Tankless Toilet from Attic Tank

[townfanjon]

Surely theres room for a concealed cistern ( eg grohe adajo ) straight above the pan flush pipe .
I have a back to wall pan against a tiled dry wall where the flush pipe is in the wall and directly connected on to the cistern in the loft a pneumatic push button operates the flush , it works a treat.

 

[Simeon]

Surely theres room for a concealed cistern ( eg grohe adajo ) straight above the pan flush pipe .
I have a back to wall pan against a tiled dry wall where the flush pipe is in the wall and directly connected on to the cistern in the loft a pneumatic push button operates the flush , it works a treat.

I probably could put in a concealed cistern if I have to, but it'd mean I have to bring the wall out a bit in that place, so it'd look better if I could get it to flush directly from the loft cistern.

It sounds like that's what you've done here - if so do you have details of the valve / push button that you used? Or did you put a cistern in the wall too?

 

[rpm]

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&r...0.html&usg=AFQjCNFQv3XggmTyEMieGTxrS6haev93Ow
TFJ, said he recessed the flush pipe into the wall with the cistern above in the loft, cistern is pneumatic so I`m guessing he used a longer than standard hose between the flush button in the room and the cistern in the loft. Sure he will be along later to reply to you.

 

[Simeon]

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=5&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwi95a218prWAhWLCMAKHSxdDhkQFgiXAjAE&url=https://www.grohe.co.uk/en_gb/adagio-concealed-cistern-6l-37945SH0.html&usg=AFQjCNFQv3XggmTyEMieGTxrS6haev93Ow
TFJ, said he recessed the flush pipe into the wall with the cistern above in the loft, cistern is pneumatic so I`m guessing he used a longer than standard hose between the flush button in the room and the cistern in the loft. Sure he will be along later to reply to you.

Ah, I get it now - thanks. Yes, I think that'd do the job with the cistern in the loft, and it would give better access to the cistern for servicing than burying it in the wall.

 

[townfanjon]

Yep RPM s dead right , just got a longer piece of hose but routed it down through some overflow pipe in the wall so if it split I could replace it very easily , sorry no pics , we are on holiday now , but it looks great , just a pneumatic pushbutton on to the tiles . The cistern was mounted on to some 20 mm ply both base and back screwed together at 90 degrees , with insulation around the cistern , when it flushes .... it flushes !!! , the water comes with a roar lol

 

[rpm]

Yep RPM s dead right , just got a longer piece of hose but routed it down through some overflow pipe in the wall so if it split I could replace it very easily , sorry no pics , we are on holiday now , but it looks great , just a pneumatic pushbutton on to the tiles . The cistern was mounted on to some 20 mm ply both base and back screwed together at 90 degrees , with insulation around the cistern , when it flushes .. it flushes !!! , the water comes with a roar lol

Forgot you were on holiday TFJ and an educated guess on my part. 🙂

 

[townfanjon]

Forgot you were on holiday TFJ and an educated guess on my part. 🙂

Sat in a hotel in Folkestone , getting tunnel in the morning , driving to Spain stop off somewhere in France tomorrow night , 5 nights in Spain , then across to meet up with our old friend and neighbours in Italy for 5 days , back up through France with a stopover , and tunnel back to blighty , just a few miles , never done anything like it , but here goes lol

 

[rpm]

Hope you find an English TV for the football then. 😉

 

[townfanjon]

Hope you find an English TV for the football then. 😉

You know me so well , yep will be looking for a bar tomorrow night for the Town v West Ham match

 

[rpm]

You know me so well , yep will be looking for a bar tomorrow night for the Town v West Ham match

Good idea mate, somewhere to drown your sorrows and all that. 😀

 

[Simeon]

Hi everyone

I've phoned a few places and done some experiments and it seems like there are three options for me.

1. Have no toilet cistern and use a direct flush from my pump. I tried this on an existing toilet and as SeanCorbs thought, it worked pretty well, despite my pump not being able to provide 90lpm, and also my experiment using an existing 1/2'' pipe in places, which would have throttled the flow even more. If I'd used 1'' pipe for the experiment I'd say it would have been perfect. However, it really killed the rate of the flow at the shower when the toilet was flushed, and buying a second pump would be too expensive, so I've ruled out this option.

