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Skills shortage ? Every job in this country i think cpuld be done by an english person ! In aus they only take skilled people and skills they need !

Say alot of doctors are indian etc why cant they go back to india and be adoctor there ? If everyone did it would it not help to boost india ? Ok theyll take a pay cut but the price of living there is nothing !
 
the most common tax dodgers are large corps/ companies. The govenrment will spend more money chasing a plumber for that 20% of that 20 quid you charged that oap down the road for a new outside tap than the millions these large companies should have coughed up. easier to squash the little guy im affraid.

im talking about the guys who pay no tax. The people who claim the benefits and do the work to. It's not just the big firms. Is too easy to point the finger at them and them alone. But yes, I'd hang them too!
 
Reading these comments I realise just how liberal I am. Theses events where shocking but let's not confuse 2 nut jobs with 60 million odd Muslims. I like to think we live in a free(ish) country where anybody can air there views regardless of who it offends! Imagine loving in North Korea for example!

I have a wide range of friends Muslim black chinesse gay I'd hate it if they had to suffer for prejudice brought on by two people terrible actions.

Hitler lost the war the facists where defeated lads lets keep it that way.

This is not two nut jobs tho is it !!!

All over africa ,asia and south america beheadings ,drive buy shootings,kidnappings and car bombs are a very regular occurance .What happened in woolwich is happening on mass everyday in these countries now its on our own doorstep everyone is in shock horror. We get sheltered from what really happens outside of our little bubble so as horrific as it is its nothing new .
Having met many muslims most are normall people going about everyday lives but to say its to nut jobs couldn't be further from the truth . Their is a river of evil in this religion and imho muslims themselves dont do enough to eradicate this .
 
Skills shortage ? Every job in this country i think cpuld be done by an english person ! In aus they only take skilled people and skills they need !

Say alot of doctors are indian etc why cant they go back to india and be adoctor there ? If everyone did it would it not help to boost india ? Ok theyll take a pay cut but the price of living there is nothing !

Bull.

The amount of doctors required in this country both public and private could not be filled by British people alone.

Its not just about aptitude, intelligence and education either although these factors do play a part.
Being a doctor is a vocation, a calling it requires a person with a will to want to want to help others. Its not all about driving to work in a beemer its about cleaning puss and puke. Fingers up arses. Venereal diseases and dealing everyday for long hours with the great unwashed.

I certainly couldn't do it and im very greatful for those that can irrespective of where they were born.

Now that is just one profession but surely now it is apparent that migrant workers are not all'coming over here stealing our jobs' but taking up positions to take up the shortfall that our own nationals can't fill.
 
I agree with most of that. But a lot of immigrants are doing the low paid jobs at a million miles an hour. A lot live in run down rentals with eight or more sharing. We should have left working conditions like that years ago.
The big boys use labour like this to keep the rates down and they know we won't do it, and why should we? We're going backwards not forwards, the rich get richer. And all those years of fighting for our working rights have been for nowt.
 
Bull.

The amount of doctors required in this country both public and private could not be filled by British people alone.

Its not just about aptitude, intelligence and education either although these factors do play a part.
Being a doctor is a vocation, a calling it requires a person with a will to want to want to help others. Its not all about driving to work in a beemer its about cleaning puss and puke. Fingers up arses. Venereal diseases and dealing everyday for long hours with the great unwashed.

I certainly couldn't do it and im very greatful for those that can irrespective of where they were born.

Now that is just one profession but surely now it is apparent that migrant workers are not all'coming over here stealing our jobs' but taking up positions to take up the shortfall that our own nationals can't fill.


My mum works in A&E so does my aunty and my cousin they work hard actually they work very hard but even i know that no doctor will ever clean up sick ! They walk away from that ! And i dont think the doctors an nurses cpuldnt be filled by english people ! It could ! Why couldnt they do it ? Numbers ? Theres enough people in the uk !

If it was english people for english jobs then yes training would get restructered etc but i think its stupid to say no the english people cpuldnt do that job ! What jobs couldnt english people do ? And why ?
 
You seem to forget that 90% of the British unemployed form the feckless underclass and wouldn't work if you doubled wages.

Of course we have the numbers to fill positions but people don't have the aptitude, intelligence, education or the calling to fill many positions.

