Flue terminal positions close to windows - changed?

[Marco]

Hi
We all know terminal must be 300mm from an opening window - but am I dreaming or has the rule changed now for distance from non opening windows? Seem to remember seeing somewhere that it now based on distance from a change in structure eg from edge of where brick changes to window frame?

Mi's only showing 300mm from opening window. Had a look on GSR at TB's but can't see anything.

Just pricing up a combi swop, terminal currently 200mm from non opening window, BG has told customer it is too close. So not sure if will need a plume management kit?

cheers

Mark

 

[lame plumber]

while back a gsr was done for installing a boiler next to a non opening window. Owner then changed it to opening! guess who was prosecuted and it wasnt the owner.

 

[hammers4spanner]

wasn't that down in newquay??
I remember hearing about that how a gsr engineer screwed window shut and put sealant round it and got appropriate paper work done to state about window . Then few years later property sold and new owner made closed window openable only for place to be loaded up with poc's. gsr engineer prosecuted and sent to prison

 

[tamz]

Use a plume kit

 

[lame plumber]

wasn't that down in newquay??
I remember hearing about that how a gsr engineer screwed window shut and put sealant round it and got appropriate paper work done to state about window . Then few years later property sold and new owner made closed window openable only for place to be loaded up with poc's. gsr engineer prosecuted and sent to prison

thats the one, I thought they were a bit harsh on the techies but the papers dont always tell the whole story only the gory and best bits.

 

[Mike Jackson]

It's all down to the MIs but if the MIs state a distance from a non opening window it must not be an opening window that has been sealed shut.

 

[Blake]

Use a plume kit

I thought a plume kit was merely to divert possible nuisance plumage and not to be used as a way of getting around regs/distances etc?

 

[Barry98]

I thought a plume kit was merely to divert possible nuisance plumage and not to be used as a way of getting around regs/distances etc?

depends how you read it

 

[Nostrum]

No you can use it for gaining distance from windows etc, thats why most state a min of 150mm from air intake to windows etc if using a plume kit

 

[lame plumber]

I thought a plume kit was merely to divert possible nuisance plumage and not to be used as a way of getting around regs/distances etc?

tend to agree with you on plume kit use, what if the customer sells up and the new one doesnt like his periscope or the local youth remove it and it next to an openable window, who is to blame when granny gets gassed, it will be the installer who writes their name on the benchmark paperwork!

 

[tamz]

tend to agree with you on plume kit use, what if the customer sells up and the new one doent like his periscope or the local youth remove it and it next to an openable window, who is to blame when granny gets gassed, it will be the installer who writes their name on the benchmark paperwork!

What if next time you service a boiler and the customer likes what he sees inside. A more rugged engineered look and likes to see the nice blue flames so takes the covers off it just as he watched you do 30 minutes before.
Put things in perspective.
Life is full of what ifs.

 

[Mike Jackson]

Best stop fitting boilers then. What happens if your customers sells up and the new owner decides to build a conservatory over the flue, cut an opening in next to the flue etc. As long as an appliance is installed to the MIs or regulations you will be covered. You have no control over what someone does after you have left the premises.

 

[Reg Man]

Have a look in Building Regulations Part J Table 34 note 1. It says a 150mm for FF boilers on non opening window frames.

 

[tamz]

The reason for which (from a building point of view) is the lintel is bearing on that 6" of brickwork.

 

[Nostrum]

Makes perfect sense but didn't see the connection before so a thank you to tamz

 

[lame plumber]

What if next time you service a boiler and the customer likes what he sees inside. A more rugged engineered look and likes to see the nice blue flames so takes the covers off it just as he watched you do 30 minutes before.
Put things in perspective.
Life is full of what ifs.

Bit off the mark here as the guy in Newquay from what I read in the local rags had seen a vent window had been screwed down and hinges removed, ie turned into a fixed window which was then reassembled by a new owner and left as an open vent, and problems then occurred. All I was saying, if you install something that cant ever be changed easily then you cant go wrong, ie dont rely on a semi permanent fix to solve a problem of flue position.

I know the scots like to get every bit of heat they can for their money, so I can only assume they are daft enough to go for the rugged engineered look!

 

[Mike Jackson]

I'm sorry I didn't realise that Lame plumbers advice over ruled the Manufacturers instructions. I shall go round and reroute all of the flues that I have fitted with Plume kits following the manufacturers instructions. Do you think I can claim the expense back from the manufacturer as it was their instructions that caused me to disregard lame plumbers advice?

 

[neily01]

The reason for which (from a building point of view) is the lintel is bearing on that 6" of brickwork.

Like tamz says 150mm from window but this is for structual reasons. Plume kits a bit of a funny area they will allow in certain instances to reduce flueing distances but it is really a method of redirecting nuisance pluming.

 

[AWheating]

any window fitter, builder, home owner that fits a new window or vent or creates an opening that changes the clearences on an appliances flue must work to the gas/building regs. If they dont know the requirements thats not a excuse in the eyes of the law.

