Just taken an apprentice but I'm worried I'm scaring the wot sits out of him

[cookey]

Ive just taken an apprentice for the first time on a couple of weeks trial. He's only 16 and has done his first 6 weeks at Guildford college. He has shown me his lovely pictures of bending and soldering but I'm afraid my daily routine is way over what he has been taught. I've been constantly asking him bs questions just simple stuff. Are there any college instructors out there who can point me in the right direction as to what I'm supposed to be asking. He's now changed a pcb on a Baxi back boiler but I don't think he knows why and also a sensing rod on a similar Baxi unit, again he has no idea why he changed it he just done as he was told after I completed fault finding. Do I go through 6700 as a start point or do I just hand him a copy of water regs and corgi/viper and tell him "read"? Softly softly or get on with it you little bugger? I'm quite a patient chap but am I pushing too far too early? He's a good lad and he's keen but do I get him do do gas rate calcs now or wait till he done it in college?

 

[cookey]

In essence where or how do I start? Sorry to burden you all with this!!!!!

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

well you need to explain to him why he is changing components if he is keen the rest will follow if he has a interest he will want to know the ins and outs,however he could also turn into a muppet if this happens try throwing things at him until he improves if this fails show him the door

 

[cookey]

Sure I've already called a couple of regs at him. Generally I've told him if he doesn't know then get back to me the next day. Perhaps in the morning I'll make sure he has a notebook and pen. A good place to start perhaps. At least if I see him writing things down and asking questions it might be a mark of the young man?

 

[tamz]

You should not be the one asking questions at this stage, he should. His stint in college was basic introductory stuff. He still knows nothing so you have to teach and guide him.
Take it easy for a while, keep the BS books away from him until he understands what he is doing and why.
Explain what things do, sequence of operations, what you are doing and why, the things you are looking for etc. Question him on things you have shown him to see if he is taking it in and urge him to tell you what he thinks and why. After he gets it in his head a bit let him start on some easy ones and guide him.
An apprenticeship is a slow learning process building up confidence and experience.

 

[cookey]

Ok good advice. We changed a 2 port valve the other day. An explanation of what the valve does and why was given so he takes it all in. Thanks

 

[tamz]

It will be weeks or months before he takes it in fully and understands. Just think what your head was full of at 16. I bet it wasn't motorised valves and BS books.

 

[SimonJohns]

Best thing I done as an apprentice was have all the broken fittings an parts and dismantled them til I found what was at fault.

For eg. Let him strip a pump and see the impeller
Tap with spindle orifice shaft etc

 

[cookey]

****, fannies, escort Mexico and Capri 2.8i's, fizzles and madonna.

 

[cookey]

Good idea

 

[REDSAW]

i would start him at the bottom before he gets too big for his boots.

can he make tea and sweep up?.

 

[marleyco]

I agree with most of the above. My opinion, push him but not too hard. start with the basics, its what he will be used to and have learned, get him confident with it. Motorized valves, pumps and other controls are for another day. Make sure he understands the system's and why each component is there though. I'd also give him some gentle homework to keep him on his toes. One I gave was, draw a tank, hot tank and boiler, then make him draw the pipe's and valves etc. He can then use his books etc, then you can quiz him on it.

 

[cookey]

Cheers lads. Bed time got work in the morning I'm hoping he can use a power flusher ( after instruction ) tomorrow. He then got trvs and a boiler on Thursday. I'll explain boiler sizing calc before I let him loose. Well come on I've got to keeps my routine and wages coming in!:59:

 

[GerrythePlumber]

I remember being sent out behind the the Plumbers shed where there were old baths whb's oil boilers and the rest. I had to take off everything that was made of anything non-ferrous.
I learnt how to get things off that were stuck.
Give him an old pump with the valves on, that kind of thing.
My big concern about the kids is that they don't seem to act on their own. Simple things like, tidying up have got to be done.
If your work is repetative, give him roles to perform on every job. Then gradually increase his resposibility.

 

[WHPES]

Remember something you've been doing for years and can do with your eyes shut may be all new to the uninitiated. Don't try and push too much at once. For someone new to the trade it can be a lot to take in.

One of my colleagues used to say about apprentices - pretend you're trying to teach the missus how to do plumbing.

