Plumber has caused leaks throughout the house

[Reading1986]

Hello

I thought I'd post a post.

I am currently under going a full re dec of the whole house, new flooring, skirting, architrave window boards and nice new rads.

Plumber came to fit the new rads, drained down the system. To begin the work the next day.

I had a call from the kitchen floor tilers to say there was a leak coming into the lounge ceiling / window reveal. Ruined the reveal. Needs plastering or maybe replacing

I called the plumber and he came back round to check straight away. I wasn't in at time and made my way back home straight away. Water had come in from the above bedrooms and into the lounge reveal. I got home and checked the living room out. And around the whole house. Checked everywhere. Plumber had left by the time I got there.

The next day the kitchen tilers rang again to say there is water coming coming through the kitchen ceiling ( alot of it) all over the kitchen floor. Wrecked the new kitchen plinths. Potentially the kitchen floor grout. All the other rooms have had ply laid down ready for amitco flooring. The ply had had a fair amount of water over it. Ensuite flooded. Landing carpet completely soaked around the rad area. So I've had to open an insurance claim.

The plumber is saying that both valves. The heating filling loop were letting water by. So even thou he had drained the system it was letting water by and filling the system up.

Question should he have discovered that the "valves" for the heating filling loop were at "fault" when draining the system. Or is this completely avoidable.

Now left with a huge amount of unnecessary damage. Plumber is demanding a days wage when was only there from 9 to 2pm. He's replaced the 2 valves on the filling loop as he said they were at fault. Also bearing in mind I had a rad capped off month before and some work a month before that. So the system has been drained down twice fully successfully without any issues.....oh this was done by a different plumber. Who I would normally use. But was unfortunately to busy with his schedule to fit me on for this rad work.

So has the plumber been incompetent and not checking the system correctly and making sure it's draining down correctly, also should he have had detected these issues when draining down the system, therefore avoiding all of these issues I now have / or should he have detected the issues on his second visit when I called to say i had a leak in the lounge from the rad pipes above.


Should I pay or not.....would really like some advice. Never had this much damage done or any after a trades man has been in.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Did you notice the pressure rising before the works (plumber) came in ?

also why did he leave an open end while he wasn’t there ?

also if there were passing I’m sure he would of noticed this as when he cut the pipes water would start coming out / not stop on his hose / drain down

 

[Scott_D]

Is it a combi boiler?
Any pictures of the damage?
Just that one persons flood can be anothers pint of water on the floor

 

[Reading1986]

Did you notice the pressure rising before the works (plumber) came in ?

also why did he leave an open end while he wasn’t there ?

also if there were passing I’m sure he would of noticed this as when he cut the pipes water would start coming out / not stop on his hose / drain down

No the pressure no the pressure on the gauge was all good. It's one thing I know to check and keep and eye on. For just general reasons and making sure your home is in perfect working order.

He didn't leave open ends as such, just removed the rad, so the pipe work and valves / trvs were just there.

Exactly I agree I can't see how he didn't notice this at all. The hose would have been a massive clue that the system is filling back up.

I had no issues with the heating system at all, up until now - now being water through out the house. I feel it's complete negligence but I'm not a plumber so I thought I'd ask here
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Is it a combi boiler?
Any pictures of the damage?
Just that one persons flood can be anothers pint of water on the floor

No it's not a combi boiler, it's an invented system.

Pictures there's so many.

Trust me it's a lot of water. The only rads I'm keep are the towel rails, when I got there it was coming out of the bleed valve badly.

Pint wise, I actually used a pint glass and lots of towels to catch the water. The pint glass had to be emptied 10 times

 

[ShaunCorbs]

I would be asking for his insurance Information

as tbh if he’s going to do what you’ve said and leave the rad valves open / even if there shut the trv can still open due to frost setting

remove the filling loop flexi hose but always cap your valves when you remove a rad

 

[Scott_D]

So has the TRV opened and let water out?

 

[Reading1986]

I would be asking for his insurance Information

as tbh if he’s going to do what you’ve said and leave the rad valves open / even if there shut the trv can still open due to frost setting

remove the filling loop flexi hose but always cap your valves when you remove a rad

He's demanding £250, and saying that he will let slide the 2 new filling valves that he fitted. He fitted 2 new filling valve once the water was already thought the house. He fitted them while putting blame on them failing. I said while he was fitting them that I haven't had any issues with the system over pressurising. Also said the system has been drained twice within a few months

On the phone this evening he said that the valves have probably failed due to the fact that the system had been drain twice recently. Not sure if that's at all true. I believe he's blaming the system on his negligence. If only he did his due diligence o wouldn't be in this situation.

I knew a trv could open if the temperature gets to low. But as I told the system was fully drained and would not fill-up I was confidence in him.....that water would even be in the heating system.

Why would you remove the Flexi filling hose out of interest, just trying to understand that's all.
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So has the TRV opened and let water out?

When I got home after I called to say we have a leak coming into the living room. All the trvs where fully closed, but as I'm aware a closed trv can still let water through. But obviously I paid the guy to drain the system and start the new rads the next day. So as he told me the system was fully drained and safe. Coming back the next day was his idea. Not sure why as it was only 2pm. Water was also escaping from the towel rail bleed valve's

 

[ShaunCorbs]

He's demanding £250, and saying that he will let slide the 2 new filling valves that he fitted. He fitted 2 new filling valve once the water was already thought the house. He fitted them while putting blame on them failing. I said while he was fitting them that I haven't had any issues with the system over pressurising. Also said the system has been drained twice within a few months

On the phone this evening he said that the valves have probably failed due to the fact that the system had been drain twice recently. Not sure if that's at all true. I believe he's blaming the system on his negligence. If only he did his due diligence o wouldn't be in this situation.

I knew a trv could open if the temperature gets to low. But as I told the system was fully drained and would not fill-up I was confidence in him...that water would even be in the heating system.

