Water Leak between meter and house?

[Rincewindwiz]

Hi All

I have had a problem with a leaking toilet (and consequently a horrendous water bill!) but that is now fixed. But still the water meter turns - very slowly - the last of 4 red digits increments once per minute. So I presume that is 1/1000 m3 per minute? (or 1.4m3 per day!) That is still a lot of water!

Even when I shut off the main inlet to the house, the water meter still turns at about that same rate

If I turn off the supply (next to the water meter) the digits stop turning.

So I presume this means a leak between the water meter and my main inlet. But there is no unusual sign of dampness anywhere around. (Water meter is outside the front of the house in some trees and the main inlet is round the back, a distance of about 40 feet.

How do I set about resolving this problem?

Thanks for any ideas?

 

[Ric2013]

Yeah. Seen them before . Cheap and nasty, probably came with a very budget toilet.

Normal for them to overflow while filling - that's what the tube from the fill valve to the top of the internal overflow upsatnd pipe is for. Instead of the dribble down the side of an equilibrium valve, the US market likes to run the dribble straight down the overflow for some I've never understood.

You probably won't find parts very easily but let me know if you do - I just replace these when they go wrong.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Yeah. Seen them before . Cheap and nasty, probably came with a very budget toilet.

Normal for them to overflow while filling - that's what the tube from the fill valve to the top of the internal overflow upsatnd pipe is for. Instead of the dribble down the side of an equilibrium valve, the US market likes to run the dribble straight down the overflow for some I've never understood.

You probably won't find parts very easily but let me know if you do - I just replace these when they go wrong.

its to refill the water/air gap which isnt needed on uk toilets

 

[Ric2013]

In the siphonic pans they use in the USA, or they have a trap between the cistern and pan in US?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

siphonic pans im sure of it

 

[Ric2013]

The ?silicone rubber seal on the outlet of that valve (I thought you had an actual flap valve) looks similar to the one fitted to the Wirquin Macdee 'Kayla' flush valve, which is also probably made in China and has UPC branding on the side. Try looking halfway up the white bit and I bet you'll find a UPC shield logo. May be the same size?

Ceramica is the brand of the ceramic bits, but most toilets don't have matching brand cistern components so you don't need to be that specific in your choice of replacement parts.

 

[Rincewindwiz]

Happy to replace but with what?
I'd prefer not to have to take all the bits out if I can get away with it

Logo: "Halfway up the white bit" under the lowest of the two slots is a logo. It has the letters ABS under a triangle with little arrows in the middle of each side

 

[Ric2013]

I just meant any make flush valve and fill valve would be fine, but on a close-coupled toilet like yours, you'd need to take the entire cistern off so may be a plumber job.

If you're wanting to just replace the rubber outlet seal underneath, then I don't mind checking the dimensions of that seal against those on a 'Kayla' valve for you? Thickness, outside diameter, and inside diameter of the washer please.

I think ABS is just telling you the type of plastic so it can be recycled.

 

[Rincewindwiz]

Yes: Reluctant to take cistern off!

ABS: Sounds likely

Dimensions of seal
Thickness 3mm
OS Diam 58.5mm
IS Diam of plastic clip that holds seal in place is 15.5mm
IS Diam (size of hole) of seal seems to be 16 mm (but probably 15.5!)

 

[Ric2013]

The Kayla seal is same ID, but edges only about 2.5mm thick (edges thicker than middle), and OD is greater. Pity about thickness, else you could have cut one down.

I do have a similar seal in reasonable condition 3mm thick all over, same ID but bigger OD. Again, could probably be cut down. I salvaged it out of a broken flush valve, but it's yours to try if you want to post me a S.A.E. ? PM me ('start a conversation') if so.

 

[Zippymark]

So have you worked out if this is definitely down to the flush valve yet or are you not sure until you rule this out?

I just wanted to add that i had a job with a similar scenario to what you first say, inside stopcock off and the water meter was still spinning. The meter was in the pavement and the stopcock just inside the house, proabably only 3/4 meters away and that was causing £600 water bills and was completely unnoticable from the front garden, it wasn't soggy at all, it must have made an underground river straight into a drain or something. The water supply company said it wasn't their responsibility, but ended up replacing it for free anyway, maybe they came to some sort of deal with the water bills. They said a tree root had cause the damage, which you mention you have near.

 

[Rincewindwiz]

Thanks

Pretty happy it was the flush valve. Check toilets for 'dribbles' in the bowl: no dribbles , water meter does not turn.

Now, if I can just find a way to ensure the button flush does not stay stuck down . . . . . .

Bit frightening the leak story though. Mine only cost about £150