 

[hammers4spanner]

Best stop fitting boilers then. What happens if your customers sells up and the new owner decides to build a conservatory over the flue, cut an opening in next to the flue etc. As long as an appliance is installed to the MIs or regulations you will be covered. You have no control over what someone does after you have left the premises.

You say that about a flue in the conservatory but i actually went for a boiler service where they sked me if its ok to build a conservatory where the flue would actually be terminating in the conservatory!!!

Actually asked if he was serious and his reply was well i thought it wouldnt matter as we would only use it in hte summer and the boiler would mainly be used in the winter lol


some people

 

[lame plumber]

I'm sorry I didn't realise that Lame plumbers advice over ruled the Manufacturers instructions. I shall go round and reroute all of the flues that I have fitted with Plume kits following the manufacturers instructions. Do you think I can claim the expense back from the manufacturer as it was their instructions that caused me to disregard lame plumbers advice?

bit a a lame comment and its only an opinion I have, in order to cover my as in the future, but for all of you out there who want a definative answer heres one fm wb Greenstar 24i junior Plume management terminal positioning - Worcester, Bosch Group UK installer site trying to be helpful as ever rather than sarcastic

 

[AlexGas]

Put the kit in, it won't brake the bank and you will sleep much better!

 

[Reg Man]

I was led to believe plume management kits were not an excuse for incorrect terminal positions, but to reduce nuisance from plumming?

 

[vern]

I was led to believe plume management kits were not an excuse for incorrect terminal positions, but to reduce nuisance from plumming?

WB Mi's allow 150 mm with plume kit, had gasafe inspection on this very issue, I pointed to Mi's passed him to WB tech line, who backed me to the hilt......he backed down!

What if?....what if? A customer slackens a gas test point, removes a flue sampling point and accuses you after service / installation etc, to get his bill written off or reduced? Seen it all...... follow MI's do everything else right inc PAPERWORK and any sane judge will back you end of! By the way speaking from experience in previous management roles, not Internet hearsay!

 

[dancinplumba]

will have to start taking pics with date for everything we do

 

[vern]

will have to start taking pics with date for everything we do

Steve I would'nt bother, our jobs hard enough as it is! Just do what you do without complacency and you will be fine pal!

 

[lame plumber]

I've yet to meet a sane judge, some of the rulings they come out with beggar belief, you cant trust the uk law to back you up, take a look at the poor sgt jailed for having a pistol in his belongings, he didnt pack it in a box to be sent to him in the uk, it was never unpacked and he cops 18 months before appeal, and thats from one of our sane judges!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[lame plumber]

WB Mi's allow 150 mm with plume kit, had gasafe inspection on this very issue, I pointed to Mi's passed him to WB tech line, who backed me to the hilt......he backed down!

What if?....what if? A customer slackens a gas test point, removes a flue sampling point and accuses you after service / installation etc, to get his bill written off or reduced? Seen it all...... follow MI's do everything else right inc PAPERWORK and any sane judge will back you end of! By the way speaking from experience in previous management roles, not Internet hearsay!

just saw all your what ifs, isnt that what risk assessment is, taking all the what ifs and devising a plan to eliminate risk, just what managers do all the time, especially in todays litigatious environment

 

[Reg Man]

WB Mi's allow 150 mm with plume kit, had gasafe inspection on this very issue, I pointed to Mi's passed him to WB tech line, who backed me to the hilt......he backed down!

What if?....what if? A customer slackens a gas test point, removes a flue sampling point and accuses you after service / installation etc, to get his bill written off or reduced? Seen it all...... follow MI's do everything else right inc PAPERWORK and any sane judge will back you end of! By the way speaking from experience in previous management roles, not Internet hearsay!

Of course the MI should be consulted and followed, they come above every thing. but the state about plume mangement kits is sound.

 

[leethegasman]

I install WB plume kits when flue is within 300mm of window and if you think of it a plume kit is to help get rid of nuisance pluming and i would say 300mm from a window in most cases would be a nuisance so can not see a problem if you are a installer who is not going take advantage of the MI then the only other way is to move boiler position or re route flue or brick up window which would poss cost more than a plume kit new to the gas safe forum hello to you all.

 

[Marco]

Thanks for all the replies guys. The window is an frosted glass window to under stairs cupborad (big enough compartment for boiler before we get into that one!). But nusance plumage for once less of an issue. I'd seen the WB MI's as its a 30Si going to be installed, so I'm definatly aware you can use the pluime management kits to get round outlet issues for their boilers - not sure on other MI's as mainly fit WB. I think will base price on using Plume kit to be on safe side. Also BG have stated flue near window is an issue, so might look bad if I don't. Not that I try to follow everything that BG would do!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[AlexGas]

The plume management kit had to be installed at this address. It works a treat!

 

[GrahamM]

It is all down to the specific manufacturer regarding plume kits.
Worcester allow you the flexibility of fitting a flue 150mm from a window/door opening as long as the plume kit outlet is at least 300mm from the opening.
Plume kits are not just to lessen the nuisance factor.
You are still not permitted to have a flue terminating in an enclosed space with the outlet terminating above.

 

[lame plumber]

there will now be a discussion on the above sub topic for a couple of days:stuart: