B
bantamgas
I'm not having a pop at you you or the site mate.......its all the fault of Carlsberg Export.
Welcome to the forum. Although you can post in any forum, the USA forum is here in case of local regs or laws
- Thread starter southcoastboile
- Start date
I'm not having a pop at you you or the site mate.......its all the fault of Carlsberg Export.
B
Billy Bob Bob
They can't just fire you without an investigation and due procedure.
The homeowner was responsible for the condition of the ladders. Granted you were careless in leaving it down but I would think it's only a minor misdemeanour.
You could speak to a solicitor - there are plenty about doing no-win-no-fees for such cases.
However if the company is on the verge of going into liquidation and in credit, there may well not be any money available if you win the case, as the secured creditors are the first in line to any remaning assets.
The homeowner was responsible for the condition of the ladders. Granted you were careless in leaving it down but I would think it's only a minor misdemeanour.
You could speak to a solicitor - there are plenty about doing no-win-no-fees for such cases.
However if the company is on the verge of going into liquidation and in credit, there may well not be any money available if you win the case, as the secured creditors are the first in line to any remaning assets.
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Withe regard to the loft ladder.
I have been told by companies I have worked for in past, this is the responsibility of the tenant and technically I should not even be putting it down/up. If the tenant gets injured pulling the ladder down that's ok. If I were to get injured pulling down the ladder it is my fault and should not be doing it in first place.
I have been told by companies I have worked for in past, this is the responsibility of the tenant and technically I should not even be putting it down/up. If the tenant gets injured pulling the ladder down that's ok. If I were to get injured pulling down the ladder it is my fault and should not be doing it in first place.
T
tamz
WHPES raised a good point here about liquidation. If it happens, no matter what the outcome of any tribunal you are on to plumbs.
Still worth chasing tho as it seems you have a valid case..
Still worth chasing tho as it seems you have a valid case..
K
kay-jay
post it if your comfortable with the idea.
you can pm me if you like, my wife has a law degree and we both used to work at c.a.b
they can't backtrack and reinstate you if you don't wish it. because they could just do things by the book this time and pick up on every tiny thing and issue warnings. its down to breach of trust which can work both ways, if they get the willies when your solicitors letter turns up and offer you the job back you are entitled to say no and pursue your claim for UD, when proven you still have the option of returning or looking for another job while still receiving full pay from them until any new employment commences. plus a pay out for the UD itself
B
Barry98
or we could have ukplumbersforum outing ? bit like the jollie boys in OFAH , ive suggested this a few times now only a matter of time before someone accepts 🙂
M
ManchesterGas
I know that you have a good case by the sounds of it but just be carefull, you could win and then they wind the company up and you still wont get a penny. May be worth a friendly chat with the directors.
this place are looking for someone in Bournemouth
GAS SERVICE ENGINEER REQUIRED in Bournemouth | Building Services & Maintenance Jobs | Gumtree.com
GAS SERVICE ENGINEER REQUIRED in Bournemouth | Building Services & Maintenance Jobs | Gumtree.com
Do you have legal cover on your household insurance? If so, give them a call if they think you've a case(sounds like you have) then they'll appoint solicitors for you or pay reasonable cost toward one of your choosing. Once your old firm get a whif of the fact you're not going to take it lying down and you're not shelling out your own money I'd expect them to (at some point with the guidance of their solicitors) offer you a settlement.
This will be tax free.
You find another decent firm and move on. They realize that just because they are up the tree doesn't mean they can wee on the little people who get them there.
Good luck!
This will be tax free.
You find another decent firm and move on. They realize that just because they are up the tree doesn't mean they can wee on the little people who get them there.
Good luck!
Do you have a copy of the company disciplinary procedure? you are entitled to have one. If they did not follow it to the letter and it does not comply to uk law then its unfair dismissal, they should also have a complaints/grevience proceedure you can use to appeal?
Every direct employee is entitled to a contract of employement and on requesting a copy they should supply you one. The contract should state dates, wages, hours, etc.... as standard.
Im guessing that if you were to take it further you will have some success, depends on if its worth it. If you are a member of a union then they will help you out.
Every direct employee is entitled to a contract of employement and on requesting a copy they should supply you one. The contract should state dates, wages, hours, etc.... as standard.
Im guessing that if you were to take it further you will have some success, depends on if its worth it. If you are a member of a union then they will help you out.
