Hidden Floor Fixing on Tavistock Ion WC Pan - Plumbers says it cannot be used.

[Geoff_]

A plumber has installed a Tavistock Ion open backed closed coupled WC in my bathroom. This is part of a full bathroom refurbishment so the plumber has installed the above floor soil pipe from the soil stack. The plumber has also routed pipes below the suspended weyroc floor. There is no electric underfloor heating.

The plumber has not used the proprietary hidden mechanical floor fixing kit because he claims the WC cannot be installed with the floor fixing included. The pan has been 'fixed' with silicone sealant.

My common sense view is that Tavistock would not offer the floor fixing system if it was impractical to adopt.

Is this a common problem or has the plumber failed to tackle the installation appropriately?

 

[AWheating]

Unless the design of the pan does not allow it it should be straight forward to use the fixing kit.

 

[jonnyswamp]

Unless you have underfloor heating either wet or electric, I'd say the plumber didn't fancy drilling those porcelain tiles
Is the pan loose or solid

 

[Geoff_]

There is some movement. To make matters worse the boxing is slightly oversize so the cistern is not snug to the wall. This reduces the overall rigidity.

The plumber said that he could not use the floor fixing blocks because he could not lift the pan over the blocks. This implies to me that he did not want to engage the pan outlet to the soil pipe after the boxing & tiling.

 

[Geoff_]

The plumber has offered to remove the Tavistock Ion WC and replace it with a Vitra S20 close-coupled open backed WC. This is a fair offer to resolve the issue but should I be worried about differing whites between the Vitra WC and the Tavistock wash basin? The recommendation from the installer prior to work was not to mix sanitary ware from different manufacturers.

 

[PriestyUK]

Sounds abit of a bodger to me to even contemplate just siliconing the pan down

 

[rpm]

Could of been worse, could of been cement! lol

 

[rpm]

Sounds abit of a bodger to me to even contemplate just siliconing the pan down

Reckon 6 out of 10 are done that way that I see every week and few cause problems as long as the cistern is screwed to the wall. Agree it is the easy way out though.

 

[SimonG]

Did the plumber do the tiling and boxing?

From your posts it sounds as though he didnt. If he didnt then he is getting the brown end of the stick.

The boxing should have been done after the wc was installed. Would have been a doddle to use the floor brackets then.

 

[Unregistered]

The plumber did the boxing in preparation for the tiler who works for the same bathroom installer.

 

[SimonG]

Well he deserves the brown end of the stick then. Get them to do the job properly.

The reason it doesnt sit back to the wall is probably because he didnt allow for the thickness of tiles on the boxing.

 

[Destroyer2813]

My guess would be there is no slot at the bottom of the pan to slide the pan back over the brackets so it has to be lifted over the brackets but probably couldn't do that and line it up into the pan con at the same time

 

[Geoff_]

Why would Tavistock adopt a fixing system on an open backed close-coupled WC that cannot be used in situations that require an open-backed close-coupled WC?

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

are the floor tiles porcelain? if so they are very difficult to drill,if the cisterns fixed to the wall,that pan is not going anywhere,dont worry about it

 

[rpm]

My guess would be there is no slot at the bottom of the pan to slide the pan back over the brackets so it has to be lifted over the brackets but probably couldn't do that and line it up into the pan con at the same time

This causes me no end of grief when trying to connect the pan spigot to the macerator rubber connecter and can lead me to fit a short McAlpine.

 

[solutions]

Why would Tavistock adopt a fixing system on an open backed close-coupled WC that cannot be used in situations that require an open-backed close-coupled WC?

Because most manufacturers give little real thought to how easy or well there products can be installed just how much more they can make by changing this that or the other and what will they have to do to make it attractive enough to convince you to part with your money.
It is very rare that I come across much in the way of sanitary ware that is well designed, well manufactured and reasonably priced.
However you clearly are not happy.
You are the customer, if you want it fixed properly then state that to the fitter and ask why it has not been fixed as you would expect.
It is not uncommon in some circumstances for a pan to be silliconed to the floor and I don't necessarily consider it a bodge job.
Plenty of the semi concealed fixing brackets do little to properly secure a toilet pan. The cistern should be secured to the wall but should not be fixed in such a way as to stress the joint where pan and cistern are coupled so if floor and wall are not square then the cistern may need to be packed off the wall before fixing.

 

[Geoff_]

The floor tiles are not porcelain. They are red clay backed tiles produced by Baldocer SA, 9.4mm thickness.

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

The floor tiles are not porcelain. They are red clay backed tiles produced by Baldocer SA, 9.4mm thickness.

is the toilet stable and not moving?

 

[Unregistered]

There is some movement. The cistern is not snug against the wall (because the boxing is oversized) which contributes to a lack of rigidy/stiffness.

 

[rpm]

Because most manufacturers give little real thought to how easy or well there products can be installed just how much more they can make by changing this that or the other and what will they have to do to make it attractive enough to convince you to part with your money.
It is very rare that I come across much in the way of sanitary ware that is well designed, well manufactured and reasonably priced. .

As with most things nowadays, designed by someone on a computer who has never spent a day of his life outside in the real world.

 

[lame plumber]

as said above, all these lovely to look at bits of porcelain are designed without a real thought as to how to fix them and much less how to repair them when they leak at the soil pipe junction down the line. Personally I wouldnt have one in my home, but for those that do, you cant always lift them up and over the supplied fittings at the same time as you need to push the wc onto the soil connector. hence the need to use silicone in some cases.

 

[Best]

Silicone sticks a toilet pan solid to a tiled floor provided the tiles are clean.
It also makes it more hygienic to seal the pan down.
Brackets do very little IMO to hold a pan in position and IMO it is a bodge job to NOT also use silicone.
A large pan like that one in the photo is virtually free standing and only needs a little bead of clear silicone around the base edge.
I wouldn't want to try removing a pan that is siliconed to a tiled floor!
I must confess I have came upon the same problem when fitting a toilet to a rear connection and I have carefully marked the position the brackets will be on the tiled floor. Then I fitted the brackets to the pan and put a blob of Tec7 on the bracket positions and slid the pan in place. Tec7 is as good as any fixing for that job! :smile:

 

[Neil K]

Silicone sticks a toilet pan solid to a tiled floor provided the tiles are clean.
It also makes it more hygienic to seal the pan down.
Brackets do very little IMO to hold a pan in position and IMO it is a bodge job to NOT also use silicone.
A large pan like that one in the photo is virtually free standing and only needs a little bead of clear silicone around the base edge.
I wouldn't want to try removing a pan that is siliconed to a tiled floor!
I must confess I have came upon the same problem when fitting a toilet to a rear connection and I have carefully marked the position the brackets will be on the tiled floor. Then I fitted the brackets to the pan and put a blob of Tec7 on the bracket positions and slid the pan in place. Tec7 is as good as any fixing for that job! :smile:

That Tec7 is great tac Best. Got me out of many a hole lol