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Powerflushing course - Fernox or Kamco, or somewhere else?
View the thread, titled "Powerflushing course - Fernox or Kamco, or somewhere else?" which is posted in Plumbing Courses on UK Plumbers Forums.
A
albatross
Fernox or Sentinel. Decent boiler manufacturers only recommend those two. Some boiler makers do flushing courses too, Worcester do. You might get more out of a boiler maker. One thing can lead to another.
I hope you get advice on which course to attend.
If you ask my opinion, Powerflushing is a SCAM. Just my view, that's all. I have been a self employed plumber for 9 years, been doing Gas work and Installations for 4 years, and I have never had the need for a Powerflushing machine. I am yet to have a newly installed boiler fail.
Do it right is my motto. It always work.
I have been tempted to go to St Albans and pay the £50 (at the time). But decided against it.
If you ask my opinion, Powerflushing is a SCAM. Just my view, that's all. I have been a self employed plumber for 9 years, been doing Gas work and Installations for 4 years, and I have never had the need for a Powerflushing machine. I am yet to have a newly installed boiler fail.
Do it right is my motto. It always work.
I have been tempted to go to St Albans and pay the £50 (at the time). But decided against it.
Did the Kamco one (Free) cos I bought one of there machines got used a few times when I lived outside London, been back in the south west now since 2003, its been used once, its on a shelf at the back of the garage. people wont pay the costs of power flushing, unless your going to do it for free every time you change a boiler don't bother, its not a requirement (Yet)
E
Ermintrude
I'm building a custom flusher at moment. 300lpm and a mag on it too.
Sorry but don't think that power-flushing is a requirement, think all it says is that system must be cleaned to meet BS don't think it states what method to use,
Attachments
E
Ermintrude
No it's based on a thread I read on power-flushing website. Said all your off the shelf stuff was pap.
It's currently a pile of fittings, a powerful pump and a mark 1 magnaclense. Need to get a 3" to 1 nylon bush
It's currently a pile of fittings, a powerful pump and a mark 1 magnaclense. Need to get a 3" to 1 nylon bush
T
tamz
Mind reader :lol:
yes and what if you can only meet the british standard by powerflushing? then its a requirement?
The standards recommends 3 different methods of cleaning . powerflush, mains pressure, and gravity/circulating pump. Which one you use depends on alot of factors but a very heavily sludged system may only really become cleaned to meet the standard by powerflushing. especially from a cost point of view.
I have a basic power flush machine which I have only used 3 times that I can remember.
Not impressed with it & not really surprised.
I have just called to remove a rad on an old heating job I thoroughly flushed out (using cleaning chemicals in system few weeks). The water was nice & clean when I let the rad run into a gulley - until the last which was pure black.
Unless I am using the wrong chemicals, then power flushing just removes the dirty water in pipes & system & leaves a lot of the sludge in bottom of rads. No magnetic filter would have made any difference as the dirt didn't move. I would have been better just to use a hose from mains or better still, - took each rad off & flushed them outside.
Not impressed with it & not really surprised.
I have just called to remove a rad on an old heating job I thoroughly flushed out (using cleaning chemicals in system few weeks). The water was nice & clean when I let the rad run into a gulley - until the last which was pure black.
Unless I am using the wrong chemicals, then power flushing just removes the dirty water in pipes & system & leaves a lot of the sludge in bottom of rads. No magnetic filter would have made any difference as the dirt didn't move. I would have been better just to use a hose from mains or better still, - took each rad off & flushed them outside.
T
tamz
BS7593 only reccommends the appropriate method. Which one you choose is up to you following manu instructions and afaik there is not a manu out there that states a powerflush MUST be carried out. They refer you to 7593 then bump you on the warranty if you get it wrong :lol:
"A choice of cleansing methodologies is available. In most cases
involving major work, e.g. commissioning of new systems or boiler
change, this will necessitate a chemical cleanse, followed by a fresh
water flush, before an inhibitor is applied. For minor work, e.g. change
of a circulator pump or individual radiators, it might be sufficient to
isolate and change the component, but always check that the inhibitor
protection meets the manufacturer’s specification when
re-commissioning"
"A choice of cleansing methodologies is available. In most cases
involving major work, e.g. commissioning of new systems or boiler
change, this will necessitate a chemical cleanse, followed by a fresh
water flush, before an inhibitor is applied. For minor work, e.g. change
of a circulator pump or individual radiators, it might be sufficient to
isolate and change the component, but always check that the inhibitor
protection meets the manufacturer’s specification when
re-commissioning"
A
albatross
I'm not the only sad git! I built my own machine. It's a beast, better than any you can buy. Auto fill, immersion, magnetic and gauze filter, reversible flow, 10m clear hoses. I used a small yellow wheelie bin with a grundfos submersible pump. I might put some pics up another day.
