System to Combi upgrade or not?

[Dante]

A 2 floor (loft converted into a room) flat I let in a period stone walled/high ceilinged building has a heating system installed in the 80's. The boiler is a Thorn wall mounted system boiler which, IMO as the landlord, is reliable and cheap to maintain when necessary.

2 problems identified by tenants and observed by myself:
- pilot light randomly goes out in windy weather
- The loft room radiator doesn't get very hot
- The boiler could be relatively inefficient and therefore put tenants off

The gas engineer that I call to maintain the system flushed the top radiator and its still not getting very warm. In his opinion the system is a one pipe system that should ideally be upgraded to a two pipe system with a combi boiler and TRV's as well as a room thermostat. I went for a second opinion and the engineer says it doesn't matter about the system, just cleanse the system, upgrade the boiler and install TRV's and a room thermostat.

My questions:

Other than looking under floorboards etc. is there a way to tell if its a one or two pipe system?
Would a better exterior flue solve the pilot light problem?
Do I really need TRV's on existing single panel radiators as well as a wall thermostat?
Could I not just install new double panel radiators and turn the pump up?
Are the engineers talking sense?

 

[lame plumber]

looks like you just want us to give you the answer you want, ie leave as is, which as you probably know is keeping an inefficient system thats expensive to run. Dont worry though the government will probably make it illegal to rent out properties like this in due course, so then you'll have to upgrade to meet modern standards.

 

[Dante]

To be honest if it's possible to improve the heating system without scrapping a perfectly good boiler I don't see why I should until I need to. That doesn't mean I won't if it needs doing, but first I need to know what I'm dealing with and what my options are.

 

[Ermintrude]

It won't be illegal but it's gonna result in a £5k fine. If no new boiler registered with council

 

[IDCHAPPY]

A thorn wall hung..... welcome to the 80's

 

[Killy Bing]

Yup engineers are talking sense, mainly number 1 but as with landlords, you just see cost 😛

You can't legally modify the flue as you wont be able to get parts, nor would it help.

upgrade it and get a sensible job done first time round, look at it as an investment now.

Between two properties savvy people will rent a house with a modern heating system as they know it'l be say atleast 20% cheaper for them to run with no difference in rent.

no brainer isn't it tbh

 

[stevetheplumber]

pilot light going out could be caused by overheating or poor maintenance but to be honest its probably time to bite the bullet and upgrade two pipe is better but no reason you cant connect a new boiler on one pipe however you will need to upgrade your controls to reach modern standards

 

[Millsy 82]

Has the radiator ever worked well?

 

[Dante]

Thanks fellas, I agree it's probably time to upgrade the system.

Steve: what controls would I need to upgrade?

Millsy: no complaints previously, so it must have at some point.

In theory increasing the setting on the pump might help increase flow to the loft room, but would it work in practice?

 

[Bronze_tap]

A 2 floor (loft converted into a room)....
The gas engineer that I call to maintain the system flushed the top radiator and its still not getting very warm. In his opinion the system is a one pipe system that should ideally be upgraded to a two pipe system with a combi boiler and TRV's as well as a room thermostat.

1. What about repiping that long, convoluted 15mm pipe run (probably 10m+) to the upstairs rad with 22mm or 28mm 🙂 pipe?, + connect the pipe diagonally and move the bypass to the rad. + Double the rad size? & use 3/4' lockshields&TRVs + Have some limiter valve on the upstairs rad bypass, but do not block the circuit completely!
2. A modern condensing/modulating boiler would be a good addition to the system.
3. If 1&2 don't help -> than 2& complete repipe. Use 22mm as much as possible for a GOOD FLOW RATE 🙂

PS: Make sure any TRV(s) in the room with thermostat is ALWAYS FULLY OPEN!

 

[Ermintrude]

1. What about repiping that long, convoluted 15mm pipe run (probably 10m+) to the upstairs rad with 22mm or 28mm 🙂 pipe?, + connect the pipe diagonally and move the bypass to the rad. + Double the rad size? & use 3/4' lockshields&TRVs + Have some limiter valve on the upstairs rad bypass, but do not block the circuit completely!
2. A modern condensing/modulating boiler would be a good addition to the system.
3. If 1&2 don't help -> than 2& complete repipe. Use 22mm as much as possible for a GOOD FLOW RATE 🙂

PS: Make sure any TRV(s) in the room with thermostat is ALWAYS FULLY OPEN!

You fit a room stat and trvs in same room?

 

[Bronze_tap]

You fit a room stat and trvs in same room?

No. If there is a TRV in the room where I want to put a thermostat, than the trv's head flyes off... 🙂 (so it is fully on).
Quite often have to educate lame users/landlords (including my college cleaning lady from the past), that the rads in the thermostat controlled room/corridor should be fully on. Or lots of gas would be wasted...
Especially love users trying to "save" on ASHP heating system and keeping all rads off in the house, instead of turning the room thermostat down... Or condensing boiler with boiler thermostat on max in spring, and all rads in thermostat room off. Also complaining about high gas bills...
This thermodynamics physics course (how to manage heat transfer) should be compulsory in the school in this country...

 

[Dante]

1. What about repiping that long, convoluted 15mm pipe run (probably 10m+) to the upstairs rad with 22mm or 28mm 🙂 pipe?, + connect the pipe diagonally and move the bypass to the rad. + Double the rad size? & use 3/4' lockshields&TRVs + Have some limiter valve on the upstairs rad bypass, but do not block the circuit completely!
2. A modern condensing/modulating boiler would be a good addition to the system.
3. If 1&2 don't help -> than 2& complete repipe. Use 22mm as much as possible for a GOOD FLOW RATE 🙂

PS: Make sure any TRV(s) in the room with thermostat is ALWAYS FULLY OPEN!

Well I went for option 3 and all is good but is it safe to have the power supply cable to the boiler going across and touching the copper pipes directly below the boiler?

 

[Centralheatking]

Just talk with ray stafford - he will supply
your gear CHK

Thanks fellas, I agree it's probably time to upgrade the system.

Steve: what controls would I need to upgrade?

Millsy: no complaints previously, so it must have at some point.

In theory increasing the setting on the pump might help increase flow to the loft room, but would it work in practice?