Vaillant Turbomax Plus 824e Wireless Thermostat

[crazydazy1976]

Hi

Could anyone recommend/suggest a plug in wireless RF thermostat for the above boiler.

So far I have looked at:

Vaillant VRT340f but can't work out from the instructions if this is just a timer or if it allows setting of temperature for each time zone

Salus ST620VBC but rang the Salus "technical help line" and even they can't tell me if it will plug straight into my boiler "Don't know mate. It might do or it might not. I can't say."

Thanks

Crazy

 

[Ermintrude]

U need a GSR installer to take case off boiler !

 

[crazydazy1976]

U need a GSR installer to take case off boiler !

With a plug in unit, I don't think you need to take the case off. As far as I am aware, the existing manual timer simply unplugs from the face of the boiler leaving a space for the receiver module to be plugged in.

 

[mountainman]

U need a GSR installer to take case off boiler !

The 824 has a flip down panel to access the electrics, no need to disturb the combustion chamber.

 

[Ermintrude]

The 824 has a flip down panel to access the electrics, no need to disturb the combustion chamber.

Still working on an appliance. U can change flue without taking burner door off. You can disturb gas valve without taking door off. It's working on appliance so 26(9) checks required!

 

[crazydazy1976]

But can I unplug the timer and plug in a receiver unit. I would not need to open anything up at all. It is there staring me in the face.

 

[Ermintrude]

It's much easier and probably safer to employ some one to supply and fix an external stat / programmer and carryout annual service, safety checks.

It's a simple boiler and most stat programmers will work.

The manufacturers information details some possible combinations of stats and the wiring options, page 32 to 35.

 

[crazydazy1976]

Boiler had it's annual service in April as part of a service agreement and I really don't want to spend more money getting something done that I can do myself. If its allowed and fairly straight forward

 

[Ray Stafford]

Salus ST620VBC but rang the Salus "technical help line" and even they can't tell me if it will plug straight into my boiler "Don't know mate. It might do or it might not. I can't say."

I don't recommend going the Salus route, but I can shed some light on the approach you got from Salus.

The ST620VBC is designed for the current models of Vaillant - Ecotec Pro and Plus models. It's very existence has caused some confusion - at one point Vaillant were saying that fitting the Salus unit would invalidate their warranty. After some exchange of technical data, Vaillant have now issued a tech bulletin to their service staff saying that the Salus unit is ok in current models, although not all the engineers are up to date with their reading, and we had a case recently where a service engineer told the householder that he wouldn't touch the boiler until the Salus unit was removed. Lots of angry phone calls later, they accepted that the service engineer was acting on out-of-date instructions.

However, I don't imagine that they checked compatibility with the entire Vaillant back catalogue, and the Turbomax is quite old now, so you may be making trouble for yourself in the future by using a Salus.

 

[Masood]

Still working on an appliance. U can change flue without taking burner door off. You can disturb gas valve without taking door off. It's working on appliance so 26(9) checks required!

Nonsense! You're not working on the gas supply or combustion side of the boiler so (26, 9) doesn't apply. By your rationale if the fuse blows in the spur supplying the boiler you'd need a GSR to change it!

 

[crazydazy1976]

I don't recommend going the Salus route, but I can shed some light on the approach you got from Salus.

The ST620VBC is designed for the current models of Vaillant - Ecotec Pro and Plus models. It's very existence has caused some confusion - at one point Vaillant were saying that fitting the Salus unit would invalidate their warranty. After some exchange of technical data, Vaillant have now issued a tech bulletin to their service staff saying that the Salus unit is ok in current models, although not all the engineers are up to date with their reading, and we had a case recently where a service engineer told the householder that he wouldn't touch the boiler until the Salus unit was removed. Lots of angry phone calls later, they accepted that the service engineer was acting on out-of-date instructions.

However, I don't imagine that they checked compatibility with the entire Vaillant back catalogue, and the Turbomax is quite old now, so you may be making trouble for yourself in the future by using a Salus.

Thanks Ray. Good advice thanks. Now I just need to find out if the Vaillant stat will control the temperature. I know nothing of the regs side of tings so I'll keep out of that one :bucktooth:

 

[Ermintrude]

Nonsense! You're not working on the gas supply or combustion side of the boiler so (26, 9) doesn't apply. By your rationale if the fuse blows in the spur supplying the boiler you'd need a GSR to change it!

Sorry but can u define "work" in respect to 26(9) ? Controls is controls! Also by default yes if the fuse blows, IEEE and electricity at work regs require u to ascertain why fault occurred and make safe a situation before you re energise ? But rules are made to be broken. Can an apprentice go off and replace pcb as that's not affecting combustion side or gas? Because if there is a fault on combustion changing pcb won't hurt it even if co is at 7400ppm?

 

[Masood]

Sorry but can u define "work" in respect to 26(9) ? Controls is controls! Also by default yes if the fuse blows, IEEE and electricity at work regs require u to ascertain why fault occurred and make safe a situation before you re energise ? But rules are made to be broken. Can an apprentice go off and replace pcb as that's not affecting combustion side or gas? Because if there is a fault on combustion changing pcb won't hurt it even if co is at 7400ppm?

