Soil Pan Misaligned - Wall Hung Toilet

[Phil5698]

Good morning, I'm looking for some advice please. I'm a DIYer. I'm fitting a wall hung toilet in our downstairs toilet but the frame is very close to the soil pipe, it has to be really for it to work. My issue is (other than not planning it well) the soil pipe alignment. Pics below:



As you can see, I have ~100mm drop to make in about 120mm horizontal distance. Although I have secured the frame I can move it (although drilling into the concrete floor again isn't something I'll look forward to). I've looked at the various connectors that might work - 100mm offset pan connector and a short flexible connector, but I'm not sure either will work. They're 15-20 quid a go so don't want to keep buying them in the hope that something may work. I also considered a 45 degree connector, but again not sure if the angle will be right. My other thought was buying a 90 degree flexible hose and not using the provided black one you can see in the pics, but that seems to be designed to sit in the mounting point, whereas the flexible one probably won't.

This picture will show why moving it right - which seems to be the obvious solution isn't ideal, as it will no longer then sit under the window.



Can anyone offer some advice please? Is this resolvable? Thanks in advance.

 

[Ben-gee]

Do not use flexible. Also do not use pan connector at the stack. The pan connector is behind the orange blanking cup.
From stack use rigid 110 and an angled socket, which you can marry up with the black outlet pipe - which you should angle downwards. If necessary you can get an adjustable 110 which you cut off at the appropriate length to give the angle required, this can be tricky but is the most robust way of doing it in the space you have. Don't forget you can also shorten the black pipe if needed.
It is definitely doable.

 

[snowhead]

As above don't use a pan connector into the stack.
It should work with a short piece of soil pipe straight out the stack into a 135 bend as link below, then up to the frame elbow fitting cut down and turned 45 degrees dwn.

https://www.NoLinkingToThis/p/floplast-sp440-135-top-offset-bend-black/88027

Draw the layout on the floor or paper to scale with the pipe end positions and it'll show it's possible.

 

[Phil5698]

Got it thanks. The system came with an adaptor to go into the stack that connects to the pan connector - the white part in the pics seems to be solvent welded on. So the plan is buy some soil pipe - https://www.NoLinkingToThis/p/floplast-sp8b-soil-pipe-single-socket-black-110mm-x-1m/79994, cut off a short section, go from stack to 45 degree elbow - https://www.NoLinkingToThis/p/floplast-sp440-135-top-offset-bend-black/88027 - then cut the pan connector to fit?

 

[snowhead]

You'll need the adapter into the 135 bend for the cut down frame pan connector to fit in.

I don't think you'll need it but you can get the 135 without 1 socket end so it fits straight into the stack if space is short, might be worth buying both, you can take it back if not used;

https://www.NoLinkingToThis/p/floplast-sp163-135-bend-single-socket-black-110mm/63147

Measure twice (or more) then cut !
If in doubt, cut too long then cut down as required.

 

[Phil5698]

Great. With not having any soil pipe lying around, that may be the better option. I won't have to buy any soil pipe then and less cuts to make. Just need to get the cut on the frame pan right.

So - 45 elbow, into stack, adapter into elbow, frame pipe cut down into elbow/adapter.

Thanks for the advice on the cutting. I only have a hacksaw. I've read taping some paper round the pipe give a straight edge is a good way of getting the cut straight. I've never tried to cut anything bigger than 40mm before.

Thank you very much for the advice.

 

[Phil5698]

As ben-gee mentioned, this may be worthwhile to give me some room on the angle 110mm 0-45° Adjustable Soil Pipe Bend ? What do you think?

 

[Chalked]

Also your frame is too low!
There is a mark on the left leg of the frame. Which o think is .7m. That is a measurement from fished floor.
I presume you will have some sort of tile, or other finish. This needs to be allowed for.
I normally allow 20mm for floor finish, then add the frame allowance, then another 15mm. This will then give you a toilet seat height of 16 inch, which is a normal height in this country.

 

[Phil5698]

I appreciate you pointing that out. I'll raise it later. I do recall something in the instructions about that now you come to mention it. Fortunately it's only fixing into wood I'll have to move. I'm glad I posted 🙂

 

[Phil5698]

I'm waiting for the "you need to call a plumber" comments lol if you don't try you don't learn is my motto

 

[Jones82]

You can raise the frame using the chrome bolts on the bottom left and right of the frame. Undo them lift the metal frame and it will slide up on the steel "legs" Then tighten the bolts again.

You'll also have to unscrew it from the wooden batons before it will slide up, then screw in again at the new height.

 

[oz-plumber]

By looking at the pics, I feel that a 45 bend will be too much angle.

Can you guys get 30 bends?

Also, the OP better get this right. If it leaks in the future, after the wall has been finished, it's back to square 1.
It should be noted that there are installation instructions and they should be read an installed as per instructions.
I have come across a few of these installations that have not been installed correctly and they are messy and costly to repair

 

[Ben-gee]

That's why I say no pan connector, no flexis. The adjustable fitting OP shows is a ring seal one, I personally wouldn't use that either. Marley make an adjustable two part solvent weld one; a slow bend with markings showing degrees, you cut this at the appropriate place on the bend and then solvent weld the collar part. Like I said it is tricky to do but extremely robust long term. I think there are two sizes 0-15degrees and 0-30. These are a real get you out of trouble fitting, if like me you don't wish to bury a flexi and just hope.
I too have seen expensive failures when people try to cut corners...
These fittings are quite pricey but really - spend the extra £20 now and save hundreds down the line.

 

[Phil5698]

I'm going to raise the frame tonight, which will increase the angle, and see what it's like. I've bought the single ended 135 bend that slots straight into the soil pipe. I'll fit and see how close I am. If it's not close enough, couldn't I get the double ended 135 bend adjust the length of the pipe between the soil pipe and the bend until the angle lines up?

I must admit I am nervous about this. I can't think of a way to really test it, as the toilet doesn't go on until right at the end really.

 

[Phil5698]

I used the 45 elbow into stack, trimmed the pan connector about 30mm and it seems to be ok.



I raised the frame to the suggested height - 720, but to make the angle work on the pan pipe I had to raise it by a further 20mm, so I'm about 740mm from unfinished floor height to the 0.7m marker on the frame, I'm guessing this will be ok.

From what I can see, the most likely place I'll get a leak is going into the stack. That section is probably 20 years old but there's no shifting it.



I was thinking about giving this a good dose of silicone sealant all the way around. I appreciate it shouldn't be necessary with push fit and it's a bit of a bodge, but it seems like an extra layer of protection against a leak.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

It won't harm but you could also get a jug of water and pour it down to see if anything on the bottom leaks

 

[Phil5698]

Thanks, I'll give that a go too.

 

[Raccus]

was said earlier not to use a flexible connector, what is the reaosn for that please? Im going to have a WC that will be about 100-150mm misaligned to a pipe going straight out the back through the wall. Was intending to use a flexi for that.

 

[Welder]

Most toilets fitted in the UK are too low for easy use by older people. With it being lifted as it is you will make it much easier for older users.

FYI, the effort required to rise from a WC when you legs are at 90 degrees (typical 420mm seat height) is nearly TWICE that reqd to rise from one set at 480mm (approx 98 degrees).

 

[Ben-gee]

Comfort/ease of use increases with height ( bit messy if standing vertically, so there are limits!); however medically the opposite is true. Program on radio 4 said that at knee angle of less than 90 internal bits are restricted. So the old “squat and drop” ‘foreign’ toilets are better for you - not much good for reading the paper. The same effect can be achieved by placing your feet on a box/step whilst sitting down on a pan. So I suppose the best all round would be a raised pan for ease of use with a box to place feet on - I wonder in duravit will make a nice ceramic one.

 

[Welder]

Hey what do I know. Only fit em and listen to feedback from users...
I get the internal thing, but in the western world the biggest issue is loss of muscle tone due to lack of exercise & obesity 🙁
In a third world nation that is rarely a problem.
So far as Im concerned, happy punters pay the mortgage not gerontologists or anthropologists 🙄