Pressure Test Q's

dontknowitall · Oct 18, 2011

I've not read the detail of this thread and I appreciate you're having difficulties with the plumbing aspect of this build.

The fittings are probably ugly because they're cheap. You gets what you pay for. I'm not trying to say the plumber has done a good or poor job and the budget he had to work with we will never know.

However, as I understand things, your contract and contact is with the NHBC and/or the seller and not the individual tradesmen who've built the house.

It's never enjoyable reading of less than satisfactory occurences (speling?) and I hope you get a quick and helpful outcome. One thing you might bear in mind is that solicitors make money by charging for time (I've learned from past experience to my cost). I think it's a red herring when they are trying to persue the individual tradesmen and not go for the jugular (ie developer), so they earn from this red herring.

fagsanbooz · Oct 18, 2011

Maitri said:
Hi so the plumber does not have to work to regulations for changing fittings to a radiator then ? This is our concern, not only do the fittings look ugly but there is absolutely no guarantee they will work. We have no certs from NHBC , NHBC have repeatedly said they don't have any, indeed we have a letter from them stating that the Warranty does not guarantee a property will meet standards!!

The certs I was referring to were the 'competence persons certs' confirming that the work was completed in compliance with building regs (Part L, Part H, Part P, etc) that a householder should receive when work has been completed.Maybe NHBC are exempt, would be interested to know if a property 'signed off' by NHBC does not require either; Notification to local building control or notification to competent persons provider?
Do you have anything to say the installation complies with various building regs?

tamz · Oct 18, 2011

There is no regulation 4 paragraph 7 in the water regs. (reg 4 stops at para 6)

With regards to accessibility, it could be argued that a wooden floor is always readily accessible, trap doors or not. It is the floor covering that makes it less desirable to access It would take less than a minute to cut a hole in it.
Nearly every house in Britain has pipes and joints under wooden floors. It is the way things are and were done. Sometimes accessing these joints is a bit of a nightmare because of the covering especially these days with hardwood and tiles and god forbid laminate.
However it is good practice - but certainly not a requirement - with plastic systems to install a manifold system with the manifold in a central accessible position and no joints from manifold to the appliance or whatever.

There is also no regulation as to the number or types of fittings an a piece of pipe other than they are of an approved standard.

If the builder used an approved plumbing contractor he would have given a certificate of compliance which basically said his work or installation complies with the water regs.
If the plumber was not an approved contractor, the water authority would have been notified of the work being carried out - they are on new build anyway - and it would have been up to them to inspect at regular intervals to see the work was complying. It very rarely happens tho and if it does they are not much interested in heating systems. Usually only the domestic supplies (hot and cold).

Maitri · Oct 18, 2011

Building Control came through NHBC and NHBC say they have no certs so nothing to say installation complies as NHBC say that the Warranty does not mean the property WILL meet Regulations! I know it's hard to believe but we have been trying to get this addressed for 9 months and simply can't believe that nobody is there to ensure ANYTHING meets Regulations or that the builder will bring a property up to standards. All the Phase 1 properties have been effected by the faulty plumbing and 2 of the Phase 1 properties are still not sold (with similar flooding due to faulty plumbing) but NHBC say it's fine for the builder to sell them with KNOWN plumbing problems! That is when they wrote and said that the Warranty does not mean the property meets Regulations.

Maitri · Oct 19, 2011

I am really confused I have looked high and low for my Water Regulations because I know when Wessex Water sent the letter to me with a copy of Regs I did find Reg 4 Para 7 . Their letter said: the pipe-work within the floor and behind bath panel would not have passed compliance of the water regulations as they would not have been accessible according to Regulation 4, paragraph 7, Requirements for Water Fittings. Ah OK Schedule 2: The Water Supply (Water Fittings) Regulations 1999

Is this the one then:
No fitting which is designed to be operated or maintained, whether manually or electronically, or which consists of a joint, shall be a concealed water fitting.

tamz · Oct 19, 2011

Maitri said:
Is this the one then:
No fitting which is designed to be operated or maintained, whether manually or electronically, or which consists of a joint, shall be a concealed water fitting.

No. That one applies to valves etc.

sheff paul · Oct 19, 2011

The pipe in question is very good if fitted correctly,used Rehau crimp fit in Australia which is similar to this and very good and desingned to be chased into walls,once tested it can carry massive pressure and never leak,but never used compression fittings on it,to get onto copper they have adapters one end crimp the other brazed,i think this has been modified for uk plumbing the inserts are either missing or the wrong size.The UK is one of the few countries with exposed pipes under baths,basins etc.Most countries have '' mini stop valves'' fitted on the walls supplying basins,toilets with flexis.I would call the rep out who supplies this pipe and get his opinion.. Most builders are a waste of space

Maitri · Oct 19, 2011

So does anyone know which part of the above Water Supply (Water Fittings) Regulations 1999 Wessex water would have been referring to when they came to my house and said the joints should be accessible? Or did they not know what they were talking about? If nobody knows where the joints are if I have a leak below floor level how will anyone be able to know where to access it without sawing up the whole floor? I am just trying to work out why the builder and his new plumber (not the one that did the original plumbing here) said that they had to re-plumb No 43 because he couldn't track a leak below floor level. Thanks

Maitri · Feb 16, 2012

The saga continues! After 9 months without hot water /heating we finally had the system flushed in December...last week lost hot water again, this is where this all began a year ago. Plumber came out last week and said that the people who had flushed the system obviously didn't flush the hot water part of the boiler only the heating part, so the hot water heat exchange was still full of black bits. Today heating /hot water went again! OK so Q. When the plumber was here today I took out a bit of the Ginde pert-al-pert pipe to show him and I put my finger inside and it came out black. This was a bit of pipe that had been attached to a radiator valve, the plumber had cut it off when he was re-fitting the pipe that was leaking. What would be the cause of the black sooty substance inside the pipe. The pipe is plastic with an aluminium core. The plumber last week and today...looking at the contents of the hot water heat exchange black dust and iron filings (last year the plumber had flushed out black gunge and metal filings) said they wouldn't expect to see that in a 10 year old system. If the system however, had not been commissioned I assume this would be normal would it? The plumber today said he thought there was some kind of problem with the pipe that was setting up a reaction...does anyone have any ideas thanks?