Cold radiators in loft

[milleniumaire]

Well done so far, it gets easier with practice, look on the bright side, at least the sludge is black...brown sludge is very naughty.

I'm intrigued. What is brown sludge?

 

[milleniumaire]

One radiator and associated pipes have now been cleaned out and reconnected to the CH system and it is working perfectly.

Just the towel rail and another radiator to go.....

 

[centralheatking]

I'm intrigued. What is brown sludge?

Oh sorry I missed this, my understanding is thus
1. Black Ferric Sludge occurs with a sealed system inc. an open vented system and needs to be dealt with.
2. Brown Ferric Sludge indicates that the system is continually introducing fresh water with air dissolved into it, maybe eg an open vented system is pumping over.
I tested this towards the end of my last house which I sold for demolition...I had an Eclipse MicroMag industrial filter on it when we deliberately left an mt cock slightly open the ch water turned from black to brown when we took the micromag out of circuit.
To explain my main workshop in that house had the boiler located there so we used to use it as a test vehicle for all sorts of things.
centralheatking

 

[milleniumaire]

2. Brown Ferric Sludge indicates that the system is continually introducing fresh water with air dissolved into it, maybe eg an open vented system is pumping over.

I did Google Brown sludge but only found references to car radiators.

As my system is sealed hopefully brown sludge won't be a problem, but I am alarmed at the amount of black sludge I have come across in the loft pipes and radiators, which is strange as the magnaclean never seems to get very clogged up. I need to check it again now that I've re-introduced one of the loft radiators.

 

[centralheatking]

I did Google Brown sludge but only found references to car radiators.

As my system is sealed hopefully brown sludge won't be a problem, but I am alarmed at the amount of black sludge I have come across in the loft pipes and radiators, which is strange as the magnaclean never seems to get very clogged up. I need to check it again now that I've re-introduced one of the loft radiators.

You are quite correct water cooled motor vehicles do suffer badly, we did look at automotive with Honeywell but there was no commercial traction so we both walked away It is not for me to criticise
any domestic magnetic and strainer type ch filters. Its been at least a decade when I designed some..domestic mag filters .not Magnaclean. You might go along your naughty radiators and visible pipes with a magnet and a soft rubber mallet...thats quite good
there is an adgitator tool which you can put on a domestic electric drill that was origionally my idea I dont know what they call it ...But I got paid for it as usual...nice holiday.
Chemicals will only maintain the status quo not remove the stuff ...a really good reverse pump out first is good...this should take two men all one day.
centralheatking

 

[milleniumaire]

...a really good reverse pump out first is good...this should take two men all one day.
centralheatking

Is this different to a power flush?

 

[centralheatking]

Is this different to a power flush?

Well a proper power flush ought to incorporate reverse flush in my opinion...the trouble is a proper one really does cost hence naughty boys under quote or even quote but do not do it properly. If it was my gaff...I would take the day off and check it all...others on PF will explain what to watch for .....centralheatking

 

[milleniumaire]

I spent the weekend working on the towel rail in the loft. Removed the towel rail and the valves leaving only the copper tails, to which I attached my hosepipes. The other end of the supply/return pipe was connected together using a speedfit flexible hose. So, I have a loop and I pushed in mains pressure water to one radiator tail and the other tail had a hose with the end in a bucket.
No matter what I did, I couldn't get any water through this setup. Actually, there is a very tiny slither of water coming through, but barely anything.

I tried reversing the hose pipe connections and I tried isolating only one of the pipes (to shorten the length being cleaned i.e. hose pipes on both ends of a single pipe) but still no water came through. These pipes are well and truly blocked!

Last night I put some Sentinel X800 into both pipes in the hope this might loosen up the sludge and I will try flushing through again tonight.

I know Sentinel X800 is used for cleaning systems, but I'm not sure it will "dissolve" the hardened sludge in these pipes enough to move it. Can anyone recommend a better chemical? Would Fernox DS40 be better (it's certainly a lot more expensive).

I'm close to the point of giving up and accepting these two pipes will need to be replaced, but that then makes the job a whole lot more complicated due to access!

Any ideas would be welcome.

 

[centralheatking]

I spent the weekend working on the towel rail in the loft. Removed the towel rail and the valves leaving only the copper tails, to which I attached my hosepipes. The other end of the supply/return pipe was connected together using a speedfit flexible hose. So, I have a loop and I pushed in mains pressure water to one radiator tail and the other tail had a hose with the end in a bucket.
No matter what I did, I couldn't get any water through this setup. Actually, there is a very tiny slither of water coming through, but barely anything.

I tried reversing the hose pipe connections and I tried isolating only one of the pipes (to shorten the length being cleaned i.e. hose pipes on both ends of a single pipe) but still no water came through. These pipes are well and truly blocked!

Last night I put some Sentinel X800 into both pipes in the hope this might loosen up the sludge and I will try flushing through again tonight.

I know Sentinel X800 is used for cleaning systems, but I'm not sure it will "dissolve" the hardened sludge in these pipes enough to move it. Can anyone recommend a better chemical? Would Fernox DS40 be better (it's certainly a lot more expensive).

I'm close to the point of giving up and accepting these two pipes will need to be replaced, but that then makes the job a whole lot more complicated due to access!

Any ideas would be welcome.

Try finding a drain off at the lowest point possible in the whole building put a hose on it with a jubilee clip run to the outside. Then re visit your loft connect mains pressure to one tail.....blank off the other....first thing will be the rads will glug glug but dont touch them yet.
Then give it a gentle blast of mains ..to check connections..when sound open it up you really should get plenty from the drain off hose. usually black stuff. are you sure up in the loft you are on mains ..not tank fed low head pressure. ask away we are here to help
centralheatking

 

[milleniumaire]

Hi, thanks for posting.

Just to clarify, the towel rail and its piping in the loft have been isolated from the central heating system, which is operating as normal.

So, I have a couple of hep20 pipes in the loft which connect to the tails of the towel rail and the other end of these pipes do not connect to anything. I am therefore able to so push mains water through these pipes in isolation of the CH system. Despite doing this, I'm unable to get mains pressure water to pass through either pipe due to the extent of blockage.

As I say, I've tried using X800, which may loosen up the blockage, but I won't know until tonight. I'm trying to determine if there is a better chemical to use in case X800 doesn't work.

Thanks.