E
Ermintrude
Mines a blue recycling bin
😀, lets competition begin
E
Ermintrude
It's going to be like those cards u used to get with cars on with different statistics about engine and wheel size.
I'm going with reversible flow, sediment drain, clear hoses I've we have about 6 duo ga that are in back for salvage was thinking about setting one up in a crate and running it on LPG? But worried about overheating pump? What you used for auto fill? I was thinking two part with 150mm air gap, through wall and onto a hose lock quick release nipple?
I'm going with reversible flow, sediment drain, clear hoses I've we have about 6 duo ga that are in back for salvage was thinking about setting one up in a crate and running it on LPG? But worried about overheating pump? What you used for auto fill? I was thinking two part with 150mm air gap, through wall and onto a hose lock quick release nipple?
Last edited by a moderator:
ok, 1 point for Elmi
E
Ermintrude
My flush is now to be called the erminator
E
erpkid
This is making me feel inadequate. I was chuffed when I added an adapter to the drain hose to flush the pump out......
A
albatross
You have beaten me with the sediment drain, although after a job I just turn it upside down to get the dregs out before it goes in the van.
I used the grundfos unilift (same as fernox and sentinel) It can handle 50 deg C and has a overheat stat built in which has never tripped as my immersion stat is set low enough and it looses heat fast stood outside and circulating.
To fill I used a normal ball cock with copper ball mounted half way down to prevent overflow if used indoors. It is fed from a copper 15mm that rises to the top and has an elbow with hozelock fitting. I kept all connections at the top, inside so any drips fall back in and not on customers carpet.
A
albatross
Mine is called the Albaflush 1000.
Noticed when the boiler service guys came out to faults on new boilers. First thing they were doing was checking water quality. ( this was couple of years back )
Was told by them ...any dirt...and boiler warranty void. Reckons the boiler ways are so small these days any we bits will choke them.
Powerflushing sounds good idea after that 😉
Was told by them ...any dirt...and boiler warranty void. Reckons the boiler ways are so small these days any we bits will choke them.
Powerflushing sounds good idea after that 😉
E
Ermintrude
Yeh some heat team lads can check water quality by just changing gas valve! They can also tell custard some real porkers. Don't think they get training. Just learn a script some times.
I
IDCHAPPY
I
IDCHAPPY
Like an episode of scrap yard challenge in here now :lol:
L
lame plumber
A better idea is to fit boilers that dont have secondary hexes or diverter valves that clog up, you know ones with 22mm bore copper pipes running through the main hex so a bit of crud isnt an issue, they are out there 🙂 by the way WB and vaillant dont make one 🙂
E
Ermintrude
If single hex such a good idea why did 90% of manufacturers move away from them and it's only the cheap tat and a few "special" boilers that don't??
Cost and packaging issues?
E
Ermintrude
Nope because heat transfer technology moves on , thin film boiling technology, and only reason u need large waterways is if you can't clean water! I'm not sold on the intergas model. !
S
salplumb
I did the Kamco course, and found it informative, they tell you "how to" on all the different types of systems you may come across, but also how to measure the PH, level of dissolved solids etc so you can judge if a flush is required and when its clean enough, the focus is on offering the service as a way for us to make money but not as either the holy grail or that's its always required
I've read loads of opinions on this and its seems there are 2 camps those that do and those that don't, find out for yourself and pick a camp
The limiting factor will be weather a cust will pay or not that you will find out for yourself
I've read loads of opinions on this and its seems there are 2 camps those that do and those that don't, find out for yourself and pick a camp
The limiting factor will be weather a cust will pay or not that you will find out for yourself
Kamco is good ,
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