those who wanna give it a crack themselves.
M
Mr Wilson
This is the unit im planning on getting
if i get the unit off the plumber id have to downgrade to his unit and pay about 500Euros more
im thinking it would also require more labor do it more components needing to be installed.
in terms of my connections to the boiler and looking at the owners manual to the 222-F id be heading in this direction
this does require a low loss header with the addition of having 2 heating zones requiring 2 pumps. And its this part of the build that id like to understand better to know what i can do myself and what i leave to me plumber although i still need to know what parts i require to purchase.
what i would like to understand
what i understand
attached image is the house layout trying to balance the load between rads and distance granted the travel distance of zone 1 is about 15m more to get to the otherside of the house but was thinking about connecting the hallway rads to zone 2 not 1
So there would be 7 rads minimum on zone 1 with a furthest travel distance of about 40 m to rads and 40m return
Zone 2 has a minimum of 9 rads with about 30m of travel distance but this is offset with having to serve 2 bathrooms which will need to be at a higher temperature
perhaps the logic is incorrect and no heat is losed in travel distance but is is the shortest routes currently avaliable . would love it if anyone has comments on this before i try and take to my plumber to confirm.
if i get the unit off the plumber id have to downgrade to his unit and pay about 500Euros more
im thinking it would also require more labor do it more components needing to be installed.
in terms of my connections to the boiler and looking at the owners manual to the 222-F id be heading in this direction
this does require a low loss header with the addition of having 2 heating zones requiring 2 pumps. And its this part of the build that id like to understand better to know what i can do myself and what i leave to me plumber although i still need to know what parts i require to purchase.
what i would like to understand
what i understand
attached image is the house layout trying to balance the load between rads and distance granted the travel distance of zone 1 is about 15m more to get to the otherside of the house but was thinking about connecting the hallway rads to zone 2 not 1
So there would be 7 rads minimum on zone 1 with a furthest travel distance of about 40 m to rads and 40m return
Zone 2 has a minimum of 9 rads with about 30m of travel distance but this is offset with having to serve 2 bathrooms which will need to be at a higher temperature
perhaps the logic is incorrect and no heat is losed in travel distance but is is the shortest routes currently avaliable . would love it if anyone has comments on this before i try and take to my plumber to confirm.
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M
Mr Wilson
if by calor you mean gas? than yes... here in germany they just brought out new regulations on new heating installations which basically eliminates using any second hand burner older than 4 years or close to. i actually have a near new viessman oil burner that was only used for 4 years and than stored for 6 years think it cost over 10k but due to job creation policies ( cough ) i mean governmental "green" policies im unable to use it.
so for new installs my oil burner option was almost 3x what a gas burner is setup wise ... yes gas costs more than oil and mabye over 30 years id saved my money. but who knows enery prices are a fickle thing and after the next great big war who knows which energy system will cost less. heck in 10 years they probally have figured out fusion tech and we will be running heating systems of that.
so this is why gas over oil the 1/3 start up costs...
- May 23, 2015
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I thought the clue was in the name?
UK plumbers. Germany crack on.
Might want to consult DEplumbers forum.
UK plumbers. Germany crack on.
Might want to consult DEplumbers forum.
M
Mr Wilson
ya dont speak german and most germans over the age of 30 dont speak english well in general. and water flows and heats up the same in both countries at least last time i checked.
M
Mr Wilson
M
Mr Wilson
hea voivod ... ya would be same in australia cant touch a tap washer without getting in a 120$ per hour paid professional.
might be that it varies from state to state dont know . im close to east germany as it gets so mabey they still a few years behind... all i know is need a cert fitter to touch any form of gas.
as for the zones what would you recommend would really appreciate input.
M
Mr Wilson
Due to the outstanding assistance im ending thread
guess i had too high expectations
thankyou to those who " bothered"
guess i had too high expectations
thankyou to those who " bothered"
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