Part 1/2 type float valves

[WaterTight]

Fitted hundreds. Recently been having a few callbacks from ones starting to drip after few weeks. Usually bought from bes or toolstation. Wonder if it's a bad batch of whether the quality is declining. Is it worth buying the ones with brass seat from bes? Do you think that might make a difference? Or maybe buy them from a merchant in the hope theirs would be better quality? They'll be pricier, for sure.

 

[mountainman]

Could be a dodgy batch but more likely to be poor quality cheap valves from the cheapes source.

 

[REDSAW]

check the nozzle (the white bit)
sometimes they are a little rough cast, not smooth or square.
this normally wears out the washer in no time. look very carefully and sand flat.

 

[Best]

Yes, those seatings, nozzles, whatever you want to call them, are often rough at the ends & also a lot are designed with a tapered sharp end instead of a flat face, & therefore just cuts into the washer.
Always after you turn the water back on, hold the valve up closed & check it is not letting a drip past it.

 

[WaterTight]

I always check the new one shuts off. So you guys find yourself sanding the seatings on your float valves? How rubbish is a product when it needs modification before you even fit it? Guh...

Any particular reason not to use fluidmaster pro side entries in CWSC apart from the extra £££?

 

[WaterTight]

Got another callback this morning. In the last couple of months I've gone back to change about 5 or 6 installed at times varying from 10 months to 6 weeks ago. Anyone else experiencing this? I might have to starting chucking £20 onto my ballvalve changes to cover replacing it a few weeks later.

 

[scotty plumber]

I have been heating up arm with blowtorch before bending type 1 lately otherwise they have just been snapping!

 

[ecowarm]

China come to mind, I don't know why

 

[scotty plumber]

I am not a fan of the type 2 anyway as i find that the screw that you tighten on to the arm can come loose and then spins around, so i only use them when needed combi cylinder etc

 

[Guest123]

If you're using the brass type, check that the screw on end cap is tight, very few are. Did you undo the seating and let water run through the valve body to flush it out before commisioning it? Grit is the biggest enemy of any valve!

As to Fluid masters I fit them as they don't give me call backs in the future.

Type 2 ball valves should be fitted in a cwsc as this is now a requirement as is a byelaw 30 kit in England and Wales.

 

[WaterTight]

If you're using the brass type, check that the screw on end cap is tight, very few are.

Never check that

Did you undo the seating and let water run through the valve body to flush it out before commisioning it? Grit is the biggest enemy of any valve!

Again, nope.

Couple of things I can try, thanks. Hopefully at least lessen the impact of using cheap tat.

But seriously though, even without those two measures, I pull ball-valves out that are done with hemp and covered in barnacles i.e. they're ancient and have only just started to fail. They must have some grit in them over time? Then I chuck in a brand new one and it lasts 6 weeks before it's passing!

As to Fluid masters I fit them as they don't give me call backs in the future.

Type 2 ball valves should be fitted in a cwsc as this is now a requirement as is a byelaw 60 kit in England and Wales.

Can you just clarify then, fluidmasters ok for CWSC? But if fitting ball valve needs to be Part 2?

 

[Guest123]

Fluidmasters are for toilet cisterns and YES a ball valve to a CWSC needs to be Part 2 now to conform to byelaws etc. Don't forget to fit a strenghtening plate on a plastic tank to prevent the ball valve from lifting up when the tank is full and weakening it. Not many fit one but will come with a byelaw 30 kit.

Buy good quality brass ball valves like Pegler and not the cheap imported stuff. Screw fix and the like are now being found out as to why they're so cheap......they are selling imported tat. The ball valves you are describing that are soiled and been in for years have lasted that long simply because they are better quality.

 

[WaterTight]

So do the regs prohibit the fitting of a fluidmaster side-entry into a CWSC? Seem to remember the main guy in my town's longest running merchant saying you could. That was couple of years back though.

Thanks for recommendation on Pegler ball-valves. I've had enough of call-backs to these so will switch to a quality brand.

 

[Guest123]

It's to do with the surface area ratio to how quickly the valve shuts off. The larger type 1 and type 2 valves have more surface area so that when the water level rises, there is a gradual shut off, allowing less wear and tear on the sealing diaphragm than if it were to suddenly switch off very quickly. There is a heck of a lot more water pressing upward in a CWSC than in a toilet cistern so a smaller fill valve like a Fluid master etc. would be better used in the smaller toilet cistern that it is designed for. My own personal opinion is that if a Fluid master was to be used in a CWSC, it would be put under far greater stress than what it is designed for, and even though it would work, it would eventually fail.

However I did fit one in a copper combination tank/cylinder and it still works perfectly. The surface area is of course smaller than a domestic CWSC. My advice is this: "if in doubt, use the tried and tested" and traditional ball valves have been in service for decades.

 

[gravytrain]

Or maybe buy them from a merchant in the hope theirs would be better quality? They'll be pricier, for sure.

well the difference between toolstation and plum center is £2.64

i dont have any problems with their valves, just bung em straight on.

also i'm pretty sure water regs states part 2 for CWSC

 

[Mike Jackson]

You can only fit a part 1 in exchange for another part 1.

 

[scotty plumber]

Can somebody explain the difference between a part1/2 ballvalve? I have fitted hundreds of part 1's in a cwsc

 

[SimonJohns]

A part 1 fill from bottom

A part 2 fills over top. Usually by a plastic arm


A part 2 was designed to ensure the 25mm air gap

 

[PlumbBobBob]

also part 1 has straight arm and part 2 has bent arm so ball can be lower without having to bend arm so also ensuring air gap is not lost.

 

[SimonJohns]

Part 3 is a part 2 in plastic.

Part 4 is a torbek

 

[dontknowitall]

Part 2 has a 2 on its side ...

 

[Best]

Stating the obvious, ... but a part 2 valve uses a diaphragm washer which does the movement, whereas a part 1 uses a piston with a washer in it. This tends to mean the Part 2 are less prone to water hammer & water roar, some of the few things good about them, although some cheap ones are still noisy.
Bring back those old quality part 1 valves with the pipe into water out the bottom of them! Lol!

 

[tamz]

To comply with the water regs you should be fitting part 2 valves which have the outlet over the top of the valve unless you are replacing like for like. The outlet over the top gives an increased air break to help prevent syphonage.
If fitting onto a cws it is good practice to fit a 6" float.

I've yet to come across a brass ballcock i couldn't repair and service in 10 minutes rather than replace it.

 

[WaterTight]

Prob last 10 times longer than a foolstation replacement too.