Why would you remove the Flexi filling hose out of interest, just trying to understand that's all.

no sorry I mean it was his responsibility to make safe eg cap any open end just in case anything happens (most often people remove rads to decorate and forget about capping then they wake up in the morning and find the trv has opened on frost and waters everywhere etc)

They don’t just fail like that, could understand if the filling loop was dripping but doesn’t open by its self

as it's drained down and things are open personal security just in case anyone accidentally opens the valves or they get nocked by sparkies wiring stuff etc
The system won’t fill without the flexi cap both valve ends where the flexi goes and your safe

 

[Reading1986]

no sorry I mean it was his responsibility to make safe eg cap any open end just in case anything happens (most often people remove rads to decorate and forget about capping then they wake up in the morning and find the trv has opened on frost and waters everywhere etc)

They don’t just fail like that, could understand if the filling loop was dripping but doesn’t open by its self

as it's drained down and things are open personal security just in case anyone accidentally opens the valves or they get nocked by sparkies wiring stuff etc
The system won’t fill without the flexi cap both valve ends where the flexi goes and your safe

Ah now I understand, belt and braces by removing the Flexi pipe and caping the rads off. Just seems that he didn't or not probably close the system off. Also he should have definitely capped off the rad valves just in case. But that wouldn't have helped the ensuite as water came out of the bleed valve. Water all over the ensuite floor, then poured into the main bed floor by 2 foot. New skirting and architrave ruined

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Ah now I understand, belt and braces by removing the Flexi pipe and caping the rads off. Just seems that he didn't or not probably close the system off. Also he should have definitely capped off the rad valves just in case. But that wouldn't have helped the ensuite as water came out of the bleed valve. Water all over the ensuite floor, then poured into the main bed floor by 2 foot. New skirting and architrave ruined

no but force of habit you always go back round when drained to close them as you can guarantee when you fill back up you won’t remember you’ve left them open

 

[JKG]

He didn’t close the bleed valves didn’t disconnect the filling loop and left open ends that’s 3 mistakes. You should be asking for he’s insurance details

 

[Reading1986]

no but force of habit you always go back round when drained to close them as you can guarantee when you fill back up you won’t remember you’ve left them open

I definitely think this could have been avoided. Now let's say both my filling loop valves were at fault. Do you think he should of noticed this. Ie he's draining while the system is filling. He feels he hasn't done any wrong. But in fact he sounds like hes done me a favour (the way he's talking on the phone) and replaced both "faulty valves" wants £250 from pretty much half a day and he'll let slide the 2 replacement valves

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Yes he should of noticed this / checked the filling loop / removed the flexi

In my opinion he’s at fault

 

[Reading1986]

Yes he should of noticed this / checked the filling loop / removed the flexi

In my opinion he’s at fault

Thank you, just a shame. Paid £380 insurance excess today. On the phone he said he wants his £250 and that the issues now in my house aren't his problem. How people sleep at night. I even said lets meet in the middle at £125, that's be being extremely generous in eyes considering the situation. The £125 is for the "faulty" filling loop valves. Which I believe he is just saying they are at fault to divert the blame. £125 for 2 £15 valves at most and fitting and leaving a customer with water damage over to floors is a win win for him I feel. I don't want to pay at all. But I don't want to take food off his table. Almost feel obliged to pay him something. But he won't accept the fault lies with him so therefore wants his £250 in full

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Wouldn’t pay anything or go through his insurance and pay him his dues eg 250 that he’s asked

 

[Reading1986]

Wouldn’t pay anything or go through his insurance and pay him his dues eg 250 that he’s asked

Seems like a good idea. I've gone through my house insurance who have said once the house is sorted they will seek the money back through his insurance company

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Seems like a good idea. I've gone through my house insurance who have said once the house is sorted they will seek the money back through his insurance company

exactly but it’s cost you your excess so that’s his payment else you will be out the full amount your already down £130

 

[Reading1986]

exactly but it’s cost you your excess so that’s his payment else you will be out the full amount your already down £130

Exactly fully agree I'm already out of pocket

 

[Darren Jackson]

Ok! He is definitely at fault here and his incompetence has caused your flooding.
1st of all you never ever leave a filling loop attached it is against regulations. It has always to be disconnected and capped to ensure let by doesn't happen and also to enable backflow protection to stop the mains drinking water becoming contaminated.
2ndly he's has not put any caps onto the TRV's when he has removed the radiators. Any plumber worth his salt knows it is the same as leaving an open end if they are not capped. It only takes a slight drop in room temperature and hey Presto, they open up and dump water everywhere. A big no no and your lucky to get away without capping a TRV in the middle of summer let alone in winter when you've got zero chance of it staying shut.
And 3rd he has left bleed valves open and once again this smacks of incompetence.
You need to point out to him that you intend to seek compensation from him and do not pay him another penny. Do not feel sorry for him this is all his own fault and take this further he sounds like a cowboy to me.

 

[Reading1986]

Ok! He is definitely at fault here and his incompetence has caused your flooding.
1st of all you never ever leave a filling loop attached it is against regulations. It has always to be disconnected and capped to ensure let by doesn't happen and also to enable backflow protection to stop the mains drinking water becoming contaminated.
2ndly he's has not put any caps onto the TRV's when he has removed the radiators. Any plumber worth his salt knows it is the same as leaving an open end if they are not capped. It only takes a slight drop in room temperature and hey Presto, they open up and dump water everywhere. A big no no and your lucky to get away without capping a TRV in the middle of summer let alone in winter when you've got zero chance of it staying shut.
And 3rd he has left bleed valves open and once again this smacks of incompetence.
You need to point out to him that you intend to seek compensation from him and do not pay him another penny. Do not feel sorry for him this is all his own fault and take this further he sounds like a cowboy to me.

Thank you Darren for you very detailed reply. And to all the replies I've had on here. I'm glad I've posted on here, didn't know whether I'd get completely shot down on. I've got some really consistent replies. Which is great. Thank you again

 

[Stigster]

Thank you Darren for you very detailed reply. And to all the replies I've had on here. I'm glad I've posted on here, didn't know whether I'd get completely shot down on. I've got some really consistent replies. Which is great. Thank you again

As has been properly pointed out here, there have been easily identifiable and preventable mistakes made by the plumber.

Just to recap -

He left the filling loop hose connected.

He left the bleed valves on the rads open.

He didn't cap off the radiator valves which is no different to leaving open ends. It doesn't matter they have valves, you still blank off a valve wherever you have one with one side not connected to anything. The only exception to that would be the old Type-B drain cock with the hose connection on but that's not what leaked in your house.

 

[Reading1986]

As has been properly pointed out here, there have been easily identifiable and preventable mistakes made by the plumber.

Just to recap -

He left the filling loop hose connected.

He left the bleed valves on the rads open.

He didn't cap off the radiator valves which is no different to leaving open ends. It doesn't matter they have valves, you still blank off a valve wherever you have one with one side not connected to anything. The only exception to that would be the old Type-B drain cock with the hose connection on but that's not what leaked in your house.

Thank you very much Stigster, this all points out that he didn't make the correct precautions, especially as we was leaving the house like that to come back the next day

 

[SimonG]

House unoccupied?

Let's look at it slightly differently.

Plumber goes in, drains down (did he drain the system or just the roads he took off?).
Let's say he drained down.
Took of x number of rads, didn't cap valves as system drained.
Yes filling loop still attached, yet who can say that they don't see this more than 95% of the time. Plus is it a separate filling loop or built into boiler like a worcester?