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Thanks again everyone, loads of helpfull posts there, I have applied to the job offer on gumtree, thanks BLOD.
Ok well this is the letter I have replied with..............
I am writing to you regarding my recent dismissal.
I wish to appeal agianst the dismissal, based on the grounds that you have not followed the correct disciplinary procedure. I also believe that I have been unfairly dismissed.
I have not had a written, or verbal warning, nor was I given any documentation to support this.
When raising this issue with you I was told "I don't have to give you a written warning or a verbal warning as I am sacking you on the spot, due to gross misconduct".
The reasons you have given me verbaly from a list you had written up were as follows:
You stated that I had left a loft ladder down in a job I attended and the woman
(who lives a short distance from yourself and who is a friend of yours) then phoned up to say she had lifted her child over the stairgate and left him on the stairs, while she dealt with her other child who was crying. While she was attending to the crying child the 2 year old child apparently had climbed up the ladder and into the loft and she found him crawling around in there. Also, she had apparently hurt her finger when putting the loft ladder back up. You then said she had been "bending your ear" about what happened and subsequently you had to fit her a new boiler for free.
I appreciate I should not have left the ladder down. It was a genuine mistake, for which I have apologised.
However, I find it extremely hard to believe that a two year old had climbed up a ladder and in to a trap hatch that even I found difficult to get into. This also raises the question as to how to the child managed to do this unsupervised.
As for the lady cutting her finger, it is the customers responsibility to make sure her property is in good order and could be construed as her putting me in danger.
I also recieved a letter regarding this issue and was told that it was not a diciplinary letter.
The second reason you gave me, was that I didn't attend a callout.
I had a telephone call from a Nursing Home saying one of their commercial boilers had stopped working and they had no heating.
I explained to the customer that I was sorry but I would be unable to attend as I am not qualified to work on commercial boilers and I am only qualified to work on domestic boilers.
You then pulled me into the meeting room for a chat the next day and told me I must attend all callouts regardless of the situation. When I challenged this decision you told me to just attend anyway for the sole purpose of showing face. I agreed that I would then attend all callouts but may not be able to carry out the work.
Another reason you gave me for my dismissal, was that I attended a job to a service and didn't tell the office that there was a leak on the radiator tail.
I went to service a boiler and while checking all the radiators were working I found a leak on a tail to a radiator behind a cabinet. I telephoned the office and said I would be able to fix it but would need three hours and could you cancel some of my jobs as it was urgent. I was told that the jobs could not be cancelled and I would have to leave it.
I advised the customer it would be best to drain the system as it was a bad leak but the customer was an elderly person who needed heating and did not want this to happen. I then telephoned the office and said it was urgent as it was leaking and he will not let me drain the system. I asked if it could be booked in for me the following day to which I was told, "yes you can go in between jobs to do it". I asked what jobs I had on the next day and was given a list of jobs that would be difficult to complete within the working day as it was, let alone with this three hour job on top. I said "something needs to be done about it and I willl not have time. We need to get a sub contractor to do it if I can't, as it's urgent".
I was told to leave the job and the office would discuss it with the customer's Insurance company. I fail to see how I could have handeled the situation any better than I did.
The next reason you gave me for my dismissal, was that I had gone to a callout and left the mains isolated and 2 hot draw offs as there was a leak.
I cleared this with the customer and they said it was fine to leave it off untill our return visit. I instructed the Office the next day that we would need to go back and finish the job and that I had stopped a major leak in the meantime.
You then gave me another reason, which meant we had to do a recall on a job in Swanage. You stated that I had apparently turned a boiler off, as it was dangerous, when it was in fact safe.
I was called to a job where the boiler was going to lockout on fault code F1, which means there is a fault with the gas pressure or water pressure. The water pressure was correct, so I checked the gas pressure. The pressure coming into the property was fine but the pressure to the boiler was not. I concluded this was why it was going to lockout and making loud noises on full rate. I concluded the installation was unsafe and isolated it. You apparently got called back and it was found to be ok. I did not come to the same conclusion. It is possible that when testing, I had not screwed out the test nipple far enough, therefore getting a false reading but it made sense that the pipework was undersized due to the symptons the boiler was experiencing.
If I was wrong, it was a genuine mistake and I would rather be safe than sorry. I wasn't given the opportunity to attend the recall, so therefore, I don't know either way.
