Sooted up AND baffles burned out..

[Bunker]

Had a very weird one today.
My colleague serviced a Grant Euroflame 3 months ago and all was ok. Called back today as it had packed in and kitchen full of soot (custard cleared it up bless em).
I couldnt get the burner out without removing the blast tube (RBL) and when I fished out the thickly sooted baffles, the bottom 2 were split and twisted with all the plate debris in the bottom of the boiler. The blast tube was so flared out that it wouldnt fit through the hole anymore - incredible damage in there.
.55 60 ES was used at 125psi and the air (manual shutter) wasn't opened much yet alone over aired.

The oil pump was also leaking. I just threw a new burner on (X400 - lovely).

Can anyone think how this could happen - looks like seriously lean followed by sooting up. No baffles were obstructing the airways, they buckle but dont really get in the way.

A weird one.

 

[lame plumber]

something failed giving too much heat giving resultant damage blocking flue flow hence sooting up, that or your mate set it all up really wrong 🙂

 

[Best]

I see that all the time Bunker. If a boiler shell soots up, then most of the heat from the flame concentrates on the baffles & destroys them. Soot from an oil boiler is a brilliant insulator & means it is like putting the baffles into a furnace. You will often find the baffles expand in thickness & get weak like a biscuit. They also can start pealing metal like bits of egg shells. I saw one where the baffles were completely missing except a few fragments of egg shell - like bits of metal in base of boiler. In that one somebody had touched the oil pump pressure long before & turned it to about 300 psi when foolishly bleeding the oil pump.

 

[Bunker]

Thanks Best, that makes sense. Ive often wondered why RDB photocells fail when they get sooty - same thing I guess.
Cheers all.

 

[Best]

Scary bit is a nozzle can just go faulty instantly & cause the same problem, even if boiler set up well.
This is where it pays to perhaps stay on the safe side of air adjustment by increasing the air intake a tad to get say, 11% no more than CO2. Slightly less efficient setting than what is sometimes possible, but gives a bit of margin for allowance of possible nozzle wear.
On the other hand, over airing can be also serious as you know. A bit too much air & boiler may burn clean but oil is not fully burnt & wasted out in fumes - often totally unnoticed. Way too much air to oil ratio & soot or tar happens. I always remember a Warmflow 120 I went to after an idiot "service" man fitted a 0.5 nozzle in it. Exactly thick bitumin paint inside on shell. Nothing removes it other than letting it burn off over time after I fitted the correct 1.0 nozzle.

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

i dont do oil,but i do know they dont smoke if running well,would this one not be smoking its guts out therefore giving a visual indicator to the customer? also was this a RS appliance?if so how did the kitchen soot up?

 

[Best]

Can't avoid soot from an oil boiler invisibly rising & falling all over when you open the boiler door. Oil soot is strange stuff - basically oily soot full of air & very lightweight. Turns to black ink when you rub it with a cloth. If an oil boiler or flue is full of deep soot, when you use a cleaner on it the soot compresses down to a a fraction of its volume.
I find that if an oil boiler has no gaps at seals anywhere, then no sooting is noticed.

 

[bright spark]

Best is spot on about nozzle and soothing up. Don't suppose some1 could hav put diesel oil I tank instead of kerosene.

 

[MarkOil]

This is all very true, been to an 8 month old Grant boiler, completely sooted up, took it apart and all the baffles were bent buckled and missing parts, found nothing wrong with the settings or any obstructions it was all fine. Sent nozzle off to Grant and they replied telling me it was letting through far too much oil. Was fine when initially set up combustion, but then failed.
Serviced it a year later, all ok.
Running a boiler lean will save it sooting up (kind of) but if there is too much air, the flame can bounce back off the back wall and then soot up the nozzle, elcectrodes, diffuser and PE Cell.
Or you just end up with yellowy crusty lumps of products of combustion all in the boiler which can then fuse baffles in place.
Co2 set a 11% in winter and rise to over 12% on a hot summers day!
If a customer has to keep cleaning the PE Cell throughout the year, boiler is not running correctly.