 

[ADM360]

Just as a side note, I started for an old boy before I went on to collage for plumbing, (he needed a driver and I needed to get out of where I was!!) I have always been very hands on, as a boy I was always follwing any builder round and asking whats that for/ do!! and after 6 weeks by his side i was allowed to fit compresion fitting under his watchful eye!! that was 10 years ago and I'm now up for acs renewall, so do be to hard on your lad as it's takes time to get up to speed, 6 weeks at collage could have been spent bringing the less able up to speed!! when I started my city and guilds there where some on my course that had to do make up maths to get up to speed. so you need to bear in mind that the collage works to the speed of the slowest!!!! If he wants to learn and is willing, give him as much as you are happy to let him have, some copper and joints to blow up at lunch time!! change some taps. but don't over load him as it might get to much for the lad and he could give up.

Our trade needs people that want to be in it, not ones that want the money out of it!! (bit profound for this time of night!!)


just think that we all started somewhere!!

 

[cookey]

I see what you are all saying. I was the son of a plumber so it was sort of easily access able as there was always but and bobs around the garage to mess around with. I only done my gas last year after dad passed but it was fairly easy as I had a grounding and place to ask if I needed. But I still needed to do the theory stuff. So I've been there too. I'll go easy today. Keep you all posted on his progress

 

[WHPES]

Imagine you're starting on something you know very little about - perhaps elecrical / air conditioning / electronics etc

 

[Jimbob]

Changing PCBs in the first week, that's a hell of a step for a first year apprentice. Id just have him carrying tools, making tea while looking at boilers, if he's keen enough, he will learn from watching

 

[TGor]

Sounds to me this lad is lucky to have a tradesman who cares both about the trade and how best to pass it on .. Hats off to Cookey

 

[croydoncorgi]

Interesting that no-one has stopped to ask two things:

- what is the average apprentice 'supposed' to know about (say) plumbing and heating before being exposed to customers and real systems?

- how much of that knowledge is going to form part of any college course?

Uncomfortable answers, given the level of 'dumbing down' and increased complexity of the systems themselves.

(For example, how many here know straight away why 56 degrees C in an important number in modern heating systems?)

 

[Rickster123]

I think it's a shame that some people forget what it was like to be an apprentice at 16/17 years of age. It's a long learning curve and at times a depressing, soul destroying job to do. I wish him luck and glad to see that he's doing it the hard way and not a fast tracker. Well done to the op for taking him on and for taking the time to train him the right way.

 

[Deleted member 25704]

Ok good advice. We changed a 2 port valve the other day. An explanation of what the valve does and why was given so he takes it all in. Thanks

Cookey, did you serve an apprenticeship or did you do a fast track or are you a self made man?

Motorised valves and pcb's are advanced installations. Before this comes the electrical 'safe isolation procedure', technical learning (which only happens at level 3 for electrics and heating components).

I take you point on the college stuff - totally irrelevant for apprentices at level 2, for most of the time, because they are doing advanced stuff at work, and basics at college, which are not really required for employed apprentics.

The point I think you are making is that the training is not adequate to match your and the apprentices' 'present' needs - and I think you make a valid point.

I had my 16 lad, doing combustion analysis, gas testing, landlord checks under supervision. He now knows more about combustion than me.

The time it takes for even the most motivated apprentices is about 2-3 years, before they start 'understanding' plumbing and heating in the way of principles.

To conclude, well done on giving a lad a chance and making your community better, through taking an apprentice!

 

[goz666]

I took a lad on in October last year, he approached me willing to work for free !! He was 19 years old and had been at college since age 16, I didn't need anyone but thought I'd give him a try, and see if I could help him out. First job we went to was an open vent out and a combi in.

First day I asked what he'd done in college and he said he was qualified up to NVQ level 2 and only needed to complete his portfolio to have NVQ level 3, I thought oh well that's a decent standard. He said he'd hung many boilers in the college and piped up but never 'on the job' so I let him unpack the boiler (a worcester 24i junior ) and told him to start hanging.

To cut all this short i had to take down some ceiling to get to the gas pipe to uprgrade to 22mm and so the pipework was coming down in between the joists and running down through the back of the boiler. On this boiler I told him to copy from the MI's and to keep the pipework within the template shaded area. Went upstairs to remove the cylinder and tanks and when I came back he'd put the pipework totally opposite to where I showed him, then he started complaining that it was impossible to get all the pipework in that small area between the joists......I explained that in the real world every job we do is totally different and when people say it's a straight swop...it rarely is...last I heard from him he was considering whether he wanted to do this job because it wasn't like they'd said in college.
I felt sorry for the lad, I paid him up anyway but i wonder sometimes whether all the time in college is worth anything. You can't beat being on the job for gaining experience.

If it was me and the lads only done six weeks then you have a good opportunity to teach him the basics and teach him the right way. For a start mate I would just let him shadow you for a few weeks and just let him do the basics. Fetching and carrying, and core drilling all the holes...!!:devilish:

 

[rocketmanbkk]

he may lack soem confidence that will come naturally, he needs time to trust himself and know that he's not going to get binned should he not know answers.

I reckon once he's got some more confidence, hopefully he'll be scaring the wot sits out of you with TOO many questions!!!

Good on you for taking an apprentice also.

Best of luck

Rocket

 

[LeakFinder's]

Tamz is right. He has only done 6 weeks and it will be all the basics cutting, soldering, threading. measuring. The first year is really being able to identify tools and very basic assemblies. If you pop into the tech and speak to lecturer/instructor taking him you may be able to get a copy of the syllabus. It will give you a guide to what he will cover over the year. I would say don't bog him down with too much technical stuff yet and let him get his feet below him. The syllabus he will follow will be suffice for him to gain his exams and your job is to let him gain experience some of the stuff he will do from day to day will never be taught at his day release and other stuff he will be common with. I would say within 6 months you will get a feel for if he will cut it.

 

[Guest123]

Call that scaring your apprentice? I got mine to sniff a urinal trap just so he got the experience of what he'll be doing for the rest of his life.

 

[cookey]

Ok basics. He done a few bits today. Homework was a set of old mixer taps taken from a bath. I've asked him to strip em down and see how the cartridge works, how mixing takes place etc etc.

 

[WHPES]

Colleage of mine took on an apprentice on straight out of school last year and tells me he's a great find. He's a very fast learner, keen and enthusiastic. He has alrerady got him involved with some quite advanced stuff.

However he reckons he'll probably get bored with plumbing after a while and want to study further at college / University and get into some sort of advanced engineering eventually. My colleague isn't bothered by this and is actually keen that the lad does advance himself if that is what he wants to do.

 

[Guest123]

It's brilliant that there are a lot of young kids out there trying their very best to improve their prospects for the future, instead of relying on unemployment handouts from the tax payer.

This year there are thousands of apprenticeship placements being created by the Scottish Government and that at the very least is a step in the right direction.

If I wasn't forced to pay the UK Treasury thousands of pounds per annum in extortionate fuel duty, I'd look at training another young lad. I'm about £200 per week just now to run my Transit. If the UK government would give small companies like mine a fuel subsidy, I'd gladly take on another lad with my savings on fuel costs.

I wonder what would cost the government more....paying unemployment benefit to the millions of unemployed or cutting fuel duty and giving it as a subsidy for businesses?

 

[cookey]

Goodpoint system 3. Perhaps we should all lobby our local mp,s to see what can be done. I rang mine to find out what programmes there were to help apprentices. No answer so far though. it's a sad situation that margins are getting squeezed with operating costs going up which are causing adverse affects elsewhere. I can and will do my own **** jobs so right now when I see someone who is supposed to be an apprentice with his hands in his pockets I have to wonder?

 

[tamz]

Funding for training (usually collage fees and sometimes a bit more) are available. Might be worth ringing the CITB
CITB-ConstructionSkills Apprenticeships - ConstructionSkills

 

[Guest123]

Our local council has a Scottish government funded scheme to help with training apprentices. Would be nice to get a subsidy towards fuel to help in these trying times.

 

[tamz]

You'd have more luck asking for a grant for a wheelbarra :smile:

 

[Guest123]

Well my local "recycling" depot or tip as I prefer to call it charges £27 for a business to dump rubbish. Meanwhile the local Gippos come in and get dump it for free.

What happened to saving the planet when I have to pay for doing it?

@Tamz, wheel barra no chance, but we get a subsidy for a skip.