Plumbing, in your own house.

[GreenArmy]

Why is it the worst problems you get when plumbing is in your own house?
18 years as a plumber and i cant for the life of me work out why the new Grohe concealed cistern (on frame) with the new Utopia Quantum Square wall hung pan along with a brand new soil pipe wont flush the waste away. The pan fills with water as if i had a blocked drain (only for a few seconds before it drains away). Ive altered the angle of the outlet, had the pan off and on in the last two days more times than i can remember. There is absolutely no reason this should be happening apart from a design fault on the pan or outlet of concealed cistern............Arghhhhhh.
Anyone know of a design fault on Utopia wc pans?
To be fair its better this has happened at home and not a job that i had priced for.

 

[Plouasne]

Why is it the worst problems you get when plumbing is in your own house?
18 years as a plumber and i cant for the life of me work out why the new Grohe concealed cistern (on frame) with the new Utopia Quantum Square wall hung pan along with a brand new soil pipe wont flush the waste away. The pan fills with water as if i had a blocked drain (only for a few seconds before it drains away). Ive altered the angle of the outlet, had the pan off and on in the last two days more times than i can remember. There is absolutely no reason this should be happening apart from a design fault on the pan or outlet of concealed cistern............Arghhhhhh.
Anyone know of a design fault on Utopia wc pans?
To be fair its better this has happened at home and not a job that i had priced for.

Is the soil stack vented to the open air ??, and I mean open air not a durgo on the end of the pipe

 

[GreenArmy]

Yep, external soil pipe is vented (i have fitted and/or renewed hundreds of soil pipes). bath and basin waste also go into soil pipe and are flying away. Definitely no problem with soil pipe.
A couple of times that ive removed the pan there has been a bit of toilet roll snagged on the pan outlet.

 

[flat pack]

Put your hand down the pan

 

[Bernie2]

What sort of pan is it?

If its syphonic and not wash down it will fill up then drain away with a suck.

If you stick your hand down the pan or look at the side, a syphonic pan has two traps not one. The first one at the back fills and discharges down the drain, which sucks the content out of the second trap, which empties and is then refilled with a bit of residual water.

They do look as though they are blocked, but aren't, and some have an equalising valve in the WC syphon outlet which connects into the first trap.

If its a wash down it would seem either you are getting back pressure from the drain, which may point to a blocked vent or something is stuck inside the pan or WC bend into the stack.

 

[GreenArmy]

Normal wash down pan (not syphonic pan). Tomorrow i will borrow a normal standard pan from work and rig up to see how that flushes away.
When i say the pan fills up on flushing, it doesnt fill right up, and at the moment is getting rid of waste. I swapped the built in bent pan connector on the grohe frame for a flexie connector (i know i hate these and cant believe if ive put one in in my own house) and this does seem to have made a small difference. Just waiting to have a big dump to see if it will flush away.

 

[Phil]

Yes I was going to suggest fitting a temp pan to test, have you had your dump yet? 😱

 

[GreenArmy]

Not yet phil, but just had a big plate full of egg sarnies so wont be long.

Just had the big fella and flushed away OK, seems the last bit of bog roll does suck away. Although the pan does quarter fill before draining. Re-checked drain, dismanted and refixed entire soil pipe and ive probably got the clearest drain in the street. So i will try a bog standard pan tomorrow and then refix wall hung pan and see how it goes. All i can think now is its the design of pan.

 

[GreenArmy]

Up-date...... Well i definitely think its the pan. Just rigged up a standard twyfords pan and flushes down with no problem. Taking a closer look at the Utopia pan outlet from the back, the trap doesnt run smoothly i.e there is a void space on the upper side of trap before it rounds off for outlet, which im guessing is causing water to hit this space and then force back into pan.
Gutted i had my heart set on this pan so may have to reconsider my choice. BTW Utopia customer services were very helpful.

 

[Phil]

Strange one, what did Utopia say about it?

 

[GreenArmy]

They said they are unaware of any problems with this pan, but if im not happy to go back to the supplier and they will replace it.

 

[Kemble]

I had a similar problem... it turned out to be the first few inches of waste pipe before the elbow left... this section is so short and moveable at the socket end as you work the pan spigot into it, it's not easy to check for correct run out angle... and you'd think that it was unimportant... but with the small trickle of water you get from modern cisterns... you really need to have all waste pipes spot on... I think the waste just sits in this section otherwise...