Valve confusion

[bacon_sandwich]

Very old system, 3 boilers in a cellar, steel pipework 2 inch, 3 inch out of the cellar to a large commercial lodge. No info about what zones do what but some old markings on the return pipes to give a clue.
client reported one area is getting too hot and when she switches it off (using a light switch) it still stays hot.
Found valve, which is a Honeywell what looks like a 0-10V proportional valve with a removal plate head which appear to rotate the valve through 180 degress. Removed the electric control plate head to operate the valve manually and it spins through 360 degrees without an obvious open and shut position. The valve body does not appear to have a gearbox so confused about what type of valve it is. The indicator plate of the valve clearly shows 180 degrees of movement from cold to hot .
Any ideas ? - I have tried to guess the shut position and left the controls off as it was all very hot and asked the client to left me know if its cooling down now.....
The valve operates smoothly so hope its not sheared off inside.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Diverter valve / bleed off valve normally links flow and return

Eg too hot valve starts to open so most of the flow goes down return etc

 

[bacon_sandwich]

2 port valve, bottom of valve direct into return manifold, above it splits into 2 pipes both labelled return. More confused what valve works with 180 degrees of movement , thx

 

[ShaunCorbs]

2 port valve, bottom of valve direct into return manifold, above it splits into 2 pipes both labelled return. More confused what valve works with 180 degrees of movement , thx

You got a pic ?

 

[bacon_sandwich]

No sorry, been trying to find image off honeywells site, cannot even find a number for honeywell commercial valves, bad day i think.

 

[bacon_sandwich]

Search Honeywell til blue in the face. Thinking about it, i may well have stumbled into a "fixing something that never could have worked"

When i go back will photo it but from memory it did look like a 3 port valve with the T port blanked off. There appears to be no thermostat so cannot understand how it was supposed to work as they operate it via a switch, so why not just install a on/off 2 port valve.

 

[Last Plumber]

Like this?

 

[bacon_sandwich]

Wow, that is it. If you remove the screw at the centre of "handle" the whole mechanism comes off leaving just the valve body. Its just 2 port though and 2 inch pipes. As mentioned i did notice a blanked off port at the side of the valve body. The indicator needle (white) moves from 0 to 10 when the customer operates the "switch" - On the body of the valve the installer has put a 180 degree blue to red plate to indicate where the valve should be for cool and hot but the valve spins through 360 degrees so i cannot tell where it should be without trial and error.
On the valve body there is a black plastic drive cog with a notch which i hoped would line up with something to help indicate the valve position. Sadly to remove the valve is a full dump of water as there are no service valves

 

[dancinplumba]

Wow, that is it. If you remove the screw at the centre of "handle" the whole mechanism comes off leaving just the valve body. Its just 2 port though and 2 inch pipes. As mentioned i did notice a blanked off port at the side of the valve body. The indicator needle (white) moves from 0 to 10 when the customer operates the "switch" - On the body of the valve the installer has put a 180 degree blue to red plate to indicate where the valve should be for cool and hot but the valve spins through 360 degrees so i cannot tell where it should be without trial and error.
On the valve body there is a black plastic drive cog with a notch which i hoped would line up with something to help indicate the valve position. Sadly to remove the valve is a full dump of water as there are no service valves

freeze it

 

[Last Plumber]

Wow, that is it. If you remove the screw at the centre of "handle" the whole mechanism comes off leaving just the valve body. Its just 2 port though and 2 inch pipes. As mentioned i did notice a blanked off port at the side of the valve body. The indicator needle (white) moves from 0 to 10 when the customer operates the "switch" - On the body of the valve the installer has put a 180 degree blue to red plate to indicate where the valve should be for cool and hot but the valve spins through 360 degrees so i cannot tell where it should be without trial and error.
On the valve body there is a black plastic drive cog with a notch which i hoped would line up with something to help indicate the valve position. Sadly to remove the valve is a full dump of water as there are no service valves

It's Obsolete and so is the valve probably.
If you cannot see the markings then the only way is to start from cold and turn it to see when it lets water through as you did.

If you need to replace it, let me know and I will dig out the info of the actuator and valve I used. The one in the photo was 2" from memory but bushed down to 1 1/4" connections. (Could be wrong on that, it was 6 month back).

Having said that, if you're replacing it and only need straight through open or closed, any motorised valve will do.

The one I removed did not have an aux switch as I remember so it didn't actually control anything on opening or closing.

 

[bacon_sandwich]

thx , appreciate it. Customer has been left instructions (bit optimistic i know) to monitor rads and if heat is still getting through to turn in one direction a tiny amount . Also was expecting to see a thermostat and controller but so far no joy, so yes a simple 2 inch open/shut valve would do the job.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

If it's been blanked off needs replacing as it's not right

 

[snowhead]

I'm used to seeing those Honeywell (formerly Belimo) actuators on ducted hot air system controlling air dampers, I've not seen them used on a valve.

The actuator has a 90 degree rotary motion.
I would suspect it lifts the valve (probably 20mm open to closed) not twists it.

What I am certain of is if you press the black button in, above the white dial, and twist the lever up (the dial will follow the movement) the valve will open or close depending on how it's set.
When you let go of the button the actuator will return to it's controlled position providing it's working and has power.

Also the slide switch on the left, if you loosen the philips screw slightly that should slide up.
That reverses the input and will move the valve, again if it's powered and working.
If it is 0 to 10v and 10v is open then the valve will shut.
The switch needs to go back in it's original position.

It may however be 240v ac and just open and close.

 

[bacon_sandwich]

Thats what i am worried about, did it ever work?, it must have been like that for 20 odd years. Would love to get the body off and have a look inside... not till good weather though.... lol

 

[bacon_sandwich]

I'm used to seeing those Honeywell (formerly Belimo) actuators on ducted hot air system controlling air dampers, I've not seen them used on a valve.

The actuator has a 90 degree rotary motion.
I would suspect it lifts the valve (probably 20mm open to closed) not twists it.

What I am certain of is if you press the black button in, above the white dial, and twist the lever up (the dial will follow the movement) the valve will open or close depending on how it's set.
When you let go of the button the actuator will return to it's controlled position providing it's working and has power.

Also the slide switch on the left, if you loosen the philips screw slightly that should slide up.
That reverses the input and will move the valve, again if it's powered and working.
If it is 0 to 10v and 10v is open then the valve will shut.
The switch needs to go back in it's original position.

It may however be 240v ac and just open and close.

I suspect you are right, i have tested the motor system and it is simply 0 when off and 10 when switch on. Its a rotary action and hopefully a ball valve as it spins through a full 360 when i operated the valve with the motorbox off the valve body.