have these so called plumbers damaged the industry,a straight YES or NO answers only,i have heard all the arguements ,some are genuine,hard working,good etc.it would be interesting aswell if you stated if you are an apprentice, qualified n.v.q level 2 & 3, or a fast tracker. my answer :YES. qualified level 3, through an apprenticeship
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View the thread, titled "fully qualified plumber in two weeks." which is posted in UK Plumbers Forums on UK Plumbers Forums.
E
Essex Fitters
level 2... still learning daily!
I believe there's two types of plumbers 'Juniors' & 'Master' and to become a master plumber is a life time goal and doesn't come easy
You cant learn much in two weeks, can you?
My father is a retired bricklayer, he done a 5yr apprenticeship, He spent last 10yrs of his working life fixing other peoples mistake (He still is in shock now about what people think they can do)....... One guy done a job for his neighbour (an extension) and it was hardly up! Any way the guy done a 5 week evening cause and had a ticket to do that kind of work!
I believe there's two types of plumbers 'Juniors' & 'Master' and to become a master plumber is a life time goal and doesn't come easy
You cant learn much in two weeks, can you?
My father is a retired bricklayer, he done a 5yr apprenticeship, He spent last 10yrs of his working life fixing other peoples mistake (He still is in shock now about what people think they can do)....... One guy done a job for his neighbour (an extension) and it was hardly up! Any way the guy done a 5 week evening cause and had a ticket to do that kind of work!
F
fuzzy
YES - But not their fault
YES - But not my fault
Toddyplumb
Gas Engineer
Yes - not their fault
Time served, ONC, HNC, OU
Time served, ONC, HNC, OU
P
PlumbBobBob
YES-the fault of the training providers
D
dontknowitall
I must admit I'm fairly ignorant of many building regulations and have to try and use common sense when required.*
An example happened today: I was instructed by the customer to create a new hot and cold water supply to a different part of the house. Seems easy enough; just drill a few holes through the joists, push some pipe in and fill it with water.
BUT, the joists had already had holes drilled through for central heating under one floor board (four holes for this due to the radiator placings) and there was another hefty notch for all the cables. I decided it would be better to lift another board to place the hot and cold supply.
How much are you allowed to remove? There are measurements for where you can cut holes/notches and how big depending on the size of joist. There was also a brick in the way. Could I remove the brick or should I notch instead? I'd no idea what to do. So I guessed.
Luckily for me, an experienced electrician was also there so after I'd had a good think I asked him and he told me that in this instance I could remove the brick and then told me where to drill the holes to ensure all was safe.
However, if he wasn't there I'd have guessed and tried to use common sense (in this case I'd have done what he suggested as it happens.) It does concern me that I've been let loose to dig up peoples' houses without PROPER teaching. So far I don't think I've been dangerous but I don't know for 100% sure. I'm also lucky that I'm not too proud or frightened to ask more experience tradesmen for help and advice and view this as common sense.
* Perhaps I'm too hard on myself as I'm very self critical in what I do, including things like how neatly I've soldered and how tidy I am when working.
An example happened today: I was instructed by the customer to create a new hot and cold water supply to a different part of the house. Seems easy enough; just drill a few holes through the joists, push some pipe in and fill it with water.
BUT, the joists had already had holes drilled through for central heating under one floor board (four holes for this due to the radiator placings) and there was another hefty notch for all the cables. I decided it would be better to lift another board to place the hot and cold supply.
How much are you allowed to remove? There are measurements for where you can cut holes/notches and how big depending on the size of joist. There was also a brick in the way. Could I remove the brick or should I notch instead? I'd no idea what to do. So I guessed.
Luckily for me, an experienced electrician was also there so after I'd had a good think I asked him and he told me that in this instance I could remove the brick and then told me where to drill the holes to ensure all was safe.
However, if he wasn't there I'd have guessed and tried to use common sense (in this case I'd have done what he suggested as it happens.) It does concern me that I've been let loose to dig up peoples' houses without PROPER teaching. So far I don't think I've been dangerous but I don't know for 100% sure. I'm also lucky that I'm not too proud or frightened to ask more experience tradesmen for help and advice and view this as common sense.
* Perhaps I'm too hard on myself as I'm very self critical in what I do, including things like how neatly I've soldered and how tidy I am when working.
yes - some have damaged the trade and at the same time no. ive worked with a few fast trackers some have been really bad one or two have been pretty good,
im not apprentice trained although i have my level 2 plus my domestic gas quals and lpg.
did them all part time whilst working with a time served plumber, he set me loose on a new build after only 6 months. turned up at the job i got out he handed me some tools and materials and said, do the 1st fix for the rads, ill pick you up at 5. i was shaking when he buggered off, but ive now been in the trade 5 years ish, have one builder i work with who is 25years time served and he has told me im one of the best hes seen.
i think it depends on the person doing the course, one fella could have a habbit of bodging things whereas another person could be in the mind set of perfect is the only thing acceptable. when i was doing my courses i met some right idiots that were already trading as self employed. one of them couldnt solder a joint that was water tight.
in all honesty its down to the person doing the course, he has to have the right mental attitude aswell as the skills.
im not apprentice trained although i have my level 2 plus my domestic gas quals and lpg.
did them all part time whilst working with a time served plumber, he set me loose on a new build after only 6 months. turned up at the job i got out he handed me some tools and materials and said, do the 1st fix for the rads, ill pick you up at 5. i was shaking when he buggered off, but ive now been in the trade 5 years ish, have one builder i work with who is 25years time served and he has told me im one of the best hes seen.
i think it depends on the person doing the course, one fella could have a habbit of bodging things whereas another person could be in the mind set of perfect is the only thing acceptable. when i was doing my courses i met some right idiots that were already trading as self employed. one of them couldnt solder a joint that was water tight.
in all honesty its down to the person doing the course, he has to have the right mental attitude aswell as the skills.
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P
PLUMB-KING
The theory side of plumbing/heating is easy to learn & understand,putting it into practice it a totally different thing.
To be qualified in two/three years,I would say yes in theory only,but in practically speaking ( doing the job ) my answer is no not in two weeks!!
To be qualified in two/three years,I would say yes in theory only,but in practically speaking ( doing the job ) my answer is no not in two weeks!!
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T
tamz
I'd have to say, in the main yes.
Serving your time is not only about learning how to be a plumber or how to pass an exam. It is about learning a whole multi trade skill set which is (or never has been) taught in a classroom.
1st year apprentice (quick learner)😉
Btw
I had a right mental attitude when i was younger (especially on the sites and renovations) but the fuse takes longer