What do you think would happen to the quality of works in a specialist field such as medicine if training and employment were foisted upon individuals who didn't want to do it, didn't feel the calling and didn't have the passion.?

If we needed 100,000 doctors in the UK and we had 100,000 British candidates for those positions you seem to be advocating that those brits should get the job because they are British?

Why do you feel they would be the best candidates for the job??

Surely competition drives standards up while the 'bums on seats' policy is unregulated. Who do you think suffers as a result?
Everyone does as standards drop
 
No i see your point and i understand it ! But there are english people that are willing to work but there is no work ! The training and schools would change if they went to using english people it would have to !

I understand it will never happen but i think if we put some of the people that want to work thats another person paying tax not taking dole ! In america they will take an american before anybody else ! Same in aus !

I think your point about people being in the job that dont want the job is important ! But i believe thats happening alot ! And look at people in the army ! It used to be a respected job etc now its just full of people that dont wanna be there ! They do it because its all they can do
 
The aim of the scum that carried out this attack was to stir up racial hatred and judging by some of the posts on here and stuff I'm seeing on FB they've achieved their goal.

The way to beat these people is not to ban people of a certain religion/skin colour etc. from entering the country it is to try to live together without conflict and accept people for what they are.
 
Since this happend seen a few things on twitter about EDL i thought they where racist thigs. Ive now watched a few videos of them and there leader tommy robinson. There actually not thigs or racist atall ! There members pf all races within the edl ! Hes even made a speech at the EU meeting ! He speaks alot of truth to be honest and makes good points !
 
Unfortunately the bnp and the EDL do have extremist of their own. Recently an ex BNP and now EDL member was arrested for trying to insight hatred against 2 of my friends, setting up campaigns to say my friends faked their disabilities, were a drain on the economy and should have been put down at birth. Both my friends work and do a lot for charity. The EDL member wasnt even of british origin, she was Thai.
Neither will get my vote until they rid themselves of extremists like this.
 
[video=youtube;yRhq-yO1KN8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRhq-yO1KN8[/video]

Enjoy the long weekend everyone.

Keefy
 
Unfortunately the bnp and the EDL do have extremist of their own. Recently an ex BNP and now EDL member was arrested for trying to insight hatred against 2 of my friends, setting up campaigns to say my friends faked their disabilities, were a drain on the economy and should have been put down at birth. Both my friends work and do a lot for charity. The EDL member wasnt even of british origin, she was Thai.
Neither will get my vote until they rid themselves of extremists like this.

I understand what your saying but before i just assumed the where neo natzi like where now i actually agree with what hes saying. There might be a few bad members i dont know but what he speaks is truth really !
 
Most people are stupid. Not Stupid Stupid. Not 'couldn't-trust-them-to-sit-the-right-way-round-on-a-toilet' stupid. But stupid. Nice, ordinary stupid people. Hardworking, honest stupid people. It's the only word left off those sentences:

'What I want to know is," barks a ruddy faced man in the audience of Question Time, "why should decent, ordinary, hardworking, taxpaying, [stupid] people like me have to pay to keep someone like this in [prison] [benefits] [ballet recitals]?"

Well, perhaps not stupid. That implies a lack of capacity. But they are uninformed and relatively uneducated. What else would they be? It doesn't mean they are bad people. Kids are stupid and we like them.

It's not a big problem either. The vast majority of ordinary life goes just fine if you are stupid. You can buy your food shopping, do your job, raise children, fall in love, have hobbies and feed the cat. That's not all you can do. You can travel the world and stand in awe at it's majesty, you can write a series of number one hits, you can carry out an act of such bravery and self-sacrifice as to make you a martyr for a worthy cause.

But I believe that the core issues around a subject like the one discussed in this thread fall slightly and often out of the skillset of nice ordinary people. It's not that they shouldn't have and voice their opinions - that's democracy (although it's worth noting the indisputable fact that democracy only becomes more effective the more informed the population) but rather than forming useful and reasoned views on political issues - which are complicated and often come down to decisions on morality and ethics (even more complicated) - requires a little more.....training.

