Signing work off

[Koogatubac]

My sisters husband does work on the side, and has been a gas engineer for over 13yrs however he doesnt have his own gas.

Hes asked me if i can sign his work off (filling in benchmark under my business, commissioning etc)
I thought yea i could do this, aslong as its up to scratch and i do all the tests i know

Is this ok to do?
Basically having someone to do the installation and all im doing is signing the job off?

 

[villa_tom]

No it's naughty. Very naughty. Why should I pay my gas safe subs, public liability, van insurance, materials etc and someone else pay sod all and do their own work. Also we all get undercut by people doing this. Brother in law or not, it shouldn't be done.

 

[REDSAW]

put him on your registration for £60

 

[mountainman]

If he is doing the work without being registered then he is doing it illegally. And if you are prepared to just sign his work off doesn't that leave you open to having your own collar felt.

 

[wards]

No it's naughty. Very naughty. Why should I pay my gas safe subs, public liability, van insurance, materials etc and someone else pay sod all and do their own work. Also we all get undercut by people doing this. Brother in law or not, it shouldn't be done.

agree 100% its the back hand brigade that gives us a bad reputation and work for beer money,they do not have to fork out every year to be registered nor do they have to use their own stock/supplies as it is normally acquired from their place of work,too much of this happening IMO.rant over.

 

[dave1]

agree 100% its the back hand brigade that gives us a bad reputation and work for beer money,they do not have to fork out every year to be registered nor do they have to use their own stock/supplies as it is normally acquired from their place of work,too much of this happening IMO.rant over.

You'll never be able to stop it though, and surely this has been happening for donkeys years??
I'm not saying its right or ok just impossible to stop.

 

[chris watkins]

You'll never be able to stop it though, and surely this has been happening for donkeys years??
I'm not saying its right or ok just impossible to stop.

Dave1 does it mean we should stop fighting it ? just throw up our hands & say o'well there is nothing we can do ? This is my (& most others here) living at stake & I am sorry but I have no qualms in shopping people who are threatening to take it way.

 

[mfgs]

Last two boiler swaps I have quoted for the job has been done by someone doing a bit of cash work on the side and as a result of being able to steal bits from work they are doing it for what it would cost me just for the materials for the job. Either that or the customer is telling a lie about the price.

 

[wards]

Last two boiler swaps I have quoted for the job has been done by someone doing a bit of cash work on the side and as a result of being able to steal bits from work they are doing it for what it would cost me just for the materials for the job. Either that or the customer is telling a lie about the price.

same her mfgs,quoted for a straight swop and someone else quoted £800 supply and fit?however due to the fact that i mentioned termination issues and condensate run and the other so called engineer said dont worry about it,i did get the job.

 

[dave1]

Chris I'm not saying you or anyone else to stop fighting it, just merely pointing out that I can't see a way of ever stopping it. As the mp said "it's morally incorrect" but your relying on tradesmen to make the honest and correct decisions to not steal materials from there employers and go out and fit a boiler for a packet of peanuts and a pint.
Like you've pointed out here and ive pointed out in previous posts before it takes away the living from the likes of yourself who are self employed and trying to get work in.

 

[chris watkins]

Dave I know & do appreciated what you say, from my point of view it's hard when you keep seeing posts which sound negative & can give the impression to those in & outside the industry that "o'well its always gone on" & "it doesn't really matter" when it bl**dy well does & should be fault at every opportunity!!!

 

[Koogatubac]

Fully respect all the views and this has touched a sore point for people. In regards to how many plumbers are about, i keep ALL my work on WORD OF MOUTH, only advertising i do is flyers for LPG Sites, my vans signwritten. Thats all. So since theres so many plumbers around doing side work. Im getting business by signing off work that provides me with food on the table and making a living. Of course im getting paid because i declare EVERYTHING, ive been in merchants and nearly 9/10 every self employed plumber isnt declaring every job. However i like to do jobs by the book, no short cuts especially when its my name on the paperwork!

