Trace heater info or enlarge condensate pipe?

[capitanpugwash]

So I'm down staying with my 84 yr old granddad and woke to a cold house as the boiler had stopped working. The condensate drain had frozen on his new boiler and he has been having to defrost it every few days at the moment. The boiler is inside his integral garage on the outside wall at high level. The condensate drains internally along the wall of the unheated garage in 20mm white plastic pipe. It has a steep fall along the wall (approx 4-5m long with a drop of 2m) before passign outside in 20mm plastic for approximately 6 inches draining into an outside trap. This appears to be where the condensate is freezing and blocking the pipe despite being lagged.

My initial thought was to enlarge the pipe to a 32mm/40mm pipe externally and for a metre internally with a trap to drain the 20mm condensate pipe into. The pipe however runs through a double skin external wall through a stone cladding. I am a few hours from home and have no access to a core drill to enlarge the hole which could be a real hassle with few tools. Having had a scan through here I have found that trace heaters may actually do a better job given that the weather outside is so cold even a 40mm pipe might freeze.

So my question is, would I need to run the trace heater wire along the whole length of the condensate pipe internally (4m) given that the garage is unheated and through the wall to the 300mm of pipe outside? Or just along the last metre or so internally including the outside pipe?

Can anyone who has used the trace heater recommend anything? I cannot get access to the installation instructions for the system like this even from the manufacturer's website.

https://www.abgo.co.uk/index.php?page=shop.browse&category_id=4141&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=26

Any advice? or link to the full installation instructions?

Cheers

CP

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

even double lagged,32mm is still freezing this whether i would go with a trace heater,you would need to run it along the entire length as a garage is a un heated space and out side you will need a 5 meter kit

 

[Chrisgy]

I've never used one gas man but I thought they just take a temperature from outside and there's another part at the boiler to heat up the condensate when the temp drops outside? So could he run a smaller kit to get from boiler to the nearest outside wall? (smaller ones being a lot cheaper)

 

[WHPES]

Is it possible to undo the condensate pipe inside the property and run the condensate into a bucket or something during the cold weather?

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

i have never used a trace heater but looking at them it needs to go the full run

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

Is it possible to undo the condensate pipe inside the property and run the condensate into a bucket or something during the cold weather?

its the danger of fumes escaping via the conden pipe

 

[tr7dan]

Can we clarify the situation here ?

Page 12, diagram 1 of the Worcester CDi installation instructions clearly shows the condensate pipe open to the room via the tundish or the sink waste (plug hole) as it is connected upstream of the trap. Bearing in mind that the washbasin shown could be in a bathroom or even a bedroom. There is nothing I can see that suggests that an open condensate end is not permittted. Also in the Vaillant installation instructions it seems it is permitted to connect into a washing machine standpipe, again this is upstream of any trap and therefore open to the room. Correct me if I'm wrong but, as far as I can see, if the boiler has an integral condensate trap with a 75mm seal (are there any that don't?) then the poc are deemed to be isolated from the room. If I am wrong, then how do we explain the Worcester setup?

Dan

 

[capitanpugwash]

Interesting answers as we considered undoing the condensate pipe and allowing it to run out under the garage door as a continuous flow as this would run along the side of the driveway and only freeze outside (hopefully!). However this would not have beeen a great long term solution. Interesting to hear peoples ideas. I measured the condensate pipe to the boiler from the gully outside and it would require a 7m trace heating kit at nearly £90! However if it creates a completely reliable setup for my 80+ year old grandfather than that's what I'll do to make sure that his boiler doesn't turn itself off when we're not around as it has in the past.

Seems like a bit of a weakspot in the condensing boiler design personally...

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

yes it is a weak design,of all he boilers i am about to try my first trace heater but if it works its a solution to a big problem,can only be a good thing

 

[capitanpugwash]

Cheers Gasman for your input.... Much appreciated.

 

[Heating-eng]

How to unfreeze a frozen condensate pipe

 

[Steve @ TheHeatingHub]

tundish / air break maybe to protect the boiler ?

 

[RoryD]

We fit quite a few traceheaters but the condensulate has just come in. Jury is out on the latter. This'll be the first winter we will be able to confirm the effectiveness of traceheaters. My Brother uses them in khazakstan in winter to keep pipes from freezing and they do ok there. So they should be ok here

 

[mattyp]

Last winter, British gas were cutting frozen condensate pipes inside properties, as short term repairs . If its ok for them ......... [ im sure they have looked into it ! ]