2. Have no toilet cistern and use a gravity fed feed from the attic tank. I did the calcs on the flow for this and I think it would work fine with 1'' pipe, the only problem is that it's difficult to find a suitable flush valve that works at low pressure. There is one out there, but it's electronic: http://www.wallgate.com/uploads/pro...valve for gravity non potable water Rev 3.pdf and costs around 600 quid (it's more for institutional use) so not a runner. There are mechanical ones that work with 0.4bar, but I won't get that from my attic tank unfortunately.

3. Use a conventional hidden toilet cistern, but put it in the attic, as townfanjohn did (and rpm explained to me). Then I'll use an extended pneumatic hose to connect it to the flush button in the bathroom. This one seems to make the most sense, it'll save me space and allow access to the cistern in the loft, so is what I'm going to go with.

Thanks again for all your help everyone - really appreciate it.

All the best
Simeon

 

[rpm]

KIS

Keep It Simple, less to go wrong then. 😉

 

[dan_the_plumber]

Hi

Has anyone tried running a toilet without a cistern from an attic tank in a normal house?

I'm thinking of installing a toilet with a hidden cistern in my house, and concealing it is a bit of a problem. There's a nice big tank in the attic a few meters above, so I'm wondering if it'd be possible to do away with a separate toilet cistern altogether.

According to wikipedia (link below) a 1' pipe and 2.1 bar of pressure, together with a "flushometer" valve is suitable. I've already installed a Walrus pump coming from the attic tank for the shower, so am wondering if I can use this for the toilet too.

Flush toilet - Wikipedia

Any thoughts? Apologies if this is a ridiculous question - I'm a DIYer, not a plumber!

Simeon

Yes. I'd say you can do that. Your toilet pan may not be able to contain that amount of pressure but might be worth a go.
Maybe you could install a flow limiter just before the toilet pan?
Only problem as far as water regs is back flow protection. Since we're dealing with soil (level 5) and stored cold water (level 2) you might need a DMV backflow prevention valve.
Presumably this valve would be built into
A flush o matic? In fact a flush o matic might well incorporate a flow limiter as well 🙂

 

[dan_the_plumber]

Hi

Has anyone tried running a toilet without a cistern from an attic tank in a normal house?

I'm thinking of installing a toilet with a hidden cistern in my house, and concealing it is a bit of a problem. There's a nice big tank in the attic a few meters above, so I'm wondering if it'd be possible to do away with a separate toilet cistern altogether.

According to wikipedia (link below) a 1' pipe and 2.1 bar of pressure, together with a "flushometer" valve is suitable. I've already installed a Walrus pump coming from the attic tank for the shower, so am wondering if I can use this for the toilet too.

Flush toilet - Wikipedia

Any thoughts? Apologies if this is a ridiculous question - I'm a DIYer, not a plumber!

Simeon

Yes. I'd say you can do that. Your toilet pan may not be able to contain that amount of pressure but might be worth a go.
Maybe you could install a flow limiter just before the toilet pan?
Only problem as far as water regs is back flow protection. Since we're dealing with soil (level 5) and stored cold water (level 2) you might need a DMV backflow prevention valve.
Presumably this valve would be built into
A flush o matic? In fact a flush o matic might well incorporate a flow limiter as well 🙂

 

[bright spark]

Those valves years ago where called victory flush valves as far as I remember.

 

[justlead1]

I have come across flushing systems in the past that did not comply with water bye law. I think they were american.
Basically a pipe from a CWSC to the flush connection of pan and a non concussive valve fitted in-line on a 1" pipe. If my memory is correct.
A WC cistern was known as a waste water preventer with overflow to make people aware of any ball valve issues.
The device mentioned may well be compliant as any filling malfunction can now be diverted to WC pan.

 

[Ric2013]

I worked on a place where the cold water storage cistern (high level on first floor) fed a downstairs WC on the ground floor via a Victory valve on 1 1/2" (40mm) waste pipe The owner had modified the valve because he claimed the flush was excessively long so it now only stayed open as long as you held it open.

I'm pretty sure this sort of system is not supposed to be used on domestic installations, but I may be wrong.

You'd need to check out the backflow protection requirements (I'd have thought a weir overflow cut into the side of the cistern would comply, and make it a dedicated cistern, not shared with something else, like this man had).

Did it work?

Yes, it worked.