Multimeter or not multimeter?

[John_]

With modern boilers, a lot of their error codes will tell u exactly what is wrong - is there a need for multimeter for fault finding?

 

[Orry Clayton]

Many many still don't have error codes, and even those that do, it can be showing wrong fault due to something else. Always better to do your own fault finding than trust what the boiler says.

 

[Mike Jackson]

Even if a lot of error codes tell you what is wrong they don't always tell you exactly what is wrong. the MIs will tell you to check the resistance across components etc. A multimeter is essential if you are going to carry out fault finding on any boiler or system.

 

[snowhead]

Reasons to have a Multimeter;

Basic check of Live, Neutral, Earth at the point of isolation.

Checking fuse at point of isolation, or any other fuses within the boiler.

Checking L,N,E at point of supply to appliance,, proving flexible cable is O.K. and to prove dead before working on the appliance.

Checking Voltages around the boiler /appliance eg. pump, valves etc.

 

[JAP&H]

With modern boilers, a lot of their error codes will tell u exactly what is wrong - is there a need for multimeter for fault finding?

What do you suggest as an alternative if you find yourself working on an appliance that is not modern and shows no error codes?

 

[glenno1]

How else would you check for safe isolation and do your earth tests

 

[John_]

Fair points guys. Just something that crosses my mind when I was thinking about error codes.

 

[stevetheplumber]

if you need to ask that question m8 get your self on the gloworm 3 day course how to use a meter how to fault find and how boilers work think its about 75 a day and worth every penny

 

[Mike Jackson]

How else would you check for safe isolation and do your earth tests

A multimeter is not the correct tool to check for safe isolation.

Have a look at http://www.esc.org.uk/fileadmin/user_upload/documents/industry/best_practice/BPG2_09.pdf

You should be using a dedicated unit which requires no batteries and it should be checked on a known live source or proving unit before and after the test has been carried out.

 

[glenno1]

Cheers mike i do use fluke voltage tester, but i have used multimeter without knowing it is not best practice,so cheers for pointing it out:smile:

 

[John_]

Thx you for your suggestion Steve. I will have a look at these courses. Definitely interested. It is just that I would imagine these boiler manufacturer must've spent thousands, or even millions of pounds to develop these sophisticate diagnostic programs on boilers so they must worth something. These error codes, are they for the benefit of the customers so they are not being bull**** by the engineer or for the benefit of the engineer to diagnose the problem? Some of these codes are very specific about what is wrong - surely this should reduce the need for a multimeter. 🙂

 

[Mike Jackson]

A few years back, eaga issued all of us engineers with a multimeter and gave us training on testing for dead with them. I disagreed with what was taught us and refused to sign to say I'd been given training in testing for dead. A few months later I was pulled up by our Health and Safety woman because I didn't have the multimeter in the property with me when I was disconnecting the boiler. Instead I had my battery free voltage tester which I demonstrated how I was using and explained why I was not using the multimeter.

She asked me where I had got my info from and I sent her various technical articles from NICIEC and the IEE. Not long after all the engineers were called in asked to surrender the multimeters and given Martindale testers with a proving unit.

I then had to fight to get the multimeters back as I said we still needed them to fault find. Their argument was that as we only installed we didn't need to fault find. After we had had the manufacturers out for minor issues which could easily have been solved with a multimeter we got them back.

 

[Bernie2]

Why is it usually so hard to get officer workers to understand or listen too the workforce in the UK?

 

[stevetheplumber]

i was taught to use a volt stick to prove the casing wasnt live and then procede with the standard tests with a muti meter the martidale you refer to i assume isnt a plug in one ? since most fault finding guides issued by manufacturers seen to indicate the use of multimeters thats what i will continue to do

 

[stevetheplumber]

Why is it usually so hard to get officer workers to understand or listen too the workforce in the UK?

because if they did it would prove that most of what they do is unnecessary ,all health and safety is a self feeding monster that must eventually eat its self whilst ive no wish to go back to the days when labour was expendable it now getting ridicullus

 

[GrahamM]

i was taught to use a volt stick to prove the casing wasnt live and then procede with the standard tests with a muti meter the martidale you refer to i assume isnt a plug in one ? since most fault finding guides issued by manufacturers seen to indicate the use of multimeters thats what i will continue to do

The martindale units are great tools. Even better when paired with their proving units.
The good old multimeter and volt stick is still more than sufficient for our uses.

B/G's socket & see is a good tool as well.

 

[stevetheplumber]

i asked as the martindale i have is a plug in so virtually useless for most boilers with a spur

 

[Mike Jackson]

Have a look at Martindale VI13700G & PD440 Voltage Indicator and Proving Unit - Martindale Voltage Detectors this is what I've got. Test before and after use with the proving unit and you're as certain as you can be that the circuits are dead.

It's the HSE recommended way of testing for dead so you're covering yourself as well as anyone working with you.

 

[AWheating]

i agree with mike, approved voltage tester and proving unit for isolation is the best option. volt stick are fine for a general indication but wont always show voltage, some dont even show voltages under 50 or even 100 volts.

i worked at a firm that issued all its sparks with voltage testers and proving units but not its plumbers and heating engineers. So i refused to disconnect anything and made them send a sparks around which the gaffas did not like as it cost them money. They even stopped paying the heating engineers for temping up the new boilers/installs because they said they could not been seen to be paying a plumber to do something he/she should not do. So i temped and tested my appliances and then removed the temps and gave the tenants the call out number so they could call out a sparks after the day was finished to get it wired. It cost the company more to pay the call out then they paid us to temp but there you go.