self tappers on flue ??

[royston]

Would you guys put self tappers into flue joints even if following manufactures instructions on flue assembly it didnt ask for any ?

 

[Blackcatgas]

No I wouldnt, Id just make sure that it was clipped really well.

 

[villa_tom]

I would not if the MI's did not ask for it. Like BCG says just clip really well. I suppose you could if you wanted to but if it passes all tests and FGA then just clipping as per MI's will suffice IMHO

 

[EPH]

Depends how rigid it was after clipping, some manufacturers aren't that great. So I might do.

 

[SafeGasInstall]

i fit wb ,they give you 1 only .but i always put 2 just for me ! when i do vailant I put as like min the 4 the come with ! never fitted other boilers that I only push fit

 

[diamondgas]

Went to a baxi condensing sys boiler fitted in loft space of an office. Complains of no heating and loud banging in loft. Flue was around 5m, well clipped yet had separated half way along. Found the electrode had buckled giving explosive ignition. I can only assume the flue had blown apart? I self tapped every joint! Maybe a one off but I doubt it! Well worth being mindful of this possibility next time you've got a long flue run! IMO

 

[SafeGasInstall]

Had similar one main did not want to work. Air switch was past way .So got new one put it on fired up no problem ! Put the case back on flame goes out .....left case on took flue out boiler fires no probs. Boiler had lime 7m horizontal + 2m vertical ! Manufacture were saying max 5m total ! Checked the flue ..... Omg Was not fully accessible +visual flue was damage all the way round no tapers ! So I said to customer ceiling must be cut to change flue .He did not want to know so I took fuse out , disconect ignition and put back together ! Gave him warning notes +sticker +photo ! They refused to disconnect so I left.

 

[gaspastemania]

From what i gather unscrewed flue joints on verticle flue is an AR wether bracketed or not , also bracket on the point if flue has change of direction if not also an AR .

 

[Davinder]

Would you guys put self tappers into flue joints even if following manufactures instructions on flue assembly it didnt ask for any ?

From what i gather unscrewed flue joints on verticle flue is an AR wether bracketed or not , also bracket on the point if flue has change of direction if not also an AR .

Wouldn't the MI's take precedent here?

@Gaspastemania:- do you mind telling me here you got that from?

 

[Blackcatgas]

From what i gather unscrewed flue joints on verticle flue is an AR wether bracketed or not , also bracket on the point if flue has change of direction if not also an AR .

Thats a new one on me? not saying your wrong.

 

[diamondgas]

From what i gather unscrewed flue joints on vertical flue is an AR whether bracketed or not , also bracket on the point if flue has change of direction if not also an AR .

Gaspastemania ... 😀 The likelihood of a flue coming apart will be most likely with horizontal flueing rather than vertical. Gravity helps keep the flue sections together vertically. You maybe have something mixed up here IMO.... As for screwing together you'd have to 1st adhere to the mi's yeh? However additional security for your own personal needs is not against the rules as long as you are not impinging on the flue's ability to do it's job.....😀

 

[gaspastemania]

I do contract work for one of the main gas contractors had a technical bulletin meeting within the company and council gas inspectors ( various councils ) and screwed flue joints is now an AR according to gsr reg update.Also along with change of direction on flue at point of change now needs a bracket .
As for the gravity yes your correct but also thermal expansion within flue can casuse last joint to slip if not fixed,supported.

 

[diamondgas]

Gaspastemania ... I'd question your messenger! When the powers that be decided ventilation less than 90% was AR and flues in voids without inspection was AR they give us a great deal of lead in time to correct 1yr at least and buletins B4 warning of the changes. I'll have to check the current GS buletins but what you're saying opens a huge can of worms IMO

 

[gaspastemania]

We are going round sorting any flues in voids now , unscrewed joints , bracket issues galore,know loads of engineers who have been riddored for installing them incorrect . It has oipened up can of worms as well like you say , its a bonus of working for large gas contractors that you get to know about some new legislation because i would never read them in the gas safe comic

 

[diamondgas]

We are going round sorting any flues in voids now , unscrewed joints , bracket issues galore,know loads of engineers who have been riddored for installing them incorrect . It has oipened up can of worms as well like you say , its a bonus of working for large gas contractors that you get to know about some new legislation because i would never read them in the gas safe comic

Just re-sat my ACS in Feb ... no mention of HAVING to screw flues ... Just checked latest buletins and GS website back to Dec2010 ... Nothing!