You are achieving the quite remarkable feat of splitting hairs whilst simultaneously failing to acknowledge the bigger picture - and I think you're doing it to be provocative.

If you KNOW the CO to be at 7400ppm then of course you wouldn't just send an apprentice to swap the pcb. Equally, it is not always necessary to investigate why a fuse has blown - they go with age. Only if they blow regularly and repeatedly would you suspect a fault.

Controls is controls? Well, not really. Would you insist on a GSR to change a wall-mounted programmer or room stat, if they were just swapping the unit onto the existing base plate? This is the same kind of "work"...

 

[Ermintrude]

No but part p would require that a suitably qualified electrician changed a wall mounted stat.

The point was that the apprentice wouldn't know if the co was 7400 or 74? He's not qualified to test it? Or check the gas rate or burner pressure?

In retrospect yes it's fine, open boiler up connect live and neutral to l & n on stat respectively and terminals 3&4 to switch on stat...... Oh did you forget to disconnect the appliance? Sorry kids, it was staring your now dead dad in the face and some bloke thought splitting hairs was pointless !

 

[Masood]

No but part p would require that a suitably qualified electrician changed a wall mounted stat.

The point was that the apprentice wouldn't know if the co was 7400 or 74? He's not qualified to test it? Or check the gas rate or burner pressure?

In retrospect yes it's fine, open boiler up connect live and neutral to l & n on stat respectively and terminals 3&4 to switch on stat...... Oh did you forget to disconnect the appliance? Sorry kids, it was staring your now dead dad in the face and some bloke thought splitting hairs was pointless !

Eh???

It's a plug-in device! You don't need to open the boiler case. Are you suggesting that you need to be Part P or GSR to simply unplug and plug in a self-contained module?

 

[crazydazy1976]

No but part p would require that a suitably qualified electrician changed a wall mounted stat.

The point was that the apprentice wouldn't know if the co was 7400 or 74? He's not qualified to test it? Or check the gas rate or burner pressure?

In retrospect yes it's fine, open boiler up connect live and neutral to l & n on stat respectively and terminals 3&4 to switch on stat...... Oh did you forget to disconnect the appliance? Sorry kids, it was staring your now dead dad in the face and some bloke thought splitting hairs was pointless !

I did say I wouldn't get involved in this half of the thread but I feel that I must.

The wall mounted stat on a wireless unit, which is what this is about, is battery operated. If Part P regs extended to these circumstances, no-one would be allowed to change a battery in a torch. Also, if you charged me a call out fee, turned up, unplugged the existing timer (unplugged not disconnected mind) plugged the new unit in (plugged in not wired in), put two batteries in the portable room stat and waltzed off, it is fair to say that I would not be a happy bunny. It would be like someone charging me £60 to unplug my TV every night.

 

[Ermintrude]

Eh???

It's a plug-in device! You don't need to open the boiler case. Are you suggesting that you need to be Part P or GSR to simply unplug and plug in a self-contained module?

No you asked if needed to be GSR to change wall mounted stat.

Yes I do think that you should be a GSR to change a plugin module . The pcb is a plug in module also, as are a few of the thermister / cut out stats?

Think apc had same number of connections and isn't it mounted on external of burner just above expansion?

 

[crazydazy1976]

Thank you all for your input. I will check in tomorrow.

Good night

 

[Ermintrude]

I did say I wouldn't get involved in this half of the thread but I feel that I must.

The wall mounted stat on a wireless unit, which is what this is about, is battery operated. If Part P regs extended to these circumstances, no-one would be allowed to change a battery in a torch. Also, if you charged me a call out fee, turned up, unplugged the existing timer (unplugged not disconnected mind) plugged the new unit in (plugged in not wired in), put two batteries in the portable room stat and waltzed off, it is fair to say that I would not be a happy bunny. It would be like someone charging me £60 to unplug my TV every night.

Your tv won't kill you with CO. and not simply permitted to walk in and out safety checks are mandatory. Was talking about a wired wall mounted stat. And the installation of electrical heating controls are notifiable under the building regulations I think, might just be on new install.

I simply think that you and your family would be better off if your boiler was serviced and checked and the stat installed by a competent and qualified engineer.

Apologies if I have annoyed you and seemed confrontational. My points seem to have fallen on deaf ears. With the money u save go and buy a new carbon monoxide detector.

 

[crazydazy1976]

Your tv won't kill you with CO. and not simply permitted to walk in and out safety checks are mandatory. Was talking about a wired wall mounted stat. And the installation of electrical heating controls are notifiable under the building regulations I think, might just be on new install.

I simply think that you and your family would be better off if your boiler was serviced and checked and the stat installed by a competent and qualified engineer.

Apologies if I have annoyed you and seemed confrontational. My points seem to have fallen on deaf ears. With the money u save go and buy a new carbon monoxide detector.

No offence taken Ermintrude, and I am in no position to argue the point on gas regs, I have to take you guys' take on it. From a lay persons point of view, it just seems crazy that I can't simply unplug one module and plug in another, especially when that is all I have to do. If it is not safe, surely Vaillant shouldn't make it so easy to do.

Anyway, I genuinely do appreciate your concern for our safety and you will be pleased to know that I have a service contract and have smoke and carbon monoxide detectors in all rooms.

Kind regards

Crazy