People Cutting Corners

[GQuigley67]

How are we ment to compete when quoting for jobs like a boiler swap when someone else is willing to do it without powerflushing etc ? I heard that their are people doing boiler swaps for £250 out there labour only of course but sad thing is the customer is going to go for the cheapest even though they aren't going to get the best out of the boiler.

 

[oldplumber]

I know of people who are installing loads of boilers but not making any money and have people queuing up for them to do work. Whats the point if your earning peanuts, me Id rather do occasional installs at a decent profit than work like an idiot all the hours, yet have no money on completion, doesnt make sense,yet they dont see the problem, as they say Ive loads of work booked, yet you know loads of it is lemons!!! IDIOTS and they ruin it for the rest of us.

 

[GQuigley67]

I'm hoping to do alot of installs but I don't know how I'm going to compete if i'm pricing for power flush and install and tryin to talk the customer into magnaclean and room stats etc when other guys are just doing a straight swap no flushing at all no inhibitor and no programmers or nothing for peanuts !!

 

[Puddle]

There are always people going to give quotations to carry out bodge up work and there are always going to be ignorant takers

All you can do is point out the corners being cut,the dangerous practices being carried out,the regulations they are breaking and the boiler warrantees they are voiding by such installs,after that,it is down to them,by pointing out the above ,you will improve you success rate in gaining some of the boarder line quotations

And the ones you loose,many are just jobs put on hold for a while,until you are called back to sort out when boiler stops working,breaks down or requires replacing again after a few years

With these new breed of HE boilers,I get a lot of work from them being installed incorrectly and from them just being thrown on the wall

imho

 

[smillsey]

Much better work anyway fixing other peoples mistakes. Much more satisfaction for me knowing I know more 🙂 The monkeys will always go for the installs as its easy to cut corners. You cant cut corners repairing boilers. You either know what you are doing, or you dont.

 

[tipintim]

I know an installer that takes pride to say he can fit a total heating system in a day.
I cant flush a system, certify and explain to customer how to operate in a day, let alone fit it.
( i have seen the end result of this guys installs, just for starters, floor boards , carpets
furniture ,all badly damaged etc ) Yet, he earns a fortune.
I personally like to sleep at night.

 

[dontknowitall]

I point out to potential customers that I'm not the cheapest but I do a good job, have not had any return calls (yet) and install to current building regulations. I tell them that others will do it cheaper but they might have running problems and they probably won't be sticking to the building regulations. I also sometimes mention that I have to take my exams every five years and am inspected from time to time.

The difficulty comes when they try to sell the property as solicitors are becoming more demanding and wanting certificates and paperwork for all sorts of things. If they ask for an installation certificate and don't get one then there might be a host of other works carried out that do not conform to the regulations and the potential buyer might pull out of the sale or knock down the offer price even more.

This method of quoting doesn't always work but I'm not in the game for quick, cheap work - just thorough and good practice and my customers feel much more confident they're receiving a good job for pretty good value.

 

[HoodedClaw]

If you you need to quote the right price for the right job then explain why its required.

If you explain why you recommend a powerflush and magnaclean then they will look badly at the people who cut corners.

Most the time the manufacture will expect it? So anything else would invalidate a warranty?

Its when someone gets a quote with list of items and haven't a clue if its actually needed that it perceived someone is inflating the quote.

 

[SafeGasInstall]

what I notice people who ACTUALLY want boiler change

are the one ,that want to shake my hand on the way home after my first visit ......

any one has thought of it ,yet ?

 

[tamz]

You have to quote to suit the job and the customer and you need to know what you are talking about. Everyone has a budget, some higher than others.

Some examples.
You can usually tell as soon as you draw up at the door.

If you go in and the place is a piggery with the only thing of value in the full house being the 52" plasma, the boiler is being changed as they have no option and they think BandQ do great boilers at under £400 walk away! unless you are sitting on the bones of your rse as you are wasting your time.
They will be looking for a cheap install and no amount of talking will persuade them to do anything more than a straight off on swap.

Then there are the internet price searchers. Know the price of every model of boiler and want to supply the materials. In theory that should be ok but when you give the fitting cost they near pass out (they compare it to what they make in a day) and you know they will not order something or something will be broken which will mean extra time and trouble for you which is not going to be paid without a row. Another waste of time!

Landlords...........Naw! I'm too busy; get someone else.

You average customer will however be looking for a reasonable boiler swap at a reasonable cost. They will probably know that w ww.com sells boilers for X amount but listen if you explain the benefits of things and the differences between certain boilers and manufacturers. Also ask them to compare on a like for like basis. No point trying to sell a Worcs or Vaillant when they have someone quoting a Halstead. If they want a cheap boiler give them a cheap boiler but explain about the higher parts cost when (as it will) it breaks down.
This may mean you have to put things like powerflush etc as an optional extra. A magnaclean or other filter is always easy to sell if it can be afforded.
(When swapping on sealed systems there "should" be no need to powerflush if the system has been sound. Many of the system problems with rads not fully heating are down to the system design but at a minimum insist on a chemical flush which may involve adding some X800 a week or so before you start and repeating on the day. It will only take an extra hour of your time).

Then there are the customers who know exactly what they want. They have spent some time researching different boilers and know the benefits of a well fitted system and will spend a bit extra as they see fit.
Quote them for what they want.

Then there are the more money than sense ones who just want the "best". Don't even try to talk these ones around. If Mrs next door has the GSI they want the Ghia. Just give them what they want. You can experiment with stuff you have never heard of here.

Lastly there are the ones who have had a quote from big gas. Think of a number, double it, add on travel time and you will still be cheaper and give a better job.

What i am trying to say is different people different work. Price to suit the job and try to learn your customers.

Tipintim
A one day boiler swap including a proper powerflush is easily achievable in one day with 2 men. as is 1 day installs. My mat and I used to do 1 day 7/8 rad installs (5 a week) open Y plan systems with replacement cyinders fitted. Moving furniture, lifting and relaying carpets, boards etc holes filled and plastered even washed the handprints off the paintwork. Usually finished for about half 5 and never had a call back or claim. We had no time for that nonsense. It was done right first time as it cost us too much.
Get the right partner and you don't need to communicate; each just does their own and you meet in the middle. Last words you speak to your mate is when you get out the van at 5 to 8. No tea breaks no *** breaks, just work. Any words in between is usually when you are having a stand up fight in the street over something that slows you down.
You learn over the years how to do things quicker (without bodging) and learn house design and how they are built. What may seem a hard job to you is a piece of pysh to the guy who has done 1000 of them as he doesn't need to think

I'm too old now and it took it's toll on my body but if i feel like it i will still do a perfect install in 2 days with the apprentice.

 

[tipintim]

Tamz
Acknoledge your beaten words. I am an installer domestic and comercial.
As for your qoute regarding you and mat being able to fit in a day, I was qouting a
shoddy plumber i know that can do the full hit in one day.
Why does it have to be done asap, and you phisically suffer, as you said, are you greedy

 

[SafeGasInstall]

i personally did some of this work,boiler change foe the cancel,combi out combi in 3-4h max!full 3 bed house or flat in 3 days on my own ,new gas ,new mains,new first fix kitchen and bathroom done ! i am 31 now and dont even want to go back to this type of work did earn over 1g a week but was so worn out and always late 8-9 pm home as travel 2-3 h on the way home ,london is getting to much traffic !now start on my own i do little jobs but now within 1 month have my second boiler change job and i am giving reasonable prices !have had people waisted my time but that is the way we all are !

thank you tamz for speaking your mined and sharing with as your experience!