 

[Dotty]

Take a butchers at this. Found this one today.



Insufficient ventilation, second boiler removed by another contractor who left the flue way open. Boiler choked itself up on dirty air.

 

[Millsy 82]

Take a butchers at this. Found this one today.

View attachment 20296View attachment 20297

Insufficient ventilation, second boiler removed by another contractor who left the flue way open. Boiler choked itself up on dirty air.

Poor Henry is gonna get worked hard on that job!

 

[Millsy 82]

This is all very true, been to an 8 month old Grant boiler, completely sooted up, took it apart and all the baffles were bent buckled and missing parts, found nothing wrong with the settings or any obstructions it was all fine. Sent nozzle off to Grant and they replied telling me it was letting through far too much oil. Was fine when initially set up combustion, but then failed.
Serviced it a year later, all ok.
Running a boiler lean will save it sooting up (kind of) but if there is too much air, the flame can bounce back off the back wall and then soot up the nozzle, elcectrodes, diffuser and PE Cell.
Or you just end up with yellowy crusty lumps of products of combustion all in the boiler which can then fuse baffles in place.
Co2 set a 11% in winter and rise to over 12% on a hot summers day!
If a customer has to keep cleaning the PE Cell throughout the year, boiler is not running correctly.

I have had that on a 10 month old.

Never seen one like it and I said to the customer it's not been set up right! Tested pump pressure and the air was virtually full open but couldn't get the co2 below 12% it was burning clean and as they didn't have the manual there (rented property and landlord had the manual) and in the middle of no where so no signal on my phone I left it overnight and went back next day. I took the baffles out on the 1st visit and do what I always do and set them up how I take them out, turns out they were put in the wrong way round (which grant say is impossible but it can be done) so swapped it round and all worked perfectly.

I don't know if it came out of the factory like that, if the commissioning engineer took them out and put them back in wrong, or someone else had touched them.

 

[MarkOil]

No way!! So many people don't make simple checks like that.
Croppie - It's nice to see someone else who takes all the access hatches off commercial boilers to clean, rather than just doing the main blast furnace. How many hoover bags did you get through?
The annoying thing about soot is it doesn't take a lot to line the inside of the bag and stopping suction, I have to keep taking henry apart and ruffling the bag (I feel for you on that boiler).

 

[bigads28]

Take a butchers at this. Found this one today.

View attachment 20296View attachment 20297

Insufficient ventilation, second boiler removed by another contractor who left the flue way open. Boiler choked itself up on dirty air.

That reminds me of a boiler I attended a few years back when I dabbled in commercial boilers. This particular boiler was located in a rural school that had a janitor that thought he knew everything........he didn't. Decided to adjust the air on the boiler until he could see a touch of smoke coming out of the chimney because that's how they should burn apparently. The soot wasn't even funny absolutly blocked rock solid, two days to clean the damn thing out properly.

 

[MarkOil]

Some people do love a dabble! When I do come across boilers in that kind of state I'm not afraid to move jobs later in the day and spend an extra hour or 2 on them, Wouldn't want to criticize someone else's shoddy workmanship then get called back myself lol, and custards generally don't mind coughing up for my extra time.
Too many 'Boiler Engineers' want to get in and out in an hour.

 

[Dotty]

No way!! So many people don't make simple checks like that.
Croppie - It's nice to see someone else who takes all the access hatches off commercial boilers to clean, rather than just doing the main blast furnace. How many hoover bags did you get through?
The annoying thing about soot is it doesn't take a lot to line the inside of the bag and stopping suction, I have to keep taking henry apart and ruffling the bag (I feel for you on that boiler).

Ended up not touching it. Responsibility lay with the clowns who removed the other boiler. I closed the boiler up, isolated it and beat a hasty retreat......