You wouldn't know it too look at politicians but this stuff requires some expertise. A level of elitism. We've come to the odd position where people think that everyone has a valid opinion on political matters. Which is nonsense. Everyone is allowed an opinion (apart from the far fringes, the disenfranchised, the imprisoned etc) but that doesn't automatically make it valid. In fact you can usually tell the opinion least worth hearing by the way it begins with the line, "Everyone is entitled to their opinion and I think..." Much like the worst rebuttals begin with, "Yes but that's just your opinion..." It's sort of an off-shoot of the culture around words like "respect" and "offense." The belief that simply having a view (religious, cultural, political) means it needs to be treated with respect. It doesn't. Often quite the opposite. And that if you don't like what you hear or what someone says back you can claim to have been offended. Like it gives you special rights to consideration. Which it doesn't. It's just a whine.

Your honest Joe no doubt has a fully functioning moral compass but that doesn't mean it will point the right way when a highly nuanced and complicated moral issue is on the table. Right now some people are no doubt thinking 'What is complicated about what to do with people who preach praise for the butchering of a British soldier on the streets of London?' Well if you can't see the balancing act that must necessarily exist between dealing with the odious and the dangerous and maintaing a civil society with equality before the law and freedom of speech above all else, then I think you've proved my point.

Just like you can guess the views of a woman in a burka or a screeching, rabid mullah, I'm afraid you can all too easily guess the views of the honest, ordinary, taxpaying, hardworking gent who starts off by saying they should be hanged. The more emotional, the more angry you are - the less you have to contribute to debates which require dispassionate and reasoned thought. Which they do.

In this thread, too much kudos is given to ordinaryjoe'ism. I think my point is that if these issues didn't effect everyone we would be quite content to leave them to be hussled out in the worlds of expertise and academia. But they directly effect us and so they become our job. They have to be our job. But many of us are just not qualified to do it. Even though we have to. I'd count myself as one of them, mostly. I don't know nearly enough. But I think I know just enough to know how little I know.

Even though he was talking about candiates running for president, Sam Harris said it quite well:

"Ask yourself: how has "elitism" become a bad word in American politics? There is simply no other walk of life in which extraordinary talent and rigorous training are denigrated. We want elite pilots to fly our planes, elite troops to undertake our most critical missions, elite athletes to represent us in competition and elite scientists to devote the most productive years of their lives to curing our diseases. And yet, when it comes time to vest people with even greater responsibilities, we consider it a virtue to shun any and all standards of excellence. When it comes to choosing the people whose thoughts and actions will decide the fates of millions, then we suddenly want someone just like us, someone fit to have a beer with, someone down-to-earth—in fact, almost anyone, provided that he or she doesn't seem too intelligent or well educated."

So what skills might be missing from the purview of nice ordinary people tackling issues such as this. Well for a start I would suggest a thorough familiarity with and understanding of the immutable and all-trumping right to protected free speech. Nothing gets in the way of this. You hear me? Nothing. No matter how unpleasant someone's views. I would genuinely prefer to live in a country where a lunatic preacher can freely praise acts of heinous brutality and be allowed to stay and afforded the same benefits as everyone else than one where a special, partially-elected bunch of oligarchs can determine - without consultation - whose views can or cannot be heard. It's frustrating how this - the ultimate right - is so often not given the respect it deserves in these discussions. Every generation has a pressing and urgent need to expell a certain class of people, to silence a certain minority, to obtain a perceived modicom of safety in exchange for giving away - just a little - but of their freedom to think, to choose, to listen.

Hitchens said it far better in 7 minutes then I ever could:

Christopher Hitchens -- Free Speech Part 1 - YouTube

I think everyone's view is not equally valid. If you look at the EDL and think they should be given a shot if they weed off a few of the more extreme elements, you are wrong. Objectively wrong. Demonstrably wrong. And should go away and read a book.

It is a fact that the more educated people become the more liberal they become. Conversely, the least well educated will often have the most reactionary, defensive, aggressive views. The ultimate question is why this fact, which stares us all in the face, doesn't get through to people. If you ask Vicky Pollard why she is wearing a tracksuit and fat she might be well aware the answer is because her impoverished background grew in her a propensity for naff clothes and a penchant for fried chips. But ask her why she thinks paedo's should be publically castrated and she'll tell you it's because it's the right thing to do. I'm up for closing this gap. It's ok that people who got less lucky with their educational opportunities have less informed opinions. But it's not ok that they don't know this.

Until they learn this they should be hung, castrated and then deported.

I've forgotten what I was talking about.
 
Oh I just love being called stupid! The current system Doesn't work! Most of us have had enough if this 5hit. And while I agree with most of what you say it seem just another excuse for our leaders to keep up there inactivity.
 
what you forgot to mention was that we live in a country that allows lunatic muslim preachers to praise acts of violence but won't allow the majority of the population who happen to be christian the same chance to voice their opinions without being hauled before the courts on a racism charge
When you dare to voice an opinion about these crimes the racism card is always pulled out when its nothing to do with race it's religion the cause of so many deaths just because some lunatics believes there actually is a god!

just my uneducated opinion for what it's worth
 
Oh I just love being called stupid! The current system Doesn't work! Most of us have had enough if this 5hit. And while I agree with most of what you say it seem just another excuse for our leaders to keep up there inactivity.


I barely read any of the thread and don't remember who posted what so certainly wasn't making any targeted responses. I'm far too interested in my own voice to do that. I also don't fully agree with what I've written, I just enjoy being contentious whilst plausibly well argued. But anyway..

Isn't the current system just a slightly more representational and accountable version of that which we have had for hundreds and hundreds of years? I agree it doesn't work for us. It's not designed to. It's designed to work for the interests of the few. But it would be a sad end to this chapter of history if what finally toppled the oppressive systems of old was Tommy Robinson and his baseball cap of intolerance.

what you forgot to mention was that we live in a country that allows lunatic muslim preachers to praise acts of violence but won't allow the majority of the population who happen to be christian the same chance to voice their opinions without being hauled before the courts on a racism charge
When you dare to voice an opinion about these crimes the racism card is always pulled out when its nothing to do with race it's religion the cause of so many deaths just because some lunatics believes there actually is a god!

just my uneducated opinion for what it's worth

I agree with that. Not sure where I implied otherwise. Although if there is a bias towards the rights of the muslims to be loud and obnoxious it might have been born of their being a minority. The rights to expression of minorities are generally to be offered more protection than those of the majority. Although this can backfire as it turns out they aint half loud.
 
Alot of this is down to consecutive govt inactivity human right carp we cant even put hook hands on a plane to jordan which is a complete joke .
We have thousands of mad mullahs on our streets preaching hate declaring war on us death to the infidel etc etc etc this should not be allowed , the govt need to grow a set and round up any one who has flashed up on mi5's radar and ship them out i dont think anyone with half a brain would object to that .
Islam tho also needs to adapt and do more to recognise that alot of the worlds population see's it as a backward religion and to a point aggresive and evil and you cant just blame bad press on that , only yesterday four people killed in southern thailand by islamists !!
 
Have you seen the other stuff around this ? More to it than just that !

Have you noticed also how the edl will upload a video you can watch it and there isnt anything racist on it atall but then it gets removed ? From all sites ! One of there videos was the most viewed video on youtube last night ! Then got removed !

No I haven't noticed, nor have I seen it reported anywhere.
 
No I haven't noticed, nor have I seen it reported anywhere.

That's due to freedom of speech being denied and censorship taking over.
 
Honestly ive watched some of the stuff and i agree with their points ! But the police etc want them to shut them up ! Like today he was showing a load of interviews he did at their protest he made somthing like 5 interviews with the tob news crews and non of them have made a story because there was no violence ! Nothing went wrong ! The police spokesman said about 1.5-2k people showed up ! There was 7k there ! All marching !

After he was interviewed on the tv the night of the killing dvid cameron said the edl needs to grow up ! But yet he had the leader tommy robinson speaking at the E.U meeting ?

Theres alot going on for the edl and everybodys trying to shut it up ! He got arrested for taking the poppies off the muslims that where burning them then got put in prison for a month ! He was told he wasnt allowed to have emails, phonecalls or meetings involving or to do with the EDL ! Thats not freedom of speech !!!!

He was also gettin interviewed alongside a cheif of police and he said to the cheif of police on blah blah date did you have to give a group of 3 jews an police escort because of fear they would get attacked by muslims for wearing there skull caps ! The policeman agreed but then went to argue againest him !
 
Honestly ive watched some of the stuff and i agree with their points ! But the police etc want them to shut them up ! Like today he was showing a load of interviews he did at their protest he made somthing like 5 interviews with the tob news crews and non of them have made a story because there was no violence ! Nothing went wrong ! The police spokesman said about 1.5-2k people showed up ! There was 7k there ! All marching !

After he was interviewed on the tv the night of the killing dvid cameron said the edl needs to grow up ! But yet he had the leader tommy robinson speaking at the E.U meeting ?

Theres alot going on for the edl and everybodys trying to shut it up ! He got arrested for taking the poppies off the muslims that where burning them then got put in prison for a month ! He was told he wasnt allowed to have emails, phonecalls or meetings involving or to do with the EDL ! Thats not freedom of speech !!!!

He was also gettin interviewed alongside a cheif of police and he said to the cheif of police on blah blah date did you have to give a group of 3 jews an police escort because of fear they would get attacked by muslims for wearing there skull caps ! The policeman agreed but then went to argue againest him !

Please tell me what be EDL has going for it?
 
Its amusing to see the EDL using the death of a man to showboat themselves by being violent, ignorant thugs and smashing up a pub. #irony
 
The edl started off as a movement against islam nothing violent as such but demo's etc problem being is that local thugs and footy hooligans have attached themselves to it and now use them as a channel to be a bunch of racist dirkheads
 
The EDL was founded by the Luton Town football hooligans. The majority will have convictions for football related violence etc, including the leader Tommy Robinson, which isn't his real name but the name of one of the top boys from the Luton Town MIG's football hooligan firm. Although I do agree with certain aspects of what they say, on the whole they are laughable as a political group. They really need to ditch he hangers on who are only there to cause trouble to get any kind of political recognition.
 
Ive only been watching the edl stuff since the killing ill be honest and yer i do agree with what they say but tet do make good point about the likes of freedom of speech ! Yesterday they had a protest and they say 7 thousand turned up and from the videos id agree but yet the police are saying 1.5k ? And the papers all saying about 1k ? Whys that ? Why aint they showing that side ? The man made 5 interviews to news crews not one was posted ! Why ?

Because they wanted the interviews incase it turned into a riot then showed te videos and blamed the EDL ! Im not the edl supporter although i dp sound like im singing praises here but they are speaking some truth ! Go watch some of the videos and tell me you dont agree with some if not all of what there saying !
 
Its something that the news crews dont want to show imho big groups of people chanting anti muslim and patriotic songs doesnt really go well with govt spin and its easy to tar them as racists which they arnt.
 
is it better than a religion against life???

i havent got time for any of it edl anti muslims whatever as to busy chasing money ,stressing over work and why hoovers are crap these days
 
There was a great politician once who said the streets would run red with blood if they kept letting so many ethnic minorities in
Guess he was right
Enoch Powell rip
 
There was a great politician once who said the streets would run red with blood if they kept letting so many ethnic minorities in
Guess he was right
Enoch Powell rip

Rivers of blood lol



This is the full text of Enoch Powell's so-called 'Rivers of Blood' speech, which was delivered to a Conservative Association meeting in Birmingham on April 20 1968.

The supreme function of statesmanship is to provide against preventable evils. In seeking to do so, it encounters obstacles which are deeply rooted in human nature.

One is that by the very order of things such evils are not demonstrable until they have occurred: at each stage in their onset there is room for doubt and for dispute whether they be real or imaginary. By the same token, they attract little attention in comparison with current troubles, which are both indisputable and pressing: whence the besetting temptation of all politics to concern itself with the immediate present at the expense of the future.

Above all, people are disposed to mistake predicting troubles for causing troubles and even for desiring troubles: "If only," they love to think, "if only people wouldn't talk about it, it probably wouldn't happen."

Perhaps this habit goes back to the primitive belief that the word and the thing, the name and the object, are identical.

At all events, the discussion of future grave but, with effort now, avoidable evils is the most unpopular and at the same time the most necessary occupation for the politician. Those who knowingly shirk it deserve, and not infrequently receive, the curses of those who come after.

A week or two ago I fell into conversation with a constituent, a middle-aged, quite ordinary working man employed in one of our nationalised industries.

After a sentence or two about the weather, he suddenly said: "If I had the money to go, I wouldn't stay in this country." I made some deprecatory reply to the effect that even this government wouldn't last for ever; but he took no notice, and continued: "I have three children, all of them been through grammar school and two of them married now, with family. I shan't be satisfied till I have seen them all settled overseas. In this country in 15 or 20 years' time the black man will have the whip hand over the white man."

I can already hear the chorus of execration. How dare I say such a horrible thing? How dare I stir up trouble and inflame feelings by repeating such a conversation?

The answer is that I do not have the right not to do so. Here is a decent, ordinary fellow Englishman, who in broad daylight in my own town says to me, his Member of Parliament, that his country will not be worth living in for his children.

I simply do not have the right to shrug my shoulders and think about something else. What he is saying, thousands and hundreds of thousands are saying and thinking - not throughout Great Britain, perhaps, but in the areas that are already undergoing the total transformation to which there is no parallel in a thousand years of English history.

In 15 or 20 years, on present trends, there will be in this country three and a half million Commonwealth immigrants and their descendants. That is not my figure. That is the official figure given to parliament by the spokesman of the Registrar General's Office.

There is no comparable official figure for the year 2000, but it must be in the region of five to seven million, approximately one-tenth of the whole population, and approaching that of Greater London. Of course, it will not be evenly distributed from Margate to Aberystwyth and from Penzance to Aberdeen. Whole areas, towns and parts of towns across England will be occupied by sections of the immigrant and immigrant-descended population.

As time goes on, the proportion of this total who are immigrant descendants, those born in England, who arrived here by exactly the same route as the rest of us, will rapidly increase. Already by 1985 the native-born would constitute the majority. It is this fact which creates the extreme urgency of action now, of just that kind of action which is hardest for politicians to take, action where the difficulties lie in the present but the evils to be prevented or minimised lie several parliaments ahead.

The natural and rational first question with a nation confronted by such a prospect is to ask: "How can its dimensions be reduced?" Granted it be not wholly preventable, can it be limited, bearing in mind that numbers are of the essence: the significance and consequences of an alien element introduced into a country or population are profoundly different according to whether that element is 1 per cent or 10 per cent.

The answers to the simple and rational question are equally simple and rational: by stopping, or virtually stopping, further inflow, and by promoting the maximum outflow. Both answers are part of the official policy of the Conservative Party.

It almost passes belief that at this moment 20 or 30 additional immigrant children are arriving from overseas in Wolverhampton alone every week - and that means 15 or 20 additional families a decade or two hence. Those whom the gods wish to destroy, they first make mad. We must be mad, literally mad, as a nation to be permitting the annual inflow of some 50,000 dependants, who are for the most part the material of the future growth of the immigrant-descended population. It is like watching a nation busily engaged in heaping up its own funeral pyre. So insane are we that we actually permit unmarried persons to immigrate for the purpose of founding a family with spouses and fiancés whom they have never seen.

Let no one suppose that the flow of dependants will automatically tail off. On the contrary, even at the present admission rate of only 5,000 a year by voucher, there is sufficient for a further 25,000 dependants per annum ad infinitum, without taking into account the huge reservoir of existing relations in this country - and I am making no allowance at all for fraudulent entry. In these circumstances nothing will suffice but that the total inflow for settlement should be reduced at once to negligible proportions, and that the necessary legislative and administrative measures be taken without delay.

I stress the words "for settlement." This has nothing to do with the entry of Commonwealth citizens, any more than of aliens, into this country, for the purposes of study or of improving their qualifications, like (for instance) the Commonwealth doctors who, to the advantage of their own countries, have enabled our hospital service to be expanded faster than would otherwise have been possible. They are not, and never have been, immigrants.

I turn to re-emigration. If all immigration ended tomorrow, the rate of growth of the immigrant and immigrant-descended population would be substantially reduced, but the prospective size of this element in the population would still leave the basic character of the national danger unaffected. This can only be tackled while a considerable proportion of the total still comprises persons who entered this country during the last ten years or so.

Hence the urgency of implementing now the second element of the Conservative Party's policy: the encouragement of re-emigration.

Nobody can make an estimate of the numbers which, with generous assistance, would choose either to return to their countries of origin or to go to other countries anxious to receive the manpower and the skills they represent.

Nobody knows, because no such policy has yet been attempted. I can only say that, even at present, immigrants in my own constituency from time to time come to me, asking if I can find them assistance to return home. If such a policy were adopted and pursued with the determination which the gravity of the alternative justifies, the resultant outflow could appreciably alter the prospects.

The third element of the Conservative Party's policy is that all who are in this country as citizens should be equal before the law and that there shall be no discrimination or difference made between them by public authority. As Mr Heath has put it we will have no "first-class citizens" and "second-class citizens." This does not mean that the immigrant and his descendent should be elevated into a privileged or special class or that the citizen should be denied his right to discriminate in the management of his own affairs between one fellow-citizen and another or that he should be subjected to imposition as to his reasons and motive for behaving in one lawful manner rather than another.
 
There could be no grosser misconception of the realities than is entertained by those who vociferously demand legislation as they call it "against discrimination", whether they be leader-writers of the same kidney and sometimes on the same newspapers which year after year in the 1930s tried to blind this country to the rising peril which confronted it, or archbishops who live in palaces, faring delicately with the bedclothes pulled right up over their heads. They have got it exactly and diametrically wrong.

The discrimination and the deprivation, the sense of alarm and of resentment, lies not with the immigrant population but with those among whom they have come and are still coming.

This is why to enact legislation of the kind before parliament at this moment is to risk throwing a match on to gunpowder. The kindest thing that can be said about those who propose and support it is that they know not what they do.

Nothing is more misleading than comparison between the Commonwealth immigrant in Britain and the American Negro. The Negro population of the United States, which was already in existence before the United States became a nation, started literally as slaves and were later given the franchise and other rights of citizenship, to the exercise of which they have only gradually and still incompletely come. The Commonwealth immigrant came to Britain as a full citizen, to a country which knew no discrimination between one citizen and another, and he entered instantly into the possession of the rights of every citizen, from the vote to free treatment under the National Health Service.

Whatever drawbacks attended the immigrants arose not from the law or from public policy or from administration, but from those personal circumstances and accidents which cause, and always will cause, the fortunes and experience of one man to be different from another's.

But while, to the immigrant, entry to this country was admission to privileges and opportunities eagerly sought, the impact upon the existing population was very different. For reasons which they could not comprehend, and in pursuance of a decision by default, on which they were never consulted, they found themselves made strangers in their own country.

They found their wives unable to obtain hospital beds in childbirth, their children unable to obtain school places, their homes and neighbourhoods changed beyond recognition, their plans and prospects for the future defeated; at work they found that employers hesitated to apply to the immigrant worker the standards of discipline and competence required of the native-born worker; they began to hear, as time went by, more and more voices which told them that they were now the unwanted. They now learn that a one-way privilege is to be established by act of parliament; a law which cannot, and is not intended to, operate to protect them or redress their grievances is to be enacted to give the stranger, the disgruntled and the agent-provocateur the power to pillory them for their private actions.

In the hundreds upon hundreds of letters I received when I last spoke on this subject two or three months ago, there was one striking feature which was largely new and which I find ominous. All Members of Parliament are used to the typical anonymous correspondent; but what surprised and alarmed me was the high proportion of ordinary, decent, sensible people, writing a rational and often well-educated letter, who believed that they had to omit their address because it was dangerous to have committed themselves to paper to a Member of Parliament agreeing with the views I had expressed, and that they would risk penalties or reprisals if they were known to have done so. The sense of being a persecuted minority which is growing among ordinary English people in the areas of the country which are affected is something that those without direct experience can hardly imagine.

I am going to allow just one of those hundreds of people to speak for me:

“Eight years ago in a respectable street in Wolverhampton a house was sold to a Negro. Now only one white (a woman old-age pensioner) lives there. This is her story. She lost her husband and both her sons in the war. So she turned her seven-roomed house, her only asset, into a boarding house. She worked hard and did well, paid off her mortgage and began to put something by for her old age. Then the immigrants moved in. With growing fear, she saw one house after another taken over. The quiet street became a place of noise and confusion. Regretfully, her white tenants moved out.

“The day after the last one left, she was awakened at 7am by two Negroes who wanted to use her 'phone to contact their employer. When she refused, as she would have refused any stranger at such an hour, she was abused and feared she would have been attacked but for the chain on her door. Immigrant families have tried to rent rooms in her house, but she always refused. Her little store of money went, and after paying rates, she has less than £2 per week. “She went to apply for a rate reduction and was seen by a young girl, who on hearing she had a seven-roomed house, suggested she should let part of it. When she said the only people she could get were Negroes, the girl said, "Racial prejudice won't get you anywhere in this country." So she went home.

“The telephone is her lifeline. Her family pay the bill, and help her out as best they can. Immigrants have offered to buy her house - at a price which the prospective landlord would be able to recover from his tenants in weeks, or at most a few months. She is becoming afraid to go out. Windows are broken. She finds excreta pushed through her letter box. When she goes to the shops, she is followed by children, charming, wide-grinning piccaninnies. They cannot speak English, but one word they know. "Racialist," they chant. When the new Race Relations Bill is passed, this woman is convinced she will go to prison. And is she so wrong? I begin to wonder.”

The other dangerous delusion from which those who are wilfully or otherwise blind to realities suffer, is summed up in the word "integration." To be integrated into a population means to become for all practical purposes indistinguishable from its other members.

Now, at all times, where there are marked physical differences, especially of colour, integration is difficult though, over a period, not impossible. There are among the Commonwealth immigrants who have come to live here in the last fifteen years or so, many thousands whose wish and purpose is to be integrated and whose every thought and endeavour is bent in that direction.

But to imagine that such a thing enters the heads of a great and growing majority of immigrants and their descendants is a ludicrous misconception, and a dangerous one.

We are on the verge here of a change. Hitherto it has been force of circumstance and of background which has rendered the very idea of integration inaccessible to the greater part of the immigrant population - that they never conceived or intended such a thing, and that their numbers and physical concentration meant the pressures towards integration which normally bear upon any small minority did not operate.

Now we are seeing the growth of positive forces acting against integration, of vested interests in the preservation and sharpening of racial and religious differences, with a view to the exercise of actual domination, first over fellow-immigrants and then over the rest of the population. The cloud no bigger than a man's hand, that can so rapidly overcast the sky, has been visible recently in Wolverhampton and has shown signs of spreading quickly. The words I am about to use, verbatim as they appeared in the local press on 17 February, are not mine, but those of a Labour Member of Parliament who is a minister in the present government:

'The Sikh communities' campaign to maintain customs inappropriate in Britain is much to be regretted. Working in Britain, particularly in the public services, they should be prepared to accept the terms and conditions of their employment. To claim special communal rights (or should one say rites?) leads to a dangerous fragmentation within society. This communalism is a canker; whether practised by one colour or another it is to be strongly condemned.'

All credit to John Stonehouse for having had the insight to perceive that, and the courage to say it.

For these dangerous and divisive elements the legislation proposed in the Race Relations Bill is the very pabulum they need to flourish. Here is the means of showing that the immigrant communities can organise to consolidate their members, to agitate and campaign against their fellow citizens, and to overawe and dominate the rest with the legal weapons which the ignorant and the ill-informed have provided. As I look ahead, I am filled with foreboding; like the Roman, I seem to see "the River Tiber foaming with much blood."

That tragic and intractable phenomenon which we watch with horror on the other side of the Atlantic but which there is interwoven with the history and existence of the States itself, is coming upon us here by our own volition and our own neglect. Indeed, it has all but come. In numerical terms, it will be of American proportions long before the end of the century.

Only resolute and urgent action will avert it even now. Whether there will be the public will to demand and obtain that action, I do not know. All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.
 
muslims are not a race , even tho the govt will class you a racist if you dare to make any form of downward remark regarding their beliefs
 
How is chanting anti Muslim stuff not racist?

Islam is not a race though, saying anti Muslim stuff may not be nice but its certainly not racist. Just because the people who follow it are mainly "non white" doesn't make it racist to disagree or say nasty things about it.

If we count Muslims as a race then villa fans would be a race too, and everytime I went the game and chanted things against man utd, Liverpool, arsenal etc i would be arrested for race crimes :-(
 
If there was an Atheist Party I'd consider voting for them. Knock all religious buildings down to start with.

All religion is about controlling the masses and all those that follow a religion are stupid and should wake up and smell the coffee because they're being duped. Plus if you look at the Catholic church, it's just a paedo club and I can't people allowing their kids to be held by a priest during their christening when it's common knowledge that the pope himself is a protector of paedophiles.

If anyone doesn't like what I just said then I make no apology as I'm free to say what I like, whether the law says I can or not.
 
Oh dear. That's a very small minded perspective IMHO. Knock all the buildings down? Wait a moment, we've been here before with that in this country...
 
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