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Poppy yes or no?

View the thread, titled "Poppy yes or no?" which is posted in UK Plumbers Forums on UK Plumbers Forums.

My great grandad was at Ypres in 1917 (Passchendaele). Shot in the chest and being stretchered away from the battlefield he was then shot through the ankle which gave him a shortened leg and a limp for life. He said being shot twice saved his life but that was about the only thing he ever told me of his time at war. He was sent home fkd but alive. One of the fortunate ones.
I remember as a boy watching him stand silently (and he did stand and me with him) with a tear running down his cheek on armistice day as he stood to attention. No doubt reminiscing of friends fallen or maimed and the waste of life.
We have no comprehension of what these guys endured. Around half a million men died in the battle of Passchendaele. Try to comprehend that number of dead for a 3 month battle. You can't!
The men who fought and died there from both sides deserve respect. They had little choice. They weren't in the main fighting for King and Country. They were there because they were conscripted.

Such was the impact on the people of Ypres, they still to this day play the last post at 8pm every night in respect of those who fought and died there.
And the free people in this country argue about the wearing of a poppy as a sign of respect.
Sometimes this land shames me in its lack of respect for anything.
 
If any of you get chance get down to the National Memorial Arboretum just outside
Lichfield Staffordshire, free of charge to get in and a very humbling and moving
expierence, below is a picture of the memorial wall in memory of all servicemen/
women who have paid the ultimate sacrafice since WW2

afm2.jpg
 
Well said Tamz!

I've studied both WW1 and WW2, seen the memorials and the rows of graves and all I can say is what a terrible waste of lives.

Whilst one side fought for freedom and the other under a dictator (similar to England/Scotland divide but we Won't go there!) none of the guys fighting really wanted to be there and I can't imagine the atrocities that they endured, witnessed and were forced to carry out to survive.

I've brought my poppy and paid my respects for those fallen.
 
My great grandad died at the Somme. He's still out there somewhere. My grandad fought in the desert with the LRDG. He never ever spoke about what happened but I remember him hating fireworks night because the cracks and bangs apparently brought back the worst of his memories. The closest he came to talking about the war was giving me a swastika he'd cut out of a Nazi flag as a keepsake. He told me he was ashamed afterwards that he'd done it.

It was years before I understood.
 
If any of you get chance get down to the National Memorial Arboretum just outside
Lichfield Staffordshire, free of charge to get in and a very humbling and moving
expierence, below is a picture of the memorial wall in memory of all servicemen/
women who have paid the ultimate sacrafice since WW2

View attachment 8743

I remember standing at the American graves in Normandy, row upon row of white crosses and a huge wall of all those missing. It was then that I learnt that all those crosses only represented 30% of the Americans that fell as all the American families were given the choice of having their beloved buried in France or flown home - 70% were flown home. Trying to imagine that many dead from one country alone and reading the grave stones in the commonwealth graveyards etc gave me some appreciation of the scale of devastation and I'm not ashamed to admit it brought a tear to my eye to imagine the horror they went through and how that is now just discarded as insignificant now. We will never know hardships like those.
 
In Flanders fields the poppies blow
Between the crosses, row on row,
That mark our place; and in the sky
The larks, still bravely singing, fly
Scarce heard amid the guns below.
We are the Dead. Short days ago
We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,
Loved and were loved, and now we lie
In Flanders fields.
Take up our quarrel with the foe:
To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.

by John McCrae May 1915
 
The men who fought and died there from both sides deserve respect. They had little choice. They weren't in the main fighting for King and Country. They were there because they were conscripted.

Consripted they were and many died at the hands of their ownside shot for being deserters....shocking! they
were all deservely given a pardon...the horrors of war

shotatdawn2.jpg

shotatdawn1.jpg
 
For The Fallen

With proud thanksgiving, a mother for her children,
England mourns for her dead across the sea.
Flesh of her flesh they were, spirit of her spirit,
Fallen in the cause of the free.

Solemn the drums thrill; Death august and royal
Sings sorrow up into immortal spheres,
There is music in the midst of desolation
And a glory that shines upon our tears.

They went with songs to the battle, they were young,
Straight of limb, true of eye, steady and aglow.
They were staunch to the end against odds uncounted;
They fell with their faces to the foe.

They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old:
Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We will remember them.

They mingle not with their laughing comrades again;
They sit no more at familiar tables of home;
They have no lot in our labour of the day-time;
They sleep beyond England's foam.

But where our desires are and our hopes profound,
Felt as a well-spring that is hidden from sight,
To the innermost heart of their own land they are known
As the stars are known to the Night;

As the stars that shall be bright when we are dust,
Moving in marches upon the heavenly plain;
As the stars that are starry in the time of our darkness,
To the end, to the end, they remain.

Laurence Binyon (1869-1943)
 
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I will be out on Sunday with a club, we have arranged a period of silence at 11am. It always annoys me when someone doesnt observe this , usually I am at work but this sunday it should be complete silence.
 
My son is hoping to get into Harrogate army college next year and this Sunday we will be marching
with his Cadet detachment, my nephew is up at Harrogate at moment, but will be joining us Sunday
 
Is this an age thing?
Comments from the young ones please. How or what do you feel regards Armistice and the poppy?
 
A poppy for me everytime

View attachment 8730

This youngman in the shorts is my grandfather just
before leaving hospital, wounded twice in action, once
at the Battle of El Alamein and then again in France
amoung the lanes of Villers Bocage. His wife, sons
and daughter never got the privilege to share the rest
of their lives with, nor did he get to see his 16
grandchildren, as he never recoverd and died of his
wounds with his wife, my nan by his side.

Now religion nor the celibration of war comes into
my reasons for wearing my poppy!

I call it PRIDE....pride to call Queensman Jackman
my "Granddad"

it is for men and women like your grandad that i do such a tiny gesture as wear a poppy, because if it wasnt for their bravery i dont know what i would be forced to wear, i appreciate that as the first and second world wars fade into history less and less people will be personally affected by the war through losing someone, BUT it is still very important that every later generation is taught what happened to ensure the pride and respect is carried on, and day in day out there are many more being killed and injured through out the world so it is important that they are remembered, simple as far as im concerned,
 
The soldier stood and faced God,
Which must always come to pass.
He hoped his shoes were shining,
Just as brightly as his brass.

'Step forward now, you soldier,
How shall I deal with you ?
Have you always turned the other cheek ?
To My Church have you been true?'


The soldier squared his shoulders and said,
'No, Lord, I guess I ain't.
Because those of us who carry guns,
Can't always be a saint.

I've had to work most Sundays,
And at times my talk was tough.
And sometimes I've been violent,
Because the world is awfully rough.

But, I never took a penny,
That wasn't mine to keep...
Though I worked a lot of overtime,
When the bills got just too steep.

And I never passed a cry for help,
Though at times I shook with fear.
And sometimes, God, forgive me,
I've wept unmanly tears.


I know I don't deserve a place,
Among the people here..
They never wanted me around,
Except to calm their fears.

If you've a place for me here, Lord,
It needn't be so grand.
I never expected or had too much,
But if you don't, I'll understand.


There was a silence all around the throne,
Where the saints had often trod.
As the soldier waited quietly,
For the judgment of his God.

'Step forward now, you soldier,
You've borne your burdens well.
Walk peacefully on Heaven's streets,
You've done your time in Hell.'

~ Author Unknown ~
 
I'm glad I posted this, it was just a passing thought but I'm pleased to read all the great comments and fitting tributes, makes me proud to be British
 
Yes it certainly is our culture and past is epic least we forget
 
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Amazes me how all those that won't display a poppy, will display a Christmas tree. A poppy is a symbol to celebrate our freedom, a tree is put up as a symbol to celebrate Christmas.

Without the sacrifices made by our armed forces against the Nazis, none of us would be celebrating anything.

You'd also think that successive UK governments might have learned a thing or too about going to war. They haven't, here we are, a tiny blot on the worlds landscape acting as the worlds police force fighting two futile wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. I'm not proud to be British because of that.

Prior to WW1, being British meant bringing tyranny to the world in pursuit of an Empire. After the Empire crumbled, nations regained their freedom from persecution under British rule. Empire building was a nasty blot in the history of the British Isles.

In WW1 and WW2, bits of boys were conscripted and forced to go to war. Generations were slaughtered, maimed or just disappeared It's their ultimate sacrifice that I'm recognising and nothing to do with "being proud to be British".
 
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Everyone's entitled to there beliefs wrong or right
But I'm British and proud to be that don't mean I have to be proud of everything in Britain as its a mess at the minute
But it's still home
 
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I wear the poppy to remember the fallen and those injured in conflicts.
My Grandmother lost four brothers in WWI which means I have no relations on my mums side, such was the scale of carnage still felt today.
It is important to reflect on the waste of young lives and to honour the dead of all sides in war.
 
Everyone's entitled to there beliefs wrong or right
But I'm British and proud to be that don't mean I have to be proud of everything in Britain as its a mess at the minute
But it's still home



I can agree with that - one of things that concerns me about poppy wearing is that it shows signs of being put on the list of the compliance mentalists that now seem to think they have a right to police the behaviour of anyone living in Britain: shouldn't smoke; shouldn't drink; should be the ideal weight, should do this, that, and the other!

Such thinking smacks of the blonde, blue eyed, caucasian, ideal type, mentality that our ancestors stood against, and paid a price for.

One of the positive effects of the war (and I believe there are very few) is that it brought people together, i.e. people stood with solidarity against a common enemy. That sense of solidarity remained in Britain for many years after WW2, and people cared about what happened to each other, e.g. whether others had a home, a job, decent health care, etc.

By the 60’s the memory of the war was fading and people enjoyed the freedom of a liberal society without thinking too much about the previous costs of such a lifestyle, perhaps drifting into complacency about such things.

In the 70’s a different kind of conflict began to grow, not on the outside of British society, but within the civil relationships of the British populace.

There was a new kind of enemy, and it was everywhere, the parody version was one of: “reds under the bed”!

Arthur, Red Robbie, these were the people that now threatened the British way of life.

Then out of the dust of this conflict arose a new champion: a modern day Boudicca who was raised in a corner-shop and carried a handbag.

The Iron Maiden was more than ready to do battle with the: ‘enemy within’. The battlefield was not on some distant shore, or beach, it was central London.

Mrs Thatcher marshalled her ‘boys in blue’ army in Parliament Square, and we saw miners, and other British workmen being charged by police on horseback wearing their new form of battle gear. We witnessed the same British workmen that had stoked the furnaces and form metal into tanks, boats and planes to defend Britain with being beaten with battens by police in riot gear.

Trade Unions were decriminalised in the UK in 1867, but the battles of the 1970/80’s saw the Unions looked upon as tantamount to criminals once again by many people in Britain.

The social cohesion that had lasted for nearly thirty years after WW2 had begun to break down – civil relationships became divided: The Tax Payer v The Unions. Blue collar v White collar. Lefties v Neo Right-wing advocates, etc.

The five pillars of the welfare state were criticised by politicians, and became regarded by more and more people in the UK as liabilities that were dragging Britain down.

The 60’s saw the growth of the commercial media in Britain, and with it came more and more American thinking, and an increasing on-the-hoof tabloid philosophy that turns every issue into a simplistic decision about: “what is good, what is bad, what is right, what is wrong”. Complex issues became simplified, large numbers of people stopped thinking too much about politics, economics, social policy, etc, whatever the Sun, The Daily Mail, or “the TV” said became accepted as: ‘what must be right’ by many people.

Apart from a few bumps and grinds, Britain generally experienced a general sense of wealth during the late 80’s. 90’s, and up until the credit crunch.

Much of the sense of prosperity was propped up by the rise in house prices and easy credit, but a lot of people felt as if they were doing OK financially, even if much of it was illusionary.

Having spent many years playing almost every group in society off against each other, politicians now tell us that we are: “all in this together”!

Apparently, Britain is now once again a united society, and it’s all down to collectively paddling around in “the brown stuff”!

The common-enemy has become “The Bankers”, who were once Mrs Thatcher’s best friends!

The problem with battling against “The Bankers” is that they have a lot of our money, so giving them a good beating is a bit like: ‘spiting the nose on your own face’!

Plus, they do tend to be faceless wonders, and we’re told that if we are too nasty to them they will: “pick up the ball and play elsewhere”.

So here we all are, stood in a rising sea of the brown stuff, and without a common enemy to do battle with.

The Olympics is over, having been milked dry by the politicians re: ‘national morale and sense of identity’. All the good memories of Jimmy Savile on Top of the Pops have been flushed down the pan, and the BBC seem to have gone mental playing ‘spot the pedo’!

I’m still not sure about wearing a poppy – should I exercise my right not to wear one, or should I wear one to show that I appreciate the right not to wear one if I was so inclined?

[FONT=&amp]One thing I do feel surer of is that if those that gave up so much for this country could see it now they would probably be somewhat downhearted at the state of it![/FONT]
 
Always buy one every year ..Mrs bought nice one from M&S broach style for £15 £5 goes to British Legion all her pals at work have been trying to get one apparently sold out I told her tell them try BL website or poppy appeal site small price to pay for the privilage we all enjoy but often take for granted regards turnpin
 
Always buy one every year ..Mrs bought nice one from M&S broach style for £15 £5 goes to British Legion all her pals at work have been trying to get one apparently sold out I told her tell them try BL website or poppy appeal site small price to pay for the privilage we all enjoy but often take for granted regards turnpin

Apparently they have been selling on ebay for well over the purchase price.
 
I recently saw in a elderly ladies hall, a framed large quality photograph of two young smiling soldiers, one standing & other seated. They had strange looking uniform & I asked her if they were American soldiers. "British - her brothers & both killed later in WW2, one in desert campaign". Then she told me her father died in the merchant navy when ship was torpedoed.
Those people deserve our thanks. Yes, as a Brit, I support the poppy!
 

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