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Y Plan System Wiring

View the thread, titled "Y Plan System Wiring" which is posted in UK Plumbers Forums on UK Plumbers Forums.

A

apple-plumbing

I have just booked myself on a Honeywell Wiring Course for £30 but need some help diagnosing a customer issue where Port A+B are open on a Honeywell 3 Port Mid Position Valve when there is a demand for either HW or CH or both. Is the valve stuck (looks pretty old) or is it a wiring issue. The customer has added a Wireless Room Stat & Receiver to the equation too

I tested for 'live' in the Valve's White, Grey & Orange terminals when I artifically created a demand with the following results:

No demand for HW or CH
7 - Grey

Demand for CH
4 - White
7 - Grey
8 - Orange

Demand for HW
4 - White
8 - Orange

Demand for CH & HW
4 - White
7 - Grey
8 - Orange
 
The Y plan! Bane of the plumbers life. Easy to fit, hard to diagnose.

If you want to lean anything about wiring systems FORGET the numbers and learn what switches what. Most systems are not wiring by numbers. You will open a box to find a pile of 3 cores wired through loose terminal block.
When testing a Y plan, the voltages you get to which wire will depend on the last position the valve was in but i'll start at the beginning.

Valve in it's resting position (HW)
Turn programmer on for HW only and you should have 240 on the orange wire but the valve is doing nothing and the boiler is being fed through the cylinder stat
Turn on HW and CH and 240 will be applied to the white (also the orange but this is doing nothing) but the power to the white will advance the valve to mid position.

It is too late to go through all this so try to figure it out yourself, pass the job to a spark or hopefully you will remember what they teach you on your course
 
I have just booked myself on a Honeywell Wiring Course for £30 but need some help diagnosing a customer issue where Port A+B are open on a Honeywell 3 Port Mid Position Valve when there is a demand for either HW or CH or both. Is the valve stuck (looks pretty old) or is it a wiring issue. The customer has added a Wireless Room Stat & Receiver to the equation too

I tested for 'live' in the Valve's White, Grey & Orange terminals when I artifically created a demand with the following results:

No demand for HW or CH
7 - Grey

Demand for CH
4 - White
7 - Grey
8 - Orange

Demand for HW
4 - White
8 - Orange

Demand for CH & HW
4 - White
7 - Grey
8 - Orange



grey shouldnt be live on demand for both
 
as said gray is hot water satisfied or hot water off from programmer,so should not be in your ''demand for ch & hw list

Agree with tamz,learn what wire is from what and does what

imho
 
Searching the other threads have found a couple of links that are very helpful, one with interactive diagrams and the other access to some downloads from the Honeywell website (you will need to register as a member to access downloads):

Honeywell Y-Plan Explanation + Honeywell United Kingdom Heating Controls

Will also post this image too for reference:

Grey_White_Orange.jpg

Y Plan Wiring Diagram:

hw_only.jpg

And I've also found the explanation below:

How the mid-position valve works

Port A = CH
Port B = HW
Port A+B (Mid-Position) = CH + HW

When the valve has no power applied, it's in the "rest" position with Port B (HW) open. In this situation power is applied via the Programmer HW ON, HW thermostat Common and Call terminals to the Boiler

If CH is required at the same time as HW, voltage is applied to the WHITE wire and the Valve motor runs via S1. When the Valve reaches Mid-Position, switch S1 moves over. The motor is now fed via S2, Resistor R1 and Diode D. The Diode rectifies the AC current so it becomes 'half wave'. The effect of this is to "stall" the motor in Mid-Position

Resistor R1 limits the current through the motor and consequently the residual magnetism. This ensures that, when CH goes off and 240v is no longer applied to the WHITE wire, the spring in the Valve is able to return the Valve to its original (Port B open - HW Only) position. The Boiler is still supplied via the HW thermostat as in the HW only position. The motor is also supplied via the ORANGE wire and Resistor R2 with a lower AC Voltage, this also prevents the motor becoming permanently magnetized and ensures the spring return will work

If HW is now satisfied or turned off, 240v is applied to the GREY wire, via either the programmer HW OFF or HW stat SAT terminal. This applies 240v to the motor via switch S1. This is sufficient to move the motor from Mid-Position to fully across (Port A - CH only) open. The Boiler is no longer supplied via HW ON and CALL terminals but, as the Valve reaches the end of its travel, switch S2 moves over. 240v is now applied via the WHITE wire, S2 and the ORANGE wire to the boiler

If CH is now satisfied, or turned off, the WHITE wire no longer carries 240v, so the Boiler goes off. The GREY wire, however still carries 240v, so the motor is held in the Port A position (CH Only). Switches S1 and S2 both remain in the "switched over" position. In this situation Resistor R2 now performs a second task, it reduces the voltage applied to the Boiler via the GREY wire to between 50-150V. This is lower than the Gas Valve or CH Pump requires to operate, so the Boiler does not light. The Valve will stay in the CH position until either HW is called or the power is turned off
 
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To test the Valve functions correctly in HW only mode, I'm planning on removing the WHITE wire from the Wiring Centre. A demand for HW only should just mean heated water leaving the Valve on route to the HWSC via Port B, without the CH coming on through Port A and heating the property, which is what the customer is complaining of. If ports A + B remain open like they've done, I'll change the Valve

I'm also going to check the Voltage on the ORANGE wire and then try to work out how/why the WHITE wire is being energised in this state

From the wiring tests I've done, what I've read online and the posts above, the GREY is HW Off from the Programmer or HWSC Stat when energised, which is an issue in this scenario, when there is a demand for CH + HW the GREY wire is live
 
Last edited by a moderator:
To test the Valve functions correctly in HW only mode, I'm planning on removing the WHITE wire from the Wiring Centre. A demand for HW only should just mean heated water leaving the Valve on route to the HWSC via Port B, without the CH coming on through Port A and heating the property, which is what the customer is complaining of. If ports A + B remain open like they've done, I'll change the Valve

I'm also going to check the Voltage on the ORANGE wire and then try to work out how/why the WHITE wire is being energised in this state

From the wiring tests I've done, what I've read online and the posts above, the GREY is HW Off from the Programmer or HWSC Stat when energised, which is an issue in this scenario, when there is a demand for CH + HW the GREY wire is live

prob an issue with the 3 port making it live when it shouldnt, please let us know if you sorted it
 
Slightly off topic ... last Friday I wired up my first S-Plan and finished at 6:30pm. Hot water worked fine but no heating. Stopped work and returned yesterday.

Turned up the room stat ...
 
lol, i have done similar, hw but no heating on a combi, i hadnt connected the return!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
 
Finally returned to customer today - removed the WHITE wire from the Wiring Centre and it remained 'live'. I thinks Fuzzy is right, the Valve is energising it when it shouldn't. I've ordered a new Honeywell 22mm 3 Port Mid-Position (V4073A1039) to fit next week - I'll keep you posted
 
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