Worcester Bosch - Flue relocation advice

[timstollery]

Please excuse any naivety first, appreciate I'm posting in a forum of plumbing experts, when I am just a mere home owner with a completely different skill set!

Just had some bad news dropped on us and would really appreciate some worldly gas safe advice!

Some bare facts...
We have a Worcester Bosch 28i Combi, it currently vents straight out of the back wall of the house, in the kitchen which is to the rear. Most of the terrace have the same/similar setup.

We are currently having a pitched roof extension built on to the rear of the property with 2 Velux windows in the roof and a large span of bi-fold doors at the rear, the extension extends out about 3 metres so it's not massive. The roof starts just below the 1st floor bedroom window. The extension spans the full width of the house.

The questions...
What options do I have to locate the Flue of the boiler, being that it is currently venting in to the new extension (the bifold doors are not yet installed and we still have the rear of our house intact), so it currently vents in to an empty shell with a roof on.

The Gas Safe advice I've had so far is to move the boiler up in to the bedroom directly above and vent out of the wall there, similar to where it was located in the kitchen.

Do I have any other options? I would be happy to provide some pictures and approximate measurements to better explain and illustrate the issue, if someone would be so kind to give me a few opinions.

Just trying to achieve the most cost effective solution with safety being the most paramount thing in my mind!

 

[ShaunCorbs]

pics would be ace and any plans/ sketch you have of the extension (where you boiler is now)

and do you know how old the boiler is

and really the boiler should be turned off if there is a structure around the flue, have you had any gas safe engs out ?

 

[Aquazone]

First off it's hard to completely picture the scenario but you need to move the boiler as it can't flue into a room once the extension is completed.

How has this not been sorted before the work even started? Where you move the boiler would depend on house layout, could maybe go in corner of extension in a cupboard? Or as you have said moved upstairs and flue out.

Get the advice of your local gas engineer and take it from there, as it's difficult without seeing it on site first hand. Either way your gonna have to move it

 

[timstollery]

I've selected a few pictures which best capture what I'm trying to explain...

Early on during the build process...

 

[timstollery]

Nearer to roof completion but better that you can see through the roof for options. Since these pictures the roof is now on and 2 Velux windows are now in (vent still on back wall of house)...

 

[ShaunCorbs]

boiler should be turned off NOW,

do not use the boiler

as the pics you have shown the flue is obstructed by breeze block

 

[timstollery]

First off it's hard to completely picture the scenario but you need to move the boiler as it can't flue into a room once the extension is completed.

How has this not been sorted before the work even started? Where you move the boiler would depend on house layout, could maybe go in corner of extension in a cupboard? Or as you have said moved upstairs and flue out.

Get the advice of your local gas engineer and take it from there, as it's difficult without seeing it on site first hand. Either way your gonna have to move it

Thank you for your advice. Appreciate that it should have been sorted well before the build started but long story short this is all a bit of a DIY SOS for my family and it has come together very piecemeal. I agree wholeheartedly that is hasn't been project managed properly. I don't want to inflame, just want some good solid advice to back up what I've pretty much already been told. Some second opinions if you like.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

and regarding the boiler re position/ new one fitted (depending on age etc) i see two to 3 options tbh

so a local gas safe eng should be fine

and if you would like you can post the job up in here

[DLMURL]http://www.ukplumbersforums.co.uk/im-looking-plumber-gas-engineer/[/DLMURL]

maybe one of our very good members is close to you and could provide you with a quote

 

[timstollery]

boiler should be turned off NOW,

do not use the boiler

as the pics you have shown the flue is obstructed by breeze block

The Gas Safe engineer came today to advise. He directed the flue in to the extension space (remember there are no bifold doors on yet, it is completely open to the rear and I have even left the Velux window open that is above the flue). The back of our house is still sealed as it always has been with back door and windows closed.

I have a fully working Carbon Monoxide alarm too! It's not reporting anything different (0 PPM on screen at all times).

 

[ShaunCorbs]

The Gas Safe engineer came today to advise. He directed the flue in to the extension space (remember there are no bifold doors on yet, it is completely open to the rear and I have even left the Velux window open that is above the flue). The back of our house is still sealed as it always has been with back door and windows closed.

I have a fully working Carbon Monoxide alarm too! It's not reporting anything different (0 PPM on screen at all times).

post a pic of what hes done please

 

[E4gas]

boiler should be turned off NOW,

do not use the boiler

as the pics you have shown the flue is obstructed by breeze block

Typical builder , always like to cover flues

 

[E4gas]

Can you move the boiler to the bedroom above ,

 

[timstollery]

post a pic of what hes done please

He just turned it so it is not pointing directly at the breeze block, it is venting in the direction of the open space which will ultimately be the extension. Haven't got any pics of it currently, I can put one up tomorrow but it is most certainly not a permanent solution!

He's said that I should have had boiler advice before and why didn't I contact him etc etc but I've been fielding so many things at the same time it was stupidly overlooked and to be fair I hoped the builder would advise, but that hasn't been the case, everything seems to have come up at the last minute!

I just wanted relocation or flue extension advice, we talked over options but I wanted to put it on here to see what others would suggest.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

He just turned it so it is not pointing directly at the breeze block, it is venting in the direction of the open space which will ultimately be the extension. Haven't got any pics of it currently, I can put one up tomorrow but it is most certainly not a permanent solution!

He's said that I should have had boiler advice before and why didn't I contact him etc etc but I've been fielding so many things at the same time it was stupidly overlooked and to be fair I hoped the builder would advise, but that hasn't been the case, everything seems to have come up at the last minute!

I just wanted relocation or flue extension advice, we talked over options but I wanted to put it on here to see what others would suggest.

i know what hes done, but still not right tbh, and do you know the model of the boiler ?

and did he have another option other than bedroom?

 

[timstollery]

Can you move the boiler to the bedroom above ,

Please don't flame, I didn't put this on to start a slanging match about who didn't do what when, it is what it is now and I'm simply asking for a little solid advice from you guys. Really appreciate you taking the time to even post a reply.

Yes we talked about putting it in the bedroom above, directly above the current location and venting straight out the back wall.

Can anyone tell me what the difference is with relocating the boiler compared to putting a periscope type long flue up that high (excuse my ignorance, you are probably laughing at me now)!!!

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Please don't flame, I didn't put this on to start a slanging match about who didn't do what when, it is what it is now and I'm simply asking for a little solid advice from you guys. Really appreciate you taking the time to even post a reply.

Yes we talked about putting it in the bedroom above, directly above the current location and venting straight out the back wall.

Can anyone tell me what the difference is with relocating the boiler compared to putting a periscope type long flue up that high (excuse my ignorance, you are probably laughing at me now)!!!

plume kit

and yes you cant do that as its still taking air for burning from inside the room

 

[timstollery]

i know what hes done, but still not right tbh, and do you know the model of the boiler ?

and did he have another option other than bedroom?

Model is in original post - WB 28i (Greenstar?) Combi
It's been running almost 4 years, regularly serviced, no problems.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Model is in original post - WB 28i (Greenstar?) Combi
It's been running almost 4 years, regularly serviced, no problems.

28i junior and should still be able to get flue parts

will post a pic up with some options

also can i ask if you have put the waste pipe back (where the white t is in the third pic?)

 

[ShaunCorbs]

depending on kitchen units (tight to old wall) should be able to go there fine but double check with your gas safe eng

as cant tell exact sizes

 

[timstollery]

28i junior and should still be able to get flue parts

will post a pic up with some options

also can i ask if you have put the waste pipe back (where the white t is in the third pic?)

If you are referring to the condensation waste I don't think that was what that grey pipe was doing, I have a feeling that it is plumbed in to the waste in the kitchen but I might be wrong. The waste that is currently on the back of the house is also temporary as the back wall will be coming out, most likely starting next week!

 

[Dotty]

The boiler will have to be moved. There's no other option.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

If you are referring to the condensation waste I don't think that was what that grey pipe was doing, I have a feeling that it is plumbed in to the waste in the kitchen but I might be wrong. The waste that is currently on the back of the house is also temporary as the back wall will be coming out, most likely starting next week!

boiler should be removed first tho before any other works starts

 

[timstollery]

View attachment 26030

depending on kitchen units (tight to old wall) should be able to go there fine but double check with your gas safe eng

This was the kind of thing I was thinking could be done...

 

[Dotty]

View attachment 26030

depending on kitchen units (tight to old wall) should be able to go there fine but double check with your gas safe eng

as cant tell exact sizes

Is that wall on the boundary?

 

[Dotty]

This was the kind of thing I was thinking could be done...

View attachment 26031

No. Most definitely not.

 

[snowhead]

How did they overcome building over the Inspection chamber on the right in picture in post 4?
Has it been relocated?
Was permission sought from the Local water company to build over what is probably a common drain (theirs not the house owners) running across the back of all the houses?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Is that wall on the boundary?

only matters when going through the wall doesnt it, and not through the roof?

 

[timstollery]

Is that wall on the boundary?

Yes my side walls are right on the boundary so I can't really vent out in to the neighbours garden, even though that's pretty much where their own flue is!

 

[Dotty]

only matters when going through the wall doesnt it, and not through the roof?

That was why I was wondering.

 

[timstollery]

How did they overcome building over the Inspection chamber on the right in picture in post 4?
Has it been relocated?
Was permission sought from the Local water company to build over what is probably a common drain (theirs not the house owners) running across the back of all the houses?

Yes full build over request granted from the local water company. Rodding eyes provided too!
Not really what this thread is about though to be fair, thanks for checking!

I just want to know if there are other options for venting the boiler up and through the roof. If possible not moving the boiler from the kitchen!

 

[Dotty]

I just want to know if there are other options for venting the boiler up and through the roof. If possible not moving the boiler from the kitchen!

There aren't any. It's a relocation.

 

[Geyser]

Off that boiler you've got different flue options. Can go up to 15m vertically i think with 125mm or about 10m horizontaly. You engineer can tell you.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

That was why I was wondering.

if i remember right if you go out the wall needs to be 600mm to the boundary and 300mm if you go through the roof

might just fit but would be close

the best option would be the bedroom if you could live with that op

 

[E4gas]

Bedroom is your best bet ,

 

[Riley]

We know you don't like the answer but safety is our paramount prerogative.

 

[Aquazone]

I know you have said safety is paramount but as myself, Croppie and others have said, moving the boiler is the only way. A plume kit, periscope or whatever you want to call it is a no go.

You need to post on the Looking for an engineer section or get your own GSR engineer out to advise further as us looking at pictures on this thread isn't going to get your boiler moved.

 

[timstollery]

I know you have said safety is paramount but as myself, Croppie and others have said, moving the boiler is the only way. A plume kit, periscope or whatever you want to call it is a no go.

You need to post on the Looking for an engineer section or get your own GSR engineer out to advise further as us looking at pictures on this thread isn't going to get your boiler moved.

I'm absolutely with you all. Not looking for a shortcut, safety is paramount and moving it will be what it is, straight up in to as tidy a position as it can go within the bedroom directly above, venting straight out the back wall at that height. It is ultimately going to become the guest bedroom anyway!

I really appreciate all of your opinions and solid advice. Thank you.

Now I need to stop the builder until the boiler is moved!

In the meantime, it's off and the Carbon Monixide alarm tested. I've also ordered another two CM alarms for the bedrooms, this evening, as fail safe! They get delivered tomorrow. You got me worried.

 

[Dotty]

Thank you Tim, we know it's really not the advice you wanted to hear, but it is the best way to go. And most importantly, the safest.