I dont see the problem as long as ive checked the jobs out with a fine toothcomb to make sure everythings up to scratch!

If it isnt, i get him to put stuff right, no back chat just do it. I get my money and i also get loyalty points off the manufacturers for promoting that make of boiler

My town has close to 30 sole traders and 4 companies....you can appriciate its hard to make a living when ive spend so much time and money in doing it the right way

 

[villa_tom]

Fully respect all the views and this has touched a sore point for people. In regards to how many plumbers are about, i keep ALL my work on WORD OF MOUTH, only advertising i do is flyers for LPG Sites, my vans signwritten. Thats all. So since theres so many plumbers around doing side work. Im getting business by signing off work that provides me with food on the table and making a living. Of course im getting paid because i declare EVERYTHING, ive been in merchants and nearly 9/10 every self employed plumber isnt declaring every job. However i like to do jobs by the book, no short cuts especially when its my name on the paperwork!

I dont see the problem as long as ive checked the jobs out with a fine toothcomb to make sure everythings up to scratch!

If it isnt, i get him to put stuff right, no back chat just do it. I get my money and i also get loyalty points off the manufacturers for promoting that make of boiler

My town has close to 30 sole traders and 4 companies....you can appriciate its hard to make a living when ive spend so much time and money in doing it the right way

I appreciate it's hard to make a living. But surely it's being made harder by people doing what your brother in law is doing. Say if he hadn't done the job, then you could have done it, earnt some real coin and everyone is happy.
What you have to remember is people who are doing this 'side jobs' is that they are already taking home between 25k and 35k for example, then doing more cash work on the side. An his cash work shoud be your work, helping you earn your living. I personally wouldn't do it mate, your leaving yourself wide open, what if the boiler breaks down and he manufacturer won't repair it due to an installation fault. Who's liable then? You? Because you have signed it off, legally stating that you installed it, or your brother in law? Rightfully it should be your brother in law, but you've signed the paperwork saying YOU DID IT!
Personally I'd run a mile, to much aggro, plus the fact it's illegal. Should the brown stuff hit the fan surely you stand to lose everything, all for the sake of about fifty quid.
id rather stick a tenner in a fruity in the pub and take my chances making money that way, plus I can sleep sound at night knowing all stuff signed off by me was done by me.

 

[hydrotherm]

I think Gas Safe will take a dim view of this and I hope they do. Think long and hard before you continue doing this, not only for all the reasons others have said but for your own sake. Your brother in law is earning the money and for a drink you are taking liability.

 

[Koogatubac]

Hmm...from all these points think it WILL be best to stop doing this...thanks guys, sure im not the only one with this issue, bet alot others are doing this!

 

[hydrotherm]

I do not personally know of any other Gas Safe engineers who are doing this, but I am sure there are plenty. All you are doing is encouraging illegal work and losing jobs. If everyone said no then the customer would be forced to find a legal engineer.

 

[Millsy 82]

When I worked for myself the price I used to charge to sign off somebody else's work was £2K funnily enough not 1 person took me up on it.

What would happen if there was a problem 6 months down the line which killed someone it would not be the plumber facing prosecution as it would be your name on the benchmark and you that would have registered it.

Not worth the hassle if you ask me.

 

[Koogatubac]

Thats why do you do your checks...

Think you guys just are thinking im sitting on the couch just signing anything...

Its EXACTLY how you would commission it being your install

I agree with what others are saying about that but anything coming back, it would be down to the competant person

 

[JAP&H]

I don't commission or sign off on others work.

I have offered to re-assure the customer who contacts me asking if I would commission a boiler that their builders put in by selling them a home owners gas safety check and certificate.

I will explain why a GSR engineer should have installed their new and possibly expensive appliance in the first place (regulations, warranty, registration, possible come back when selling property in future etc).

I would then request the details of the bloke who actually nailed the boiler to the wall and piped it up so that I can report illegal gas work.

Havent had any takers yet.

 

[AWheating]

its a big no...no from a gas safe standpoint. You also leave yourself open to the hmrc checking your registerd installs against your accounts. If you remember from last year they have access to all gas safe information.

 

[Koogatubac]

Ok

Agreed not worth it, if he wants stuff signed off then will have to find another mug or get his own gas, taxes etc

All important views guys. Can close this post now

 

[julesverne]

My town has close to 30 sole traders and 4 companies....you can appriciate its hard to make a living when ive spend so much time and money in doing it the right way

try multiplying that by 10 and you'll get close to the amount doing plumbing and gas in bradford wish i only 30 sole traders and 4 companies to compete with and that dont include the cowboys. also isnt it an offence to sign off other people's work, been asked loads of times to do it but pride will not let me do it even when times are hard, Although when you have to put food on the table it's catch 22

 

[buckley plumb]

My sisters husband does work on the side, and has been a gas engineer for over 13yrs however he doesnt have his own gas.

Hes asked me if i can sign his work off (filling in benchmark under my business, commissioning etc)
I thought yea i could do this, aslong as its up to scratch and i do all the tests i know

Is this ok to do?
Basically having someone to do the installation and all im doing is signing the job off?

not worth doing mate - by signing off someone elses work you are taking full responsability for it and can you 100% say you can visualy inspect all the pipework. also on another note if you sign it off and register it the tax man will wonder why you only charged a small amount for fitting a new heating system and will want to investigate.

ant

 

[GasmanxxxR1]

Is it illegal for someone who is ACS qualified but not GSR registered (because its through their company) to fir a boiler and have their sole trader mate sign it off on their GSR ticket.

Im thinking its not.

Not everyone one isnt GSR is a complete doughnut. I signed off my uncles boiler that he fitted in his own house. He has a phd in mechanical engineering, works for shell and is a chartered engineer. Are you telling me he cant read MIs and fit a boiler in accordance with MIs. If i go and inspect his workmanship, the flue, the gas work, everything and find it satisfactory wheres the harm in me signing it off

I await my ear-bashing, fire away🙂

 

[tamz]

also isnt it an offence to sign off other people's work

No it is not although it is frowned upon and the powers that be would like it to be for the usual variety of reasons.

Personally i don't.

 

[kirkgas]

My sisters husband does work on the side, and has been a gas engineer for over 13yrs however he doesnt have his own gas.

Hes asked me if i can sign his work off (filling in benchmark under my business, commissioning etc)
I thought yea i could do this, aslong as its up to scratch and i do all the tests i know

Is this ok to do?
Basically having someone to do the installation and all im doing is signing the job off?

is it ok to do ??????? are you off your head, you pay to get qualified and re-do ACS and buy PLI and a van etc etc etc, and he steals from his employer to do a homer and you sign it off, tell him to give the gas work to you then you can buy a holiday from the profit, it makes no difference if he is family, you owe him nothig as he is asking you to break the law so he can make cash, and if anything goes wrong he cant back you up as he didnt do the job,
the only way this can be done is for you to actually supervise him 1:1 on the job and split the money, but if you are SE and he is employed by someone else that will bring its own problems,
i think anyone who asks a qualified guy to sign off their work is a cheeky git, but any qualified person who actyually signs it off is an idiot

 

[kirkgas]

You'll never be able to stop it though, and surely this has been happening for donkeys years??
I'm not saying its right or ok just impossible to stop.

you are right it goes on all the time, but remember it can only happen with rogue gas registered guys doing it, so it is up to each individual whether they want to break the law or not, if you know its happening report it, if we all acted resposibly it wont happen but that will never be the case, ok cowboys are harming the industry but signing off others work allows the work to be done in the first place

 

[kirkgas]

Fully respect all the views and this has touched a sore point for people. In regards to how many plumbers are about, i keep ALL my work on WORD OF MOUTH, only advertising i do is flyers for LPG Sites, my vans signwritten. Thats all. So since theres so many plumbers around doing side work. Im getting business by signing off work that provides me with food on the table and making a living. Of course im getting paid because i declare EVERYTHING, ive been in merchants and nearly 9/10 every self employed plumber isnt declaring every job. However i like to do jobs by the book, no short cuts especially when its my name on the paperwork!

I dont see the problem as long as ive checked the jobs out with a fine toothcomb to make sure everythings up to scratch!

If it isnt, i get him to put stuff right, no back chat just do it. I get my money and i also get loyalty points off the manufacturers for promoting that make of boiler

My town has close to 30 sole traders and 4 companies....you can appriciate its hard to make a living when ive spend so much time and money in doing it the right way

so you turn up after the install is up and running and check EVERYTHING is ok? first of all the time between switch on and you getting there the boiler is running and isnt commissioned, you then switch off and drain, remove the flue and boiler to check the fixings are right, then refit the boiler and split every flue joint to check they are done right, (remember poor fitting of flues led to TB008 and all the hassle that has brought us) you then lift every floor and check every yorkshire joint is properly run, then you test and purge etc etc etc etc etc
what you are doing is high risk for low pay, you are off your head and damamging the industry, ok you tell the tax man about every penny you earn and are happy to risk the lives of customers and then your own liberty as you will need to go to jail as you are signing to say you did it, if you dont mind answering, how much cash do you charge for this indemnity service?
haha you can tell im not completely happy with people doing what you do, cant you

 

[Koogatubac]

so you turn up after the install is up and running and check EVERYTHING is ok? first of all the time between switch on and you getting there the boiler is running and isnt commissioned, you then switch off and drain, remove the flue and boiler to check the fixings are right, then refit the boiler and split every flue joint to check they are done right, (remember poor fitting of flues led to TB008 and all the hassle that has brought us) you then lift every floor and check every yorkshire joint is properly run, then you test and purge etc etc etc etc etc
what you are doing is high risk for low pay, you are off your head and damamging the industry, ok you tell the tax man about every penny you earn and are happy to risk the lives of customers and then your own liberty as you will need to go to jail as you are signing to say you did it, if you dont mind answering, how much cash do you charge for this indemnity service?
haha you can tell im not completely happy with people doing what you do, cant you

Wth do you think you are? I told it was over and u your tiny brain failed to register that. Why dont you hush down before you give yourself a heartattack...
Read earlier.. It says the topic is finished

 

[Koogatubac]

And yes, guy installs it, i rip everything apart inc fittings and do it all again to make sure 😉

 

[Koogatubac]

Sorry kirk, i apoligise, just i made my discision from asking the rest of the gas engineers days ago. But the post is still going on. Appriciate your views kirkgas but the discision has been made

 

[SimonG]

Different on the oil front. Apparently anybody can install but only oftec can sign off. I make quite a bit signing off, BUT IT HAS TO BE RIGHT. If it's not right I charge for a return when it is right.

 

[kirkgas]

Wth do you think you are? I told it was over and u your tiny brain failed to register that. Why dont you hush down before you give yourself a heartattack...
Read earlier.. It says the topic is finished

so you are breaking the law, conning local firms out of money, conning the government out of tax, come on here and ask for a cuddle and rightly get your plumbs kicked, then say "oh stop it, i wont do it again" your incompetance and lack of professionalism wont give me a heart attack, and if the rest of us want to discuss you and the other idiots who do what you did, then we will do so, so back off, you have instigated a conversation on one of the big issues that are harming the industry so we will rant as we see fit, and of the description i gave of what you should do when checking an illegal install what do you do or not do and if you havent acted professionally and have taken money under false pretext will you go back and do the job properly now you know the right way (there is a TB on the subject, which as a pro you will have read before attempting such work)

 

[kirkgas]

Different on the oil front. Apparently anybody can install but only oftec can sign off. I make quite a bit signing off, BUT IT HAS TO BE RIGHT. If it's not right I charge for a return when it is right.

the difference being with oil you are working within the law, and as you are oftec and have proved the standards are correct, then you are quite right to earn money from doing what you are doing