Please back up your info with industry standards gaspastemania as I am doubtful of what you're saying ... No offence, I worked for a large national company for many many years. This could be one of there requirements and not an industry standard requirement!

 

[gaspastemania]

You would have to contact the relevant HA's i work for possibly there requirement , like i said we were told if you dont screw flue joints its an AR . several riddors regarding verticle flues have been issued regarding verticle flue's on the contracts i am on . Upto you if you dont screw them but for 10 mins worth of work i will hgappily screw away 🙂 for someones safety .

 

[mfgs]

First I have heard of that, maybe just an internal company policy?

 

[diamondgas]

Upto you if you dont screw them but for 10 mins worth of work i will hgappily screw away 🙂 for someones safety .

I'd happily screw away till my john thomas is red raw mate ... And I'd agree that it's better to be safe than sorry.... Company policy does not make something At Risk OR RIDDOR reportable however... Sounds like your company is going over board and wasting HSE's time!! IMO. There are very few things RIDDOR reportable, BTW!

 

[gaspastemania]

At risk is a gas grey area IMO an unscrewed flue joint could be easily classed as at risk if someones bashing the crimbo decorations against it , have come across it on numourous occasionas where the flue has come apart due to a screw missing . It maybe HA's policy now not a gs but like i alwaays get told by inspectors CYA and at risk if you think it is .As far as i'm concerend safety first in this game .

 

[diamondgas]

Totally agree regards safety gaspastemania. Maybe the mi's of the boilers you're talking about requested screwing and the installers hadn't on initial instillation? Now the backside is being covered!!! lol

Not all manufacturers state that their flues MUST be self tapped however so a cart blanche ALL MUST or they're AR has little credibility and when not backed up with legislative paperwork, GS Bulletins etc. reduces the statements credibility even further.... I now rest at ease knowing that what you said is not true, all flue's do not need to be screwed together or else they're At Risk!! (until proven otherwise) I hope you too can accept that there isn't any legislative ruling to all gas safe personal that they MUST AR all room sealed appliance flues and extensions that are not screwed together, my friend!

Not a slant at you gaspastemania ... but in a credible forum on gas safe issues I think we need to be pretty accurate in our postings I'd hope you'd agree 😀

 

[gaspastemania]

I totally agree with what your saying but if the client insists on screwing and state itrs an at risk if not whom am i to argue , thats why we have these tech talks /updates.
As far as i am aware of baxi's dont state to screw flue joints, but if you do s ervice on tennent property and visual flue in loft and not noted no screwed flues an d two months later big ted wallops flue getting suitcase out of loft for holiday then i would say you have not covered your butt . Mark it at an at risk scenario then at least you have stated a concern on cp12. The manufacturer isnt going to come to court if something goes major pear shaped , MI's are your installation guidelines to be followed as minimum .Come across to many flues hanging in pieces in lofts just to not note an AR. So more than happy to go with my employers on this basis.

 

[diamondgas]

Gotta keep ya employers happy foremost mate!

However ........... No more need to go further as I think we'd agree that , although not as yet a legal requirement, good practise would be to secure room sealed appliance flues and extensions together to prevent the possibility of separation!

maybe we should put it forward to the powers that be to take note of our finding eh?

 

[AWheating]

for something that takes 2 mins and cost about 2pence i cant see why you would not do it. I have seen a few flues come apart, granted it was mainly down to lack of clipping but for peace of mind i allways add extra screws.

 

[Blackcatgas]

I just dont like the idea of putting a screw through a flue if the MI dont ask for it, even though I cant see it doing any harm or afecting anything (unless you screw through the inner flue by using too longer screw:sad3🙂.

 

[gaspastemania]

I just dont like the idea of putting a screw through a flue if the MI dont ask for it, even though I cant see it doing any harm or afecting anything (unless you screw through the inner flue by using too longer screw:sad3🙂.

3 inch tens will do the job :81: