New boiler install - is this acceptable work?

[blueplanet]

Hi

I had a new boiler installed and wondered if you think this is acceptable workmanship.

Looks like they started to drill a hole at the front and then had to move down.

Thanks for your input.

 

[Scott_D]

Its not pretty

 

[ShaunCorbs]

They found the lintel bet you

also depends on price ?

 

[blueplanet]

It was installed by one of the big Energy companies. Should they have not checked for where the lintel might be? I think its terrible and its at the front of the house.

The internal wall, I can make that good. But the inside cupboard - what's wrong with a small hole big enough for the pipe.

 

[snowhead]

Its not pretty

It's Pretty awful

 

[ShaunCorbs]

So granted free or low cost ?

normally the lintel extends 150mm max 200mm so they would of been clear

As for the hole I guess they needed to get there hand in there

 

[blueplanet]

So granted free or low cost ?

normally the lintel extends 150mm max 200mm so they would of been clear

As for the hole I guess they needed to get there hand in there

I would have cut a neat hole using one of those pieces (cant recall what its called) at least or put the "L" corner on and then put the pipe in through smaller hole and lined up with the hole they drilled through the worktop.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

I would have cut a neat hole using one of those pieces (cant recall what its called) at least or put the "L" corner on and then put the pipe in through smaller hole and lined up with the hole they drilled through the worktop.

unfortunately they don’t have the time there paid like £200 to install a new boiler

I’m going to take a guess around 4 hours max to install it ?

 

[blueplanet]

unfortunately they don’t have the time there paid like £200 to install a new boiler

I’m going to take a guess around 4 hours max to install it ?

They took about 6 hours. I had taken down the cupboards for them so they didnt have much to do other than remove old and put new one in. I think one was a trainee.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

They took about 6 hours. I had taken down the cupboards for them so they didnt have much to do other than remove old and put new one in. I think one was a trainee.

did they clean and flush the heating system?

 

[blueplanet]

did they clean and flush the heating system?

Yes, I think so. They drained it. I don't know about flushing it. They never attached any hose to wash through.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Did you pay for the install?

 

[blueplanet]

Did you pay for the install?

Yes and on a credit so two potential avenues. This is what the quote said:

• Vaillant ecoFIT pure 418 (Heat Only)
• System Filter
• Heating System Inhibitor
• Heating System Cleaner
• 15mm Filling Loop
• 2 Year Guarantee
• 15mm Radiator Valve & Lockshield (Angled)
• Vaillant Standard Horizontal Flue
• Vaillant Flue Extension Kit 980mm

Do you know what the filling loop is?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

If you don’t mind what was the quote ?

it’s for a sealed system to top up the system but yours is open vent I’m guessing

 

[blueplanet]

If you don’t mind what was the quote ?

it’s for a sealed system to top up the system but yours is open vent I’m guessing

Just over £1400. Its an indirect unvented system. I have raised it with the Energy co. I will see what they say and then go from there. I will post back in due course.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Good luck

 

[blueplanet]

If you don’t mind what was the quote ?

it’s for a sealed system to top up the system but yours is open vent I’m guessing

Good luck

Thanks all for your help.

 

[Brambles]

The best price I can buy that boiler (with flue) for is £743 + Vat. The flue centre must be a minimum of 300mm from the inside edge of the door frame - measured horizontally. If it is not - when you receive your Building Control certification call Gas Safe for an inspection.

Read the Valliant users manual, but I think you will find that unless the system has been flushed before the boiler was installed there is no warranty.

If you paid £1400 incl Vat - it is a very cheap deal. Just get them back to sort out the builders work and make sure that you have a warranty.

 

[WC1]

Big energy co's are notorious for subbing to cheapest installer who knows full well he'll probably never see you again. Your workmanship is fairly standard of big energy companies.
Properly installed you could get a 10 year warranty. Badly installed you get nothing.

 

[blueplanet]

The best price I can buy that boiler (with flue) for is £743 + Vat. The flue centre must be a minimum of 300mm from the inside edge of the door frame - measured horizontally. If it is not - when you receive your Building Control certification call Gas Safe for an inspection.

Read the Valliant users manual, but I think you will find that unless the system has been flushed before the boiler was installed there is no warranty.

If you paid £1400 incl Vat - it is a very cheap deal. Just get them back to sort out the builders work and make sure that you have a warranty.

Thanks. In the manual, there is a commissioning form that asks if the system been flushed, they ticked yes for it being flushed and then signed it. They then forged my signature on the form to say it had all been explained etc.

 

[Last Plumber]

There are no words!

 

[gmartine]

Thanks. In the manual, there is a commissioning form that asks if the system been flushed, they ticked yes for it being flushed and then signed it. They then forged my signature on the form to say it had all been explained etc.

Oh, you've got them by the balls then. Document everything that's wrong including the falsification of a legal document. You have to give them a chance to make good even though you won't want to. Ideally get your solicitor involved to write them a stiff letter to show you mean business. While you're at it fire a letter to Vaillant because I'm sure they'd appreciate their products being installed so shoddily, in the end they have to maintain the product warranty that's been validated by the benchmark (that has been falsified).

No point mucking about, send one to the boss...

Your visit to ceoemail.com

 

[blueplanet]

Oh, you've got them by the balls then. Document everything that's wrong including the falsification of a legal document. You have to give them a chance to make good even though you won't want to. Ideally get your solicitor involved to write them a stiff letter to show you mean business. While you're at it fire a letter to Vaillant because I'm sure they'd appreciate their products being installed so shoddily, in the end they have to maintain the product warranty that's been validated by the benchmark (that has been falsified).

No point mucking about, send one to the boss...

https://www.ceoemail.com/s.php?id=ceo-

http://

Oh, you've got them by the balls then. Document everything that's wrong including the falsification of a legal document. You have to give them a chance to make good even though you won't want to. Ideally get your solicitor involved to write them a stiff letter to show you mean business. While you're at it fire a letter to Vaillant because I'm sure they'd appreciate their products being installed so shoddily, in the end they have to maintain the product warranty that's been validated by the benchmark (that has been falsified).

No point mucking about, send one to the boss...

Your visit to ceoemail.com

I was thinking that may be due to covid he signed on my behalf but on reflection the installers should have stated my name on it and just noted not signed due to covid - like the couriers / Royal Mail do.

 

[gmartine]

Mmmmm...it's your document, he could've gone through it with you like he's obliged to and then witnessed you signing it while social distancing.

 

[oz-plumber]

http://

I was thinking that may be due to covid he signed on my behalf but on reflection the installers should have stated my name on it and just noted not signed due to covid - like the couriers / Royal Mail do.

Covid may have caused many inconveniences,
Forging a signature is not one of them.

Why do sound so casual about it?
I would take legal action immediately.

I would demand the installation be fixed by another contractor from the Company.
If the sent the original contractor back, I would belt him at the door.

You just can't forge someones signature on a legal document, no matter how incidental the document is.
I would also insist on a flush as per the MI's.

I would also threaten to go to the media about the forged signature and the standard of the install.

 

[blueplanet]

Why do sound so casual about it?.

Thanks, I have lodged a complaint (including the signature) and will as you and others suggested be getting them to resolve the issue.

 

[Knappers]

If its ok I'd like to use your pictures to show customers when they ask why I've quoted 2 days to do their install.
Bespoke quote + 1h
Decent flush + 2h
Neat carefull work + 3h
Rads balanced + 1h
Making good +2h
Aftercare and giving a s#!t - priceless
£300
Bargin IMO

 

[TonyC]

The workmanship is appalling and to my mind totally unacceptable, regardless whether the job was cheap, very cheap or expensive.
Being cheap is not an excuse for carrying out substandard work, and any one who thinks it is shouldn't be doing the work.

 

[Brian Woolley]

Even if this was a “free” installation; I’d be complaining.
The flue installation, both internally and externally are beyond unacceptable. Anyone could make an error on core drilling, but at least try and make it presentable.
The probability of lack of proper commissioning, also speaks volumes.
If the benchmark states that the system is flushed, ask for a turbidity test alongside a TDS measurement; guessing that’ll confirm little has been done.
Usually installers that are mediocre, use cheap boilers; Vaillant are usually best of the best.
Absolutely shocking.

 

[blueplanet]

I agree with both of the last two responses. They even knocked on brick out then put it back but didnt put it flush. So when you see it in real life the brick is sticking out at an angle.

Should there be a cover over or around the flue? Or do the Vaillant ones not come with a cover? Thanks.

 

[Brian Woolley]

The rubber weather collar, that’s already fitted externally, is all that’s supplied/supposed to be fitted.
Internally, Vaillant would supply a off white plastic collar, which many installers don’t fit as most can use finishing plaster to a good internal finish.
Unfortunately, Vaillant changed their flue suppler several years ago; and it’s been said many times, that the quality isn’t as good as it was before. Personal opinions do vary on this matter though.
Internally, it looks like a form of expanding foam has been used, this used to be frowned upon.
Furthermore, to make good externally, a good brickie would fix that; maybe 9 bricks total, but would need some matching if it were me.
This is speaking as an ex-Vaillant engineer.

 

[gmartine]

Depends on the gap size but nowadays it's ok to use foam to fix flues, as long as the remaining inch or so is rendered in mortar/plaster then it is to standard afak and ok with many manufacturers. Obviously nothing like the example in this thread where it's been used to replace whole bricks by the looks of things.

 

[king of pipes]

That is appalling work I would honestly report this one to gas Safe who will inspect the work it could take a while due to covid ,? and force the installer to put the install right at their cost. Shocking 6 hours for boiler change is no where near enough time to do a quality job here is one I did recently. Regards
Kop

 

[Riley]

Would love to see some pics of the pipework

 

[gmartine]

That is appalling work I would honestly report this one to gas Safe who will inspect the work it could take a while due to covid ,? and force the installer to put the install right at their cost. Shocking 6 hours for boiler change is no where near enough time to do a quality job here is one I did recently. Regards
Kop

It's very shoddy no doubt but is it dangerous or dangerous enough to involve Gas Safe? They don't usually attend where it is a question of very poor workmanship, no harm asking though.

 

[EvilDrPorkChop]

It's very shoddy no doubt but is it dangerous or dangerous enough to involve Gas Safe? They don't usually attend where it is a question of very poor workmanship, no harm asking though.

Yeah I was thinking the same. An inspector we had, said even though they see some awful work most of it is 'safe' in their eyes. The quality of work is poor in the OPs photos, but the flue is sealed etc. Gas Safe won't be interested.

 

[king of pipes]

Every install the customer has the right to have it inspected by Gas Safe for free, I personally corrected a bad install for a customer who got gas Safe involved after their Valliant boiler failed after 6 weeks, the engineer was made to pay back the costs involved, retrain put on probation for 6 months so I would say phone them for advice. Kop

 

[gmartine]

Well that's not exactly true KoP. According to your attachment you have to nominate your property for a free inspection which doesn't mean you're entitled to one. If you have gas safety concerns then of course report it BUT that's the point about the OP's install is it gas unsafe or is it just an install very shoddily executed? No harm in asking I agree but then given what we've seen of it there is no guarantee they'll get involved too.

 

[king of pipes]

Well that's not exactly true KoP. According to your attachment you have to nominate your property for a free inspection which doesn't mean you're entitled to one. If you have gas safety concerns then of course report it BUT that's the point about the OP's install is it gas unsafe or is it just an install very shoddily executed? No harm in asking I agree but then given what we've seen of it there is no guarantee they'll get involved too.

What would you do in his position ? I have been on both sides of gas safe I got reported once they were there like a shot luckily it all turned out well , it was the neighbor who made the complaint regarding a flue position they will attend if there is a safety concern, but agreed there may be or there may not either way it needs sorting and at least brought up to a acceptable standard which it's definitely is not and falsifying the benchmark and signatures is not a smart move .

 

[gmartine]

He's contacted the firm to ask them to make good, that I'm sure you'll agree is the right thing to do because it isn't a safety issue or at least one we can see. The falsification on the other hand is worth reporting although if true I'm not sure what can be done about it. If the systems been dosed adequately fine but how do you prove it hasn't been flushed and cleaned, then what? He says yes, we have our doubts but whose to say he hasn't and as the OP said he signed off the Benchmark because of Covid.

 

[Chuck]

What would you do in his position ?

I'd get a building company to quote for a proper repair the damaged wall teamed up with a heating guy to look after the flue. A nice repair to the wall is going to need a time-served brick-layer being paid well enough to take care. Matching the bricks, if they're not readily available, is going to involve swapping out some from a less visible position. Matching the pointing is also going to take some messing around.

If I were the OP I'd be more than a bit fed up with whoever made that mess.

 

[king of pipes]

He's contacted the firm to ask them to make good, that I'm sure you'll agree is the right thing to do because it isn't a safety issue or at least one we can see. The falsification on the other hand is worth reporting although if true I'm not sure what can be done about it. If the systems been dosed adequately fine but how do you prove it hasn't been flushed and cleaned, then what? He says yes, we have our doubts but whose to say he hasn't and as the OP said he signed off the Benchmark because of Covid.

My point is the GSI who carried out this work needs to realise the quality of the work he's doing is just not to a acceptable standard he could be doing 3 or 4 a week ? we all have a duty of care to our customers to carry out a contracted install to a high standard and make good any damage caused, cleaning a system properly can take half a day minimum, commissioning completing the relevant work paperwork leaves very little time to carry out the actual install itself if it's completed in a day or less? Get the work checked if it's gas safe? then its all well and good if not then it will eventually be brought up to a acceptable standard the op should not be expected to pay extra for repairs to be carried out . Regards Kop

 

[gmartine]

I know what your point is but I do not agree with your interpretation of what should be done, why and who by and I think you're mixing the standard of work that is done to an acceptable standard with what is required to be done safely and legally and there's quite a difference between the two.

Under the consumer rights act work should be carried out with reasonable care and skill and it's fair to say this hasn't been. We are legally obliged via Gas Safe/Benchmark to carry out an installation safely and to specification and that's why you put your signature to it.

Gas Safe does not specify the flue cavity cannot be badly filled with mortar instead of using matching brick or a kitchen unit cannot be punched out with a hammer instead of hole sawed or cut out neatly to allow pipe access. None of the above is essentially unsafe which is what Gas Safe will assess if they chose to come out NOT the standard of the work that does not effect gas safety.

Let's assume this ends up messily trying to recover costs, there is due process that is well established which includes contacting the installer first and allowing them to make good, if that fails then contacting other tradesman to quote and make good is one of the next steps....

How to complain if you're unhappy with building work - Which?

Are you unhappy with the standard of the building work you've received? Our step-by-step guide explains your rights and helps you resolve a trader dispute.

www.which.co.uk

 

[king of pipes]

Guess we have a difference of opinion there then G I am only going on my past experiences with this sort of issue, you may well be correct in your interpretation of it if you are then I stand corrected. Regards kop

 

[gmartine]

Guess we have a difference of opinion there then G I am only going on my past experiences with this sort of issue, you may well be correct in your interpretation of it if you are then I stand corrected. Regards kop

Mate, I agree it's a terrible standard of work but it can be terrible and still Gas Safe that's all.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Can’t be unsafe as most landlord jobs are done to a worse standard least they cut the flue

 

[king of pipes]

Just dug out the pictures of the one i corrected the Valliant boiler was fitted and a Gloworm blanced flue boiler removed , the Gas safe issue was the gas supply was undersized there was also a gas hob fitted, but i am sure you will agree its poor very poor for a new boiler upgrade. Kop

 

[thetalkmark]

Hi

I had a new boiler installed and wondered if you think this is acceptable workmanship.

Looks like they started to drill a hole at the front and then had to move down.

Thanks for your input.

thats a good one..you probably need a real plumber.

 

[gmartine]

Just dug out the pictures of the one i corrected the Valliant boiler was fitted and a Gloworm blanced flue boiler removed , the Gas safe issue was the gas supply was undersized there was also a gas hob fitted, but i am sure you will agree its poor very poor for a new boiler upgrade. Kop

Nope, nothing wrong with that....

 

[king of pipes]

Nope, nothing wrong with that.***

Your a funny guy G there isnt now