Third party working in property, ooh it's a bit nippy in here, I will shot the heating on. Oops, no pressure, never mind it's just like mine at home, I'll stick some water in it.

Splash.

Just trying to play devils advocate and always 2 sides to a story.

 

[Reading1986]

House unoccupied?

Let's look at it slightly differently.

Plumber goes in, drains down (did he drain the system or just the roads he took off?).
Let's say he drained down.
Took of x number of rads, didn't cap valves as system drained.
Yes filling loop still attached, yet who can say that they don't see this more than 95% of the time. Plus is it a separate filling loop or built into boiler like a worcester?

Third party working in property, ooh it's a bit nippy in here, I will shot the heating on. Oops, no pressure, never mind it's just like mine at home, I'll stick some water in it.

Splash.

Just trying to play devils advocate and always 2 sides to a story.

The house isn't unoccupied, I wasnt due to stay there that night any way

The filling loop is a separate one not built-in to the boiler. The filling is just above the cylinder.
No else touched the heating system apart from him. Yes I had the kitchen tillers in but they left at 4pm and the plumber came back just after they had left ( second visit) for the first reported leak.

 

[Gasmk1]

No else touched the heating system apart from him. Yes I had the kitchen tillers in but they left at 4pm and the plumber came back just after they had left ( second visit) for the first reported leak. not saying not his fault but could tilers have tried to fill it as they wanted a bit of heat.

 

[Reading1986]

No else touched the heating system apart from him. Yes I had the kitchen tillers in but they left at 4pm and the plumber came back just after they had left ( second visit) for the first reported leak. not saying not his fault but could tilers have tried to fill it as they wanted a bit of heat.

No not a all as I have nest and all the heating electrics we're off. But surely he should have capped trv ends and capped the filling loop. When he came back at 4pm and he was the only one on the house surely then he should of realized the issues. And then definitely capped off to ensure no further leaking?

 

[SJB060685]

He didn’t close the bleed valves didn’t disconnect the filling loop and left open ends that’s 3 mistakes. You should be asking for he’s insurance details

I'm willing to bet if hes that careless on the job he probably doesn't have insurance

 

[SimonG]

Like I said only playing devils advocate. Hope you get it sorted.

 

[Darren Jackson]

Agreed there are always 2 sides to a story!
But at the end of the day, the op hired a professional. Who's job is to anticipate the possible interference from a third party, be it another trade person, a tenant, a minor or home owner that does not realise or know not to top up the pressure. A true professional would have made a quick risk assessment and eliminated the possibility of this happening with just a few good practice measures which lets face it, should always be carried out regardless of the property being occupied or not just to protect the property, decoration & contents. In my mind the plumber is guilty of negligence and needs to be brought to justice. Not try to blame a faulty filling loop and try to make more money out of it. Because even if the valves were faulty (which I don't believe) but given the benefit of the doubt, he still should have followed simple procedure and the flooding would not have happened faulty valves or not.

 

[Reading1986]

Agreed there are always 2 sides to a story!
But at the end of the day, the op hired a professional. Who's job is to anticipate the possible interference from a third party, be it another trade person, a tenant, a minor or home owner that does not realise or know not to top up the pressure. A true professional would have made a quick risk assessment and eliminated the possibility of this happening with just a few good practice measures which lets face it, should always be carried out regardless of the property being occupied or not just to protect the property, decoration & contents. In my mind the plumber is guilty of negligence and needs to be brought to justice. Not try to blame a faulty filling loop and try to make more money out of it. Because even if the valves were faulty (which I don't believe) but given the benefit of the doubt, he still should have followed simple procedure and the flooding would not have happened faulty valves or not.

Couldn't agree any more. I still have water dripping out of trvs. When he came back the next day which I think I said he did. He capped off both ends of the filling loop. But obviously the damage was already caused. So he did the right thing at the wrong time. Unfortunately Im now left with lots of damage, a big insurance claim. Dripping trvs and a plumber demanding £250 for a days wage. Also to add insult he only done 4 hours. £250 for 4 hours. That's from the time he pulled up to the time he pulled off the drive way. Insurance company sent out a company to start the drying process. I've got these great big dryer's in the house....there pretty cool. So far the insurance process has been relatively straightforward. The only thing they have said which I worried about is that the lose adjuster may consider the damage to each rooms as individual insurance claims. I.e 5 rooms damaged = 5 X £380 insurance excess.

 

[king of pipes]

Always two sides to a story but open ends needed capping if this had been done the passing filling loop would not have caused the problem and as the others have stated in a ideal world it also should be disconnected and capped, I feel for you here it doesn't take much to ruin your home surfaces and decor but I doubt he will admit liability seems a bit unprofessional but plenty of them out there we all get leaks from time to time it's a hazard of the job but you need to bend over backwards to rectify the issue and treat the customer and their property with respect hope it all gets resolved Regards Kop.

 

[Scott_D]

Why don’t ask your insurance provider what they recommend about paying the plumber and getting his insurance details etc?

 

[Reading1986]

Why don’t ask your insurance provider what they recommend about paying the plumber and getting his insurance details etc?

I was planning to do that. He's called and messaged for the money. I'm already £380 down on the insurance excess. And of the insurance company deem the damage to each room separate then it will be £380 per room.

 

[Darren Jackson]

Issue him with an invoice for the damage he has caused minus his fee.put it in writing that you will gladly pay his fee once he has rectified the damage he had caused. I would not give him a penny until you have your property back the same as it was before he started.

 

[Reading1986]

Issue him with an invoice for the damage he has caused minus his fee.put it in writing that you will gladly pay his fee once he has rectified the damage he had caused. I would not give him a penny until you have your property back the same as it was before he started.

I would gladly pay his fee if he puts the damage right. Or contacts his insurance. I'm getting zero help from him. All he is saying that the filling loop caused the problem and all the damage to my house is not his problem. You cant reason with people like that at all

 

[Phil]

I would want to have a good look at the filling loop and lets see if it is really passing, I bet he says hes thrown it away.

 

[bacon_sandwich]

My advice is that this will get worse before if gets better (financially).
I would not advise paying the plumber at all.
I would give all the plumbers details to your insurance company and let them pursue the claim against him, it takes time.
I would get confirmation from the insurance company in writing that they are going to pursue the plumber for all costs including your excess(es)
If the plumber pursues payment, you may refer them to your insurance company who are handling the case.
You are quite within your rights to be made whole at no cost to yourself.
The plumber should pay for all damage and clean up.

Reasons are: Water damage caused by opening up the heating system:
1. Water not isolated either at the filling loop or mains incoming.
2. Bleed valves left open
3. TRV's used as stop ends (totally un-acceptable)
4. Drain valves assumed shut off, rather than left open with pipe to drain.

It is true that maybe in our own home we may take short cuts like leaving TRVs open, relying on filling loop, but i have only ever done this on-site when i am the only one there and i would not leave like that, also i always leave the drain lines open until i am finished with any modifications (this is mainly due to deal with any shifting water.

Hope it all works out

 

[Reading1986]

I would want to have a good look at the filling loop and lets see if it is really passing, I bet he says hes thrown it away.

Phil you are correct, I've asked for the old filling loop and he said he has thrown it away. When I asked, it was literally a few hours are he removed and replaced the filling loop. I said I needed it as the insurance company has asked for it. Which they have
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My advice is that this will get worse before if gets better (financially).
I would not advise paying the plumber at all.
I would give all the plumbers details to your insurance company and let them pursue the claim against him, it takes time.
I would get confirmation from the insurance company in writing that they are going to pursue the plumber for all costs including your excess(es)
If the plumber pursues payment, you may refer them to your insurance company who are handling the case.
You are quite within your rights to be made whole at no cost to yourself.
The plumber should pay for all damage and clean up.

Reasons are: Water damage caused by opening up the heating system:
1. Water not isolated either at the filling loop or mains incoming.
2. Bleed valves left open
3. TRV's used as stop ends (totally un-acceptable)
4. Drain valves assumed shut off, rather than left open with pipe to drain.

It is true that maybe in our own home we may take short cuts like leaving TRVs open, relying on filling loop, but i have only ever done this on-site when i am the only one there and i would not leave like that, also i always leave the drain lines open until i am finished with any modifications (this is mainly due to deal with any shifting water.

Hope it all works out

Thank you bacon_sandwich all of your information was extremely helpful. I'm no plumber, but when he came back because of the flooding and he started blaming the filling loop that when I question him about how he turned the filling loop off. All he said was I put my head in the airing cupboard saw that the filling hose was attached but turned off. "So I just left it like that" I said shouldn't you have capped off etc to ensure the system wasn't letting by and filling up. He said no. Completely understand if your "drain pipe" going outside is attached all day and your completing the works in 1 day and your present at the property. He left the house at around 2pm ish. Left bleed valve's open, trvs closed but not open. Actually I found one or 2 that were open a little. And obviously left the filling loop attached and didn't remove it and cap. Heating wasn't required over night and it was his choice to leave at 2 and come back the next day. Had made the system safe by capping etc or completing the works in one day etc. We wouldn't be in this situation. Regarding insurance etc I do intend to pass his details over to the insurance company as they have already requested this information

 

[centralheatking]

Phil you are correct, I've asked for the old filling loop and he said he has thrown it away. When I asked, it was literally a few hours are he removed and replaced the filling loop. I said I needed it as the insurance company has asked for it. Which they have
[automerge]1578753091[/automerge]

Thank you bacon_sandwich all of your information was extremely helpful. I'm no plumber, but when he came back because of the flooding and he started blaming the filling loop that when I question him about how he turned the filling loop off. All he said was I put my head in the airing cupboard saw that the filling hose was attached but turned off. "So I just left it like that" I said shouldn't you have capped off etc to ensure the system wasn't letting by and filling up. He said no. Completely understand if your "drain pipe" going outside is attached all day and your completing the works in 1 day and your present at the property. He left the house at around 2pm ish. Left bleed valve's open, trvs closed but not open. Actually I found one or 2 that were open a little. And obviously left the filling loop attached and didn't remove it and cap. Heating wasn't required over night and it was his choice to leave at 2 and come back the next day. Had made the system safe by capping etc or completing the works in one day etc. We wouldn't be in this situation. Regarding insurance etc I do intend to pass his details over to the insurance company as they have already requested this information

I have read all this post carefully and watched it unfold. I have been in this industry since 1981 and have employed many engineers and been responsible for 4/6 thousand systems of all sorts. Maybe more
My View.
1. Do not pay the contractor at all , inform him directly with your reasons. Ask him to reply.
2. Write a detailed diary inc. dates and times of this whole sorry episode
3. Put it into the hands of professionals ...esp. your insurance co.
4. Engage a good heating engineering outfit to a. check your system over
b. produce a report/survey
I think if this sits right with you expect nothing from this Trumpton plumber and ask nothing from him
litigation leaves everybody ...even the innocent with dirty hands...my Mrs is a (nice) barrister and always suggests this way if possible. However if this 'plumber' has assets for you to claim on go in high
and get a really aggressive legal usually with a scruffy high st office to open upon him. centralheatking

 

[Reading1986]

I have read all this post carefully and watched it unfold. I have been in this industry since 1981 and have employed many engineers and been responsible for 4/6 thousand systems of all sorts. Maybe more
My View.
1. Do not pay the contractor at all , inform him directly with your reasons. Ask him to reply.
2. Write a detailed diary inc. dates and times of this whole sorry episode
3. Put it into the hands of professionals ...esp. your insurance co.
4. Engage a good heating engineering outfit to a. check your system over
b. produce a report/survey
I think if this sits right with you expect nothing from this Trumpton plumber and ask nothing from him
litigation leaves everybody ...even the innocent with dirty hands...my Mrs is a (nice) barrister and always suggests this way if possible. However if this 'plumber' has assets for you to claim on go in high
and get a really aggressive legal usually with a scruffy high st office to open upon him. centralheatking

Hello centralheatking
Thank you for help and information. I have already instructed my insurance company. They have asked for all his information and they have already said that they would open a case up with him / his insurance company to get money back that the insurance claim costs

 

[Reading1986]

So my insurance have approved my claim which is one less headache which is good. Plumber has sent an invoice over, he's push the price up from £250 to £270 on the invoice. I told the plumber that I am passing the invoice over to my insurance company. I believe once the insurance claim has been sorted, they will try to recover the claim through his insurance company. Check a trade shows he has 2 million liability insurance. Invoice wise I'm still struggling to know what to do....do I pay? If my insurance recover the loses through his insurance company I will get my £380 excess back. I feel if I get my excess back then i definitely should pay his bill. But only once I get my excess back. Dose this sound unreasonable? At the moment I'm left with damage to my home, £380 excess. So I can't justify paying his invoice at the moment.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

I wouldn’t not until it’s all sorted and you get your money back from his insurance then you pay

 

[Reading1986]

I wouldn’t not until it’s all sorted and you get your money back from his insurance then you pay

That's what I was thinking, once everything is resolved house wise and I have my insurance excess back then of course I'd pay the invoice. Should he be pushing the invoice up? Seems strange

 

[centralheatking]

That's what I was thinking, once everything is resolved house wise and I have my insurance excess back then of course I'd pay the invoice. Should he be pushing the invoice up? Seems strange

You are correct, let him know that his invoice will be settled after the insurance has been straightened out. If you pay him it might look like you are satisfied with his work. Refer him to your insurance company ...centralheatking

 

[Reading1986]

You are correct, let him know that his invoice will be settled after the insurance has been straightened out. If you pay him it might look like you are satisfied with his work. Refer him to your insurance company ...centralheatking

That's also what I thought, if I pay I'm almost saying thank you for your good work oh and the leak, here's your invoice paid in full. But I agree paying shows that I'm satisfied with the works

 

[Scott_D]

Have your insurance company requested his details?

 

[Reading1986]

Have your insurance company requested his details?

Yes they asked for the invoice he sent over. Which I forwarded over to them. Is that the correct thing to do?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Yes they asked for the invoice he sent over. Which I forwarded over to them. Is that the correct thing to do?

Yep

If he calls again tell him it’s in the hands of the insurance and there In contact With his

 

[Reading1986]

Yep

If he calls again tell him it’s in the hands of the insurance and there In contact With his

Thank you, I feel like a little grass. But as a business owner (him) he can't behave in this manner. You cant flood someone's house and cause leaks....then ask for payment as if all is fine. I can't believe the front he has. I'd be so embarrassed if I did this. Especially only being established on companies house for 3 months.

 

[bacon_sandwich]

Well he is maintaining it was not his fault, so of course he would be expecting payment for all his good works. However you hold him responsible for flooding the house which, it is reasonable , not to pay for such a poor service. There in lies the dispute. The only issue i can see is if your insurance company decide not to pursue his insurance company for the loss, however you can still deal with this outside of the insurance process. Do not pay, is my advice, its not a good sign

 

[centralheatking]

Thank you, I feel like a little grass. But as a business owner (him) he can't behave in this manner. You cant flood someone's house and cause leaks....then ask for payment as if all is fine. I can't believe the front he has. I'd be so embarrassed if I did this. Especially only being established on companies house for 3 months.

Ok Reading1986 now is the time to sit back ...you have done all that is required..things are in hand with experts..leave them to it. As above my wife is a barrister of many years experience you must now leave it ...you have been wronged but never let it take over..she knows these things. chking

 

[Reading1986]

Ok Reading1986 now is the time to sit back ...you have done all that is required..things are in hand with experts..leave them to it. As above my wife is a barrister of many years experience you must now leave it ...you have been wronged but never let it take over..she knows these things. chking

So I'm insurance company called him and all is currently going through. I do believe my insurance company will try to recover the costs once the insurance claim has gone through. He messaged me today to ask for payment again. He told me that my insurance company told me to pay him. Called the insurance company to check this out it's completely untrue. All they was to ascertain whether is was the person that worked on the system that shortly then leaked. So I called the plumber and said very politely that this is untrue and the lose adjuster was simply gathering information regarding the claim. He then said when are you paying me. I said at the moment until the claim is fully resolved and I have got my £380 back. Then I will pay your invoice in full. I also ask if this invoice was for one days labour which I said it was. Then I politely said but you only did 4 hours. He then said ok give me £180 cash today. This guy is literally unbelievable. So by the fact he went out from £270 to £180 he knows he's done wrong and accepted that he only did 4 hours. All I did was mentioned is real working time on my house and he dropped it straight away. He then said can I have the £180 today I said once the insurance has fully paid and I have recovered by loses i.e excess. Really don't no what do here. Do I inform my insurance company about him directly as up to now only the lose adjuster who is a separate company is aware of who he and his company are?

 

[centralheatking]

yes tell your insurance company directly, tell them he is putting you under undue pressure. A call to trading standards would no go amiss on identical lines. He comes over as a chancer with no feeling of guilt. Do not pay him tell him not to contact you again. If he persists bullying you have a word with your local police. Centralheatking

 

[Best]

Only contact the plumber in written form where possible and take care in what you write. Basically you want the plumber to state all the bull and show his hand.
Emails and even text messages are also verification of communications (if they get responses), so do keep them.
Pay the plumber nothing and say in any correspondence to him that your insurance has advised you they are dealing with the plumber together hopefully with his insurance about your claim for damages to your property.

 

[oz-plumber]

I get the feeling you are being 'ridden' by the insurance company - 5 claims and 5 excesses - on 1 property and one heating system.
No Judge would accept that in Court - You would need an individual insurance policy on every room of your house for that to take effect.

The Plumber: - all correspondence to be via email from now on.
Get him to email you a detailed 'scope of works' on the invoice.

If it is a Regulation that the filling loop is to be disconnected from the heating system then question him after the detailed invoice has been sent through.

If the detailed invoice doesn't satisfy you, keep questioning him until there is something that he admits to that doesn't comply with the Regulations and you will have him.
Try to get him to accept you original offer of 50% and put it against the Insurance Claim - due to being under duress.

 

[Reading1986]

I get the feeling you are being 'ridden' by the insurance company - 5 claims and 5 excesses - on 1 property and one heating system.
No Judge would accept that in Court - You would need an individual insurance policy on every room of your house for that to take effect.

The Plumber: - all correspondence to be via email from now on.
Get him to email you a detailed 'scope of works' on the invoice.

If it is a Regulation that the filling loop is to be disconnected from the heating system then question him after the detailed invoice has been sent through.

If the detailed invoice doesn't satisfy you, keep questioning him until there is something that he admits to that doesn't comply with the Regulations and you will have him.
Try to get him to accept you original offer of 50% and put it against the Insurance Claim - due to being under duress.

Regarding the multiple insurance claims, it's been put down as only 1 claim which is the correct thing. They should never have suggested that it would be multiple claims until they had all the facts. After they reviewed the claim they have confirmed one claim.

He's been pestering for his money and has put be under a lot of pressure to settle. I called him and said you only did 4 hours. I only asked what dose he call a "days labour" he replied 8 hours. Because of the amount of pressure from him I have unfortunately paid £180. 180 isn't half 250 or 270. So I'm not sure where is 180 came from. But it's paid and I have had legal advice. The legal advice was me asking if I pay will this impact recovery of the costs to my home. Sounds bad but I really don't care about the 180. He was taking up to much of my time and worry.

Regarding regulations of how to drain down a system and capp etc. I have a series of very detailed photos and videos of the leak in progress and it clearly shows that closing of bleed valve's didn't happen. Clearly shows that the open ends weren't capped. Also shows that the filling loop wasn't correctly isolated

 

[centralheatking]

Regarding the multiple insurance claims, it's been put down as only 1 claim which is the correct thing. They should never have suggested that it would be multiple claims until they had all the facts. After they reviewed the claim they have confirmed one claim.

He's been pestering for his money and has put be under a lot of pressure to settle. I called him and said you only did 4 hours. I only asked what dose he call a "days labour" he replied 8 hours. Because of the amount of pressure from him I have unfortunately paid £180. 180 isn't half 250 or 270. So I'm not sure where is 180 came from. But it's paid and I have had legal advice. The legal advice was me asking if I pay will this impact recovery of the costs to my home. Sounds bad but I really don't care about the 180. He was taking up to much of my time and worry.

Regarding regulations of how to drain down a system and capp etc. I have a series of very detailed photos and videos of the leak in progress and it clearly shows that closing of bleed valve's didn't happen. Clearly shows that the open ends weren't capped. Also shows that the filling loop wasn't correctly isolated

How dreadfull to be put under such pressure like that, I feel ashamed on behalf of our trade.
I certainly would have held out but peace of mind is paramount and as you say £180 as a kiss off to this terd of the first order will relax you... regards centralheatking

 

[Best]

Regarding the multiple insurance claims, it's been put down as only 1 claim which is the correct thing. They should never have suggested that it would be multiple claims until they had all the facts. After they reviewed the claim they have confirmed one claim.

He's been pestering for his money and has put be under a lot of pressure to settle. I called him and said you only did 4 hours. I only asked what dose he call a "days labour" he replied 8 hours. Because of the amount of pressure from him I have unfortunately paid £180. 180 isn't half 250 or 270. So I'm not sure where is 180 came from. But it's paid and I have had legal advice. The legal advice was me asking if I pay will this impact recovery of the costs to my home. Sounds bad but I really don't care about the 180. He was taking up to much of my time and worry.

Regarding regulations of how to drain down a system and capp etc. I have a series of very detailed photos and videos of the leak in progress and it clearly shows that closing of bleed valve's didn't happen. Clearly shows that the open ends weren't capped. Also shows that the filling loop wasn't correctly isolated

Why did you pay the plumber any money? What pressure did he put on you?
He did a job for you and as a direct result of that it seems your house got flooded from open valves. I see no reason for any payment for such work to the plumber, but clearly you need compensation for all the damage.
The new filling loop work second job is different and that is fair enough for payment.
Now that you have paid some money looks like you were at least partly satisfied with the plumbers work. Were you? I would guess not.
Wouldn’t surprise me if the plumber knew it was to his advantage.
I wouldn’t take pressure from anyone

 

[Reading1986]

How dreadfull to be put under such pressure like that, I feel ashamed on behalf of our trade.
I certainly would have held out but peace of mind is paramount and as you say £180 as a kiss off to this terd of the first order will relax you... regards centralheatking

Honestly sounds very odd but the peace of mind I have now, from paying his bill or re agreed bill. It's one less worry. While I won't get that back. I have my claim going through, and they have confirmed they will be recovering all costs from his insurance company. But by paying him my line of communication between me and him thankfully has gone. Honestly horrible person to deal with. Extremely aggressive. Still to this day blaming the mains side filling loop valve. Had closed the system side as well, removed the filling hose and capped. Also capped open ends and closed bleed valve's.....all of this wouldn't have happened. I done a fair amount of investigation of my own into how he should of isolated the system correctly etc. I actually think I could have done a better and more professional job

 

[Best]

Your first post asked should you pay the plumber. Advice given here was generally do not pay him.
If your story was correct, it was clear circumstances where you do not need to pay your plumber for the first job.
You employed a supposed professional but got unprofessional work - in fact incorrect and a very risky procedure done, which the plumber is fully liable.
Advice to inform plumber it was the insurances dealing with all monies was good advice

 

[ShaunCorbs]

I think you’ve done the wrong thing but let’s hope everything is ok regarding the claim as he can say Everything was fine as you’ve paid the bill

I hope the best for you

 

[Reading1986]

Your first post asked should you pay the plumber. Advice given here was generally do not pay him.
If your story was correct, it was clear circumstances where you do not need to pay your plumber for the first job.
You employed a supposed professional but got unprofessional work - in fact incorrect and a very risky procedure done, which the plumber is fully liable.
Advice to inform plumber it was the insurances dealing with all monies was good advice

My story is 100% correct. He was messaging every other day asking for the invoice to be paid. The filling loop was not the issue at all. I paid to get him off case. I am no where near satisfied with his work or his conduct. He got aggressive on the phone. I have a 2 week old baby and frankly I have far more important things to worry about than a planet demanding money for a completely bad job. Capping end and capping the filling loop seems to be a standard procedure. He used the filling loop as an excuse to not hold him self negligible
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I think you’ve done the wrong thing but let’s hope everything is ok regarding the claim as he can say Everything was fine as you’ve paid the bill

I hope the best for you

I know I've done the wrong thing completely. Regarding the claim me paying will not affect my claim or my insurance company recovering the money from insurance company
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Why did you pay the plumber any money? What pressure did he put on you?
He did a job for you and as a direct result of that it seems your house got flooded from open valves. I see no reason for any payment for such work to the plumber, but clearly you need compensation for all the damage.
The new filling loop work second job is different and that is fair enough for payment.
Now that you have paid some money looks like you were at least partly satisfied with the plumbers work. Were you? I would guess not.
Wouldn’t surprise me if the plumber knew it was to his advantage.
I wouldn’t take pressure from anyone

He was messaging every other day asking for money, even though every other day I told him I will pay your invoice once my home has been put back to the condition it was on before he entered my home. May look like I'm a little bit satisfied...but I'm not at all I've got a big claim going through. The stress and the inconvenience and him messaging and calling for the money. I just paid to get rid of him. The filling loop I'm pretty sure wasn't faulty. For one he didn't close the system side valve. So how dose that make it faulty. Ok the mains side let by a little. Capp it and replace a £10 valve....no problem. He used the filling loop as an excuse for flooding my home.

 

[rpm]

Can't believe that this has taken 66 posts where as it was really dealt with in the first few replies.

 

[Reading1986]

Can't believe that this has taken 66 posts where as it was really dealt with in the first few replies.

Well I am sorry, people and my self were posting because they are interested maybe even concern that trades are conducting themselves in this manner.

 

[rpm]

That's not what I meant at all!

 

[Reading1986]

That's not what I meant at all!

My apologies what did you mean by your post?

 

[centralheatking]

Can't believe that this has taken 66 posts where as it was really dealt with in the first few replies.

Maybe there others that might like to see their options in this sorry situation. I agree with you in many ways as I am a business man with legal advice on tap and been around the block many times and this would have been sorted at source on the day. However PF is here to assist all with things related and others are not so savvy as us. Centralheatking

 

[Reading1986]

Maybe there others that might like to see their options in this sorry situation. I agree with you in many ways as I am a business man with legal advice on tap and been around the block many times and this would have been sorted at source on the day. However PF is here to assist all with things related and others are not so savvy as us. Centralheatking

Thank you completely agree. Had I known what do, I wouldn't have posted. Never been in a situation where a trades man has done so so wrong and didn't have the respect or decency to put his hands up. Thank you for every ones comments.

 

[SJB060685]

Can I just say Reading1986 that I genuinely feel for you and the trauma you've suffered but I should point out that more often than not tradesmen you find on these search sites aren't that good, a good tradesmen doesn't need to advertise, it's all through word of mouth.

 

[Reading1986]

Can I just say Reading1986 that I genuinely feel for you and the trauma you've suffered but I should point out that more often than not tradesmen you find on these search sites aren't that good, a good tradesmen doesn't need to advertise, it's all through word of mouth.

Funny you say that I was recommended him from a friend. So he was found via word of mouth. But I generally agree with you. I never use for example check a trade to find a tradesmen. Suppose I've just been really really unlucky with this recommendation

 

[Spectric]

Hi all

Any decent tradesman would want to deliver quality work and total customer satisfaction and never leave a job in such a way as it could cause flooding. It is not hard to ensure a system is either drained and cannot refill or is filled and any unfinished sections are sealed of / caped.

This reminds me of the house I brought some years back, the owner moved out and left it without any heating and it froze bursting several pipes. I came along for a viewing and apart from the obvious water damage there was no water supply in the utility or main bathroom. On investigation the plumber had just cut the burst pipes and capped them so the rest still worked. So the seller got the plumbers back to resolve and they could not fix without damage to the bathroom and making a hole in a wall to access above the utility room so I agreed to forget the utility but fix the bathroom and adjust the house price accordingly. Two weeks later I came back for another viewing before signing on the dotted line and there was water leaking everywhere. This time I found two endfeeds that had been fluxed and not soldered, several loose compression fittings one which had the olive missing and on one run of pipe there was 3 isolation valves and 4 couplings in a two metre length!!! Plumbers turned up and repaired what they could, they were about to leave when I asked why there were not going to pressure test the system for leaks and they replied they did not currently have one that worked and when questioned about the number of fittings used they said it was there trainee who had no tube left so connected up the offcuts. I am now semi retired but every job I did I left knowing I had done a job that I could be proud of and happy to put my name to, this attitude seems to be slipping away and the cowboys are giving everyone a bad name.

 

[Ric2013]

Can I just say Reading1986 that I genuinely feel for you and the trauma you've suffered but I should point out that more often than not tradesmen you find on these search sites aren't that good, a good tradesmen doesn't need to advertise, it's all through word of mouth.

So if I have I customers who say they are happy (they even come back for further works) and even have some recommendations, why wasn't I getting enough work without advertising? My theory is that I'm not really interested in the big jobs (I'm small and skinny and so's my van) and I'm quite happy with repairs and improvements plus I don't do gas, so I don't have the repeat custom of annual checks and servicing. I was planning on advertising (then shi* happened and I ended up being stuck abroad).

I don't think, however, that I'm not good at what I do. (I'm actually very self critical, but then I compare myself with the competition and realise I'm well above average). I don't think think we should write off plumbers who advertise just because they advertise. Making a name for yourself takes significant time, and you may need to make a living before you naturally develop the contacts you need to get enough work by word of mouth.
[automerge]1599311667[/automerge]

they were about to leave when I asked why there were not going to pressure test the system for leaks and they replied they did not currently have one that worked

Technically correct - it would make sense to pressure test. However, in practice, a very slight weep will often not show in a standard water pressure test and very customers are prepared to pay the extra time a pressure test would take. Obviously it depends on the circustances, but in repair and modification work, a visual inspection is often far more useful than a pressure test. I can therefore understand why a minority of plumbers own pressure testers: they aren't actually very often brought into play. Obviously in your case, there was presumably hidden pipework and a pressure test would have made sense and been something you would have wanted to pay for. To be fair, a reasonably good test could have been made using just the mains pressure.

 

[Spectric]

Hi there

I would have accepted a slight weep but they had produced an indoor water feature! They did not even inspect their work and knowing the state of the pipework I would have pressure tested just to prove that there were no more leaks.

On a positive note their shody work meant I got a good reduction in the price of the house and have now replaced all the pipework and done it properly. In the days of when lead solder was the norm I rarely pressure tested because I never had any problems but still not convinced with lead free.

 

[Pickwickpick]

So if I have I customers who say they are happy (they even come back for further works) and even have some recommendations, why wasn't I getting enough work without advertising? My theory is that I'm not really interested in the big jobs (I'm small and skinny and so's my van) and I'm quite happy with repairs and improvements plus I don't do gas, so I don't have the repeat custom of annual checks and servicing. I was planning on advertising (then shi* happened and I ended up being stuck abroad).

I don't think, however, that I'm not good at what I do. (I'm actually very self critical, but then I compare myself with the competition and realise I'm well above average). I don't think think we should write off plumbers who advertise just because they advertise. Making a name for yourself takes significant time, and you may need to make a living before you naturally develop the contacts you need to get enough work by word of mouth.
[automerge]1599311667[/automerge]

Totally agree, every good plumber that doesn't need to advertise had to start somewhere and that will have involved advertising of some shape or form, unless they were e.g. an apprentis and took over the business with its pre existing customers. Also as much as word of mouth recommendations are best, its still not a guarantee, just the other week I was fixing a mess left behind by a plumber that had been recommended by one of the customer's neighbours.

I've had to move my work from London back to Birmingham due to Covid as can't stay in the house I used to during the week. It all happened with very little notice so had to use one of the dreaded websites to drum up work while I build up word of mouth. If you focus on smaller jobs (as I'm also doing at the moment) as you say its a lot harder to reliably fill your week up without some form of advertising.

 

[Nwalky]

Hello

I thought I'd post a post.

I am currently under going a full re dec of the whole house, new flooring, skirting, architrave window boards and nice new rads.

Plumber came to fit the new rads, drained down the system. To begin the work the next day.

I had a call from the kitchen floor tilers to say there was a leak coming into the lounge ceiling / window reveal. Ruined the reveal. Needs plastering or maybe replacing

I called the plumber and he came back round to check straight away. I wasn't in at time and made my way back home straight away. Water had come in from the above bedrooms and into the lounge reveal. I got home and checked the living room out. And around the whole house. Checked everywhere. Plumber had left by the time I got there.

The next day the kitchen tilers rang again to say there is water coming coming through the kitchen ceiling ( alot of it) all over the kitchen floor. Wrecked the new kitchen plinths. Potentially the kitchen floor grout. All the other rooms have had ply laid down ready for amitco flooring. The ply had had a fair amount of water over it. Ensuite flooded. Landing carpet completely soaked around the rad area. So I've had to open an insurance claim.

The plumber is saying that both valves. The heating filling loop were letting water by. So even thou he had drained the system it was letting water by and filling the system up.

Question should he have discovered that the "valves" for the heating filling loop were at "fault" when draining the system. Or is this completely avoidable.

Now left with a huge amount of unnecessary damage. Plumber is demanding a days wage when was only there from 9 to 2pm. He's replaced the 2 valves on the filling loop as he said they were at fault. Also bearing in mind I had a rad capped off month before and some work a month before that. So the system has been drained down twice fully successfully without any issues...oh this was done by a different plumber. Who I would normally use. But was unfortunately to busy with his schedule to fit me on for this rad work.

So has the plumber been incompetent and not checking the system correctly and making sure it's draining down correctly, also should he have had detected these issues when draining down the system, therefore avoiding all of these issues I now have / or should he have detected the issues on his second visit when I called to say i had a leak in the lounge from the rad pipes above.


Should I pay or not...would really like some advice. Never had this much damage done or any after a trades man has been in.

To be fair, we had a very similar experience recently where we had drained an unvented heating system. 2 days later we got a call to say that water had came through the ceiling.

Dont get me wrong, we were maybe a bit more complacent than normal because the house was a gut out and getting completely redone. If the house was in such a state that it was getting tiled or decorated then we would have blanked valves etc.

What happened in our circumstance was the gate valve at the F&E tank was old and passing ever so slightly, so even though we drained it at the MT cock outside, it was passing so slowly that we wouldn't have even known.

I always like to give the benefit of the doubt and you could argue that the system having been drained down recently could have affected the old valve at the tank and it was then starting to pass but at the same time if the house was in such a condition that water damage would be catastrophic with regards finishing then more precautions should have been taken.

If it were me and I had caused damaged to a finished house I dont think I would have the brass balls to then demand that I be paid for the shift that I spent there. I think I would just take the hit, apologise and then the customer can at least use the money I was to get to pay towards any remedial work.

I think I've convinced myself actually, the guy made an arse of it, end of

 

[bear]

I came upon this once on a new build flat. The plumber was at fault (not me btw!!). 3 flats and this was the top one. He fitted the boiler etc, pressurised the central heating, shut it off then went home. The next day he would pipe the blow off (combi boiler). Unfortunately he NEVER shut off the filling loop properly so the heating pressurised and kept going until 3 bar, at that point the blow off opened and trickled water ALL night in that flat. Soaked the floor of that flat, the ceiling and floor of the flat below and the ceiling of the ground floor flat. The bottom flats were getting handed over in 1 weeks time!!! 🤣🤣 He should have disconnected the filling loop (water bylaw) and capped the filling loop and or had the blowoff connected 1st.
The only thing I can’t understand is if the filling loop Valve was passing, why didn't the excess water go out the blow off? Unless it’s a tun dish that couldn’t take it but it should.

 

[Agile]

This has all been very interesting to read all the opinions.

But I did expect a closing posting from Reading1986 saying if and how it has been resolved.

Although I do little work on radiator systems ( specialising in boiler repairs ), I have to say that if I was confident that I had fully drained the system and it needed further work the next day then it would be possible that I would not waste time capping off rad valves etc. or closing bleed screws on rads which were to be removed the next day.

But the ESSENTIAL work that any competent person would always do is to remove the filling loop and cap off the inlet valve. That would ensure that the system could never be pressurised without the use of tools.

As for testing systems, on a house where I was fitting a new boiler I needed to remove about 8 m of 15mm copper gas pipe. On this length there were TWO fluxed but UNSOLDERED joints that had lasted through 15 years of occasional gas leakage tests!
[automerge]1599821107[/automerge]
Reviews on some of the Find a Tradesman sites need to be taken with caution.

A lady I knew had a clutch replaced but they put a rotation locking washer in backwards and within days the car would not start when hot. ( The flywheel just turned on the shaft! )

When I looked at reviews on this "Clutch" place I saw that virtually ALL the good reviews were for very simple jobs like replacing clutch cables.

The test for any trade is if they can do the more difficult jobs as well as easy ones!

 

[Ben-gee]

I would say that it’s more important that they stick to the easy ones if that’s what they can do - nothing wrong with that.
It’s when people are out of their depth that most trouble occurs....

 

[Agile]

I would say that it’s more important that they stick to the easy ones if that’s what they can do - nothing wrong with that.
It’s when people are out of their depth that most trouble occurs..

It seems to be human nature to work up to the next level above what people can do competently!

 

[spanner]

Hello

I thought I'd post a post.

I am currently under going a full re dec of the whole house, new flooring, skirting, architrave window boards and nice new rads.

Plumber came to fit the new rads, drained down the system. To begin the work the next day.

I had a call from the kitchen floor tilers to say there was a leak coming into the lounge ceiling / window reveal. Ruined the reveal. Needs plastering or maybe replacing

I called the plumber and he came back round to check straight away. I wasn't in at time and made my way back home straight away. Water had come in from the above bedrooms and into the lounge reveal. I got home and checked the living room out. And around the whole house. Checked everywhere. Plumber had left by the time I got there.

The next day the kitchen tilers rang again to say there is water coming coming through the kitchen ceiling ( alot of it) all over the kitchen floor. Wrecked the new kitchen plinths. Potentially the kitchen floor grout. All the other rooms have had ply laid down ready for amitco flooring. The ply had had a fair amount of water over it. Ensuite flooded. Landing carpet completely soaked around the rad area. So I've had to open an insurance claim.

The plumber is saying that both valves. The heating filling loop were letting water by. So even thou he had drained the system it was letting water by and filling the system up.

Question should he have discovered that the "valves" for the heating filling loop were at "fault" when draining the system. Or is this completely avoidable.

Now left with a huge amount of unnecessary damage. Plumber is demanding a days wage when was only there from 9 to 2pm. He's replaced the 2 valves on the filling loop as he said they were at fault. Also bearing in mind I had a rad capped off month before and some work a month before that. So the system has been drained down twice fully successfully without any issues...oh this was done by a different plumber. Who I would normally use. But was unfortunately to busy with his schedule to fit me on for this rad work.

So has the plumber been incompetent and not checking the system correctly and making sure it's draining down correctly, also should he have had detected these issues when draining down the system, therefore avoiding all of these issues I now have / or should he have detected the issues on his second visit when I called to say i had a leak in the lounge from the rad pipes above.


Should I pay or not...would really like some advice. Never had this much damage done or any after a trades man has been in.

The fault at the filling loop? If the systems drained the loop should be disconnected. Although its not the point for draining but with system previously up and running should have been completely removed. The filling loop is a temporary measure to assist only when refilling or topping up the primary system.

 

[Gary80gas]

Once you break into a sealed pipe you become responsible for what comes out. Always cap off pipes/valves.