The final reason you gave me, was that I fitted a boiler and you had to go back that night to have a look and that I had left the gas off.
The reason I had left the gas off, was that I found a gas escape on the existing pipework, so found the installation to be unsafe. I issued a Warning Notice and left the gas turned off. You then went back and turned installation back on.
I questioned you on this, as you had brought it up as a reason to dismiss me. You said it was fine and that you had checked it. I believe this is not true.
To conclude this letter, I have given reasons as to why and how these situations have come about and feel I have worked to the best of my ability while working for PBS. I have been there for eight years under four different bosses and have never had a problem.
I understand the Company is suffering financially and feel I am being pushed out to avoid paying redundancys. I understand that other Engineers have also recently had warnings and have never received them before.
These were the only items mentioned at the meeting with Bernie also present. I was told that Mike would like to see me the day before I saw him and when I phoned Mike and asked what it was about, he declined to comment. I went in at my usual time and was sacked straight away.
I look forward to your reply regarding this matter.
Yours sincerely
Ok well this is the letter I have replied with..............
I am writing to you regarding my recent dismissal.
I wish to appeal agianst the dismissal, based on the grounds that you have not followed the correct disciplinary procedure. I also believe that I have been unfairly dismissed.
I have not had a written, or verbal warning, nor was I given any documentation to support this.
When raising this issue with you I was told "I don't have to give you a written warning or a verbal warning as I am sacking you on the spot, due to gross misconduct".
The reasons you have given me verbaly from a list you had written up were as follows:
You stated that I had left a loft ladder down in a job I attended and the woman
(who lives a short distance from yourself and who is a friend of yours) then phoned up to say she had lifted her child over the stairgate and left him on the stairs, while she dealt with her other child who was crying. While she was attending to the crying child the 2 year old child apparently had climbed up the ladder and into the loft and she found him crawling around in there. Also, she had apparently hurt her finger when putting the loft ladder back up. You then said she had been "bending your ear" about what happened and subsequently you had to fit her a new boiler for free.
I appreciate I should not have left the ladder down. It was a genuine mistake, for which I have apologised.
However, I find it extremely hard to believe that a two year old had climbed up a ladder and in to a trap hatch that even I found difficult to get into. This also raises the question as to how to the child managed to do this unsupervised.
As for the lady cutting her finger, it is the customers responsibility to make sure her property is in good order and could be construed as her putting me in danger.
I also recieved a letter regarding this issue and was told that it was not a diciplinary letter.
The second reason you gave me, was that I didn't attend a callout.
I had a telephone call from a Nursing Home saying one of their commercial boilers had stopped working and they had no heating.
I explained to the customer that I was sorry but I would be unable to attend as I am not qualified to work on commercial boilers and I am only qualified to work on domestic boilers.
You then pulled me into the meeting room for a chat the next day and told me I must attend all callouts regardless of the situation. When I challenged this decision you told me to just attend anyway for the sole purpose of showing face. I agreed that I would then attend all callouts but may not be able to carry out the work.
Another reason you gave me for my dismissal, was that I attended a job to a service and didn't tell the office that there was a leak on the radiator tail.
I went to service a boiler and while checking all the radiators were working I found a leak on a tail to a radiator behind a cabinet. I telephoned the office and said I would be able to fix it but would need three hours and could you cancel some of my jobs as it was urgent. I was told that the jobs could not be cancelled and I would have to leave it.
I advised the customer it would be best to drain the system as it was a bad leak but the customer was an elderly person who needed heating and did not want this to happen. I then telephoned the office and said it was urgent as it was leaking and he will not let me drain the system. I asked if it could be booked in for me the following day to which I was told, "yes you can go in between jobs to do it". I asked what jobs I had on the next day and was given a list of jobs that would be difficult to complete within the working day as it was, let alone with this three hour job on top. I said "something needs to be done about it and I willl not have time. We need to get a sub contractor to do it if I can't, as it's urgent".
I was told to leave the job and the office would discuss it with the customer's Insurance company. I fail to see how I could have handeled the situation any better than I did.
The next reason you gave me for my dismissal, was that I had gone to a callout and left the mains isolated and 2 hot draw offs as there was a leak.
I cleared this with the customer and they said it was fine to leave it off untill our return visit. I instructed the Office the next day that we would need to go back and finish the job and that I had stopped a major leak in the meantime.
You then gave me another reason, which meant we had to do a recall on a job in Swanage. You stated that I had apparently turned a boiler off, as it was dangerous, when it was in fact safe.
I was called to a job where the boiler was going to lockout on fault code F1, which means there is a fault with the gas pressure or water pressure. The water pressure was correct, so I checked the gas pressure. The pressure coming into the property was fine but the pressure to the boiler was not. I concluded this was why it was going to lockout and making loud noises on full rate. I concluded the installation was unsafe and isolated it. You apparently got called back and it was found to be ok. I did not come to the same conclusion. It is possible that when testing, I had not screwed out the test nipple far enough, therefore getting a false reading but it made sense that the pipework was undersized due to the symptons the boiler was experiencing.
If I was wrong, it was a genuine mistake and I would rather be safe than sorry. I wasn't given the opportunity to attend the recall, so therefore, I don't know either way.
The final reason you gave me, was that I fitted a boiler and you had to go back that night to have a look and that I had left the gas off.
The reason I had left the gas off, was that I found a gas escape on the existing pipework, so found the installation to be unsafe. I issued a Warning Notice and left the gas turned off. You then went back and turned installation back on.
I questioned you on this, as you had brought it up as a reason to dismiss me. You said it was fine and that you had checked it. I believe this is not true.
To conclude this letter, I have given reasons as to why and how these situations have come about and feel I have worked to the best of my ability while working for PBS. I have been there for eight years under four different bosses and have never had a problem.
I understand the Company is suffering financially and feel I am being pushed out to avoid paying redundancys. I understand that other Engineers have also recently had warnings and have never received them before.
These were the only items mentioned at the meeting with Bernie also present. I was told that Mike would like to see me the day before I saw him and when I phoned Mike and asked what it was about, he declined to comment. I went in at my usual time and was sacked straight away.
I look forward to your reply regarding this matter.
Yours sincerely
Above is the letter, only problem is I have 5 days to hand this to them, they are not obligated to send me the reasons they sacked me through the post in a certian time limit, so I can hand this in to them, they can read it and make up new reasons as its only verbal, I had no whitnesses. Thats my worry anyway.
I used to be a shop steward for many years mate and after reading all the replies and your letter, my input would be wasted because others have already given you great advice. I believe as a company they should be more worried than you are at the moment, it's a terrible feeling being sacked, I've seen a few lads sacked some for nothing, but because the company followed procedure they got away with it.
I did a course once with a guy called Dennis Smith of The Industrial Society, he was a former Ford Halewood works convenor who sat on many industrial tribunals and his advice was always 1.procedure 2.Procedure 3.Procedure. If they have one and don't stick to it, like others have said they will lose anyway. Best of luck finding work !!
I did a course once with a guy called Dennis Smith of The Industrial Society, he was a former Ford Halewood works convenor who sat on many industrial tribunals and his advice was always 1.procedure 2.Procedure 3.Procedure. If they have one and don't stick to it, like others have said they will lose anyway. Best of luck finding work !!
K
kay-jay
Don't send that letter. The content above is for discussion with your solicitor. Or most c.a.b have a tribunal rep. To employer simply inform them that you are pursuing a legal claim for unfair dismissal. Due to them not following legal procedures. Do not show them your hand!
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Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk
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Yes, if you are serious about pursuing the case, discuss with a solicitor before sending anything out.
If you decide its not worth the effort then its up to you.
From the sounds of it (gut feeling not any professional opinion), you maybe are better off out of those circumstances and they might actually have done you a favour.
If you decide its not worth the effort then its up to you.
From the sounds of it (gut feeling not any professional opinion), you maybe are better off out of those circumstances and they might actually have done you a favour.
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G
Guest123
Sorry to hear this about you.
Gather as much evidence as you can supporting your actions in the complaints he's made against you and if possible get a few witnesses that will back you up and take him and the company to a tribunal for either unfair or constructive dismissal. Go see a lawyer about this as soon as possible, the first meeting is free.
Gather as much evidence as you can supporting your actions in the complaints he's made against you and if possible get a few witnesses that will back you up and take him and the company to a tribunal for either unfair or constructive dismissal. Go see a lawyer about this as soon as possible, the first meeting is free.
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