Regards Stan

 

[tamz]

Tamz
Why does it have to be done asap, and you phisically suffer, as you said, are you greedy

Maybe i was greedy? but i think it was more to prove a point to everyone. Plumber used to be a dirty word like you're a "plumber¿" So i made it a mission to out do them and i did.
I was always working and as such work became my life (still is i suppose) but the ex wife knew how to spend🙁 but she was a great cook😀. I was just a bit of a beast for the work.
You don't think about it at the time and some of the "old guys" would say slow down, you'll regret it in a few years but at 30 you think you are indestructible and £550 clear in the 80's was big money when everyone else was on about 120-150, plus there was the homers at nights and the weekends for the extra cash.
Had the flash cars which i never drove, the fancy clothes i never wore and the bungalow i was never in😕
Cost me a lot though. Never saw the kids growing up, body fkd by the time you hit 45 (i think it was earlier but that is around the time i really felt it) and a marriage down the tubes as i was constantly stressed out.
Only upside: I made a lot of good contacts through what i could do and how i did it which has served me well.
Such is life.

One man doing an install in a day is cutting every corner possible and doing a shyt job.
I have known and worked with what i would class as some of the best and fastest guys in the game but i have never met one who could do a full install in a day on their own.

Stan
Keep at it mate. If you are good it will come to you after a while once you become known but you need to work at it.

 

[buffy27]

doin stuff like that in a day is a joke ..my brain would be doing ninety after a rushed job thinkin there has to be something amiss !!!!
..it could only be a rushed job in fairness... it could be done i am certain of that but it would have to be straight forward and u would have to be very well organised and capable of covering all and every eventuality material wise etc ...i agree with the post above by "tamz" ... and what u said about your family etc has set alarm bells ringing in my head ..i think i need to slow down ....

 

[tamz]

After a while you just cruise it. You don't think about what you are doing. Thinking takes time. What you are actually doing is constantly thinking ahead. You have the boiler on the wall before you get out the van and the next part done before you start it.
Hard to explain but it just happens.
The target was furniture moved carpets up, boiler mounted, rads hung and dressed before 9.
Constant stress.
Any young speed merchants reading this, It is not worth it.

 

[Avatar]

The whole demstic market worries me at the moment - with loads of guys like BG, Npower, AA and such like now offering boiler/plumbing maintenance plans for peanuts . . .

ITs very true - 80-90% of of the doemstic customers do only want the cheapest job, and there are plenty of unskilled guys who will do this.

ITs one reason I am making moves to move my whole business into the commerical sector, where my skills are both appriecated and valued more!

The domestic market is full of muppetts who do a crap job working for muppets who dont want to spend money. The only decent customers I have are commercial!

I think we should all take note - this situation is gonna get worse before it gets better!

 

[oldplumber]

I'm too old now and it took it's toll on my body

exactly why I dont bother with 1 day installs, I like to take a bit of time, have sensible breaks and look forward to a decent retirement, why kill yourself when you can still earn decent money over 3 days, 1 power flush , 2 strip out and in, 3 final flush through and commissioning. Then the customer thinks youve done a decent job. Do it all in one day and they think theyve been ripped off, which in my opinion they must have been as I still cant see how you can do a quality piece of work with out leaving things looking bad or cutting corners. There maybe some of you out there who disagree, but lots of my work is the result of people bunging in boilers in a day and I trot along later and sort out the mess. omho but quality takes a bit of time. The tarj Mahal wasnt built overnight and it shows, bovis homes and the like are thrown up in a jiffy and the results speak for themselves.

 

[GQuigley67]

The whole demstic market worries me at the moment - with loads of guys like BG, Npower, AA and such like now offering boiler/plumbing maintenance plans for peanuts . . .

ITs very true - 80-90% of of the doemstic customers do only want the cheapest job, and there are plenty of unskilled guys who will do this.

ITs one reason I am making moves to move my whole business into the commerical sector, where my skills are both appriecated and valued more!

The domestic market is full of muppetts who do a crap job working for muppets who dont want to spend money. The only decent customers I have are commercial!

I think we should all take note - this situation is gonna get worse before it gets better!

Yeh I've got a commercial client the now for some plumbing work made alot of money in november there and he's ment to be getting me back soon to do more work, was a really good job to work on and good pay.

I'm used to working in commercial with my old company where you had clark of works, site agents etc everything had to look good astheticly and be done properly and if it wasn't you had to strip out and re-do. I go into some domestic dwellings and the pipework etc is absolutely awful and things are just thrown in any old way

 

[Twinhawk]

you think thats bad, was at my mums house at christmas, fixed a leak ouside, got my hand pump and a load of bottled water and pumped the heaing sytem back up, got paid with a christmas dinner, her toilet was also broken syphon snapped where handle connects, asked her for 20 quid to get a syphon and she had the cheek to turn round and say, 20 QUID ILL GET IT MYSELF, f-in install it yourself too then, the same in my grannys fitting snapped over boiler and destroyed it, so i cut the pipe out drilled hole throught and ran it "staright" in with hep so no fittings to break with ice, the boiler enginner comes out fixes her boiler and tell her thats an awful job, you'd think i got paid for it ffs, it wont leak!!!

 

[GQuigley67]

you think thats bad, was at my mums house at christmas, fixed a leak ouside, got my hand pump and a load of bottled water and pumped the heaing sytem back up, got paid with a christmas dinner, her toilet was also broken syphon snapped where handle connects, asked her for 20 quid to get a syphon and she had the cheek to turn round and say, 20 QUID ILL GET IT MYSELF, f-in install it yourself too then, the same in my grannys fitting snapped over boiler and destroyed it, so i cut the pipe out drilled hole throught and ran it "staright" in with hep so no fittings to break with ice, the boiler enginner comes out fixes her boiler and tell her thats an awful job, you'd think i got paid for it ffs, it wont leak!!!

haha priceless, this one syphon I'm replacing is £30 quid alone !! 😛

 

[Twinhawk]

i get them for about 7-8 quid, but it was a b&q jobby, some people just dont realise favors, last year during the thaw i fixed a leak outside going to fridge (big fancy one). snap snap job done. nothing big, it was my mum but not even a thankyou, it was like you live here why should i thankyou. Any f-in wonder it took 9 years for my dad to do the bathroom and hes a plumber too...but definatley had the worst customer the other day, on a job i've f-d up not that she'll find out because its empy and i'll get it sorted, but as she was letting me in she started talk about her neighbours f-ing filthy n**ers, lesbians, "dirty poles" and thieving spiks, my jaw dropped, i felt like saying you live in a f-ing council house , dont work drive an audi and are in your pyjammas at one o'clock, wind yer neck in,.....BUT i didnt because i was up the shankill (unionist) and my name aint billy.

 

[TerryH]

My wife is a hairdresser. She's been doing it all her life and has a good clientele. They will pay up to £80 for a hair-do, which after six weeks begins to grow out, the natural colour starts to show. After six weeks they have another cut and blow, perhaps their roots tinted, another £30.
I go around and quote £40 to change a bath tap and they look shocked. People know the cost of everything and the value of nothing as Oscar Wilde once said.

 

[efficient]

Ive had this a few times, i even show the customer a plate heat exchanger cut in half and explain what the sludge in the system will cause if they dont have a power flush.. they still take the cheaper quote and it never includes a powerflush...

 

[GQuigley67]

thats what really annoys me, woman are happy to pay silly money on a hair cut but are shocked when you charge x amount for a certain job.

also hate the people that compare it to their jobs "im only on £10 an hour and hes charging £60 for an hours work !" forgetting that we have a business to run

 

[obseen16]

its mental. i was tellin my mrs how much itll cost her mate for a boiler and fire service, my mrs said thats well expensive (told her mates rates Less than £50) she went and got her hair done the other day.... it cost her £60 to get an inch trimmed off it, and to make it worse she has to go and get her hair done every 6-12 weeks. excuse me but i only get my hair cut once every 4 months if i can be bothered after all its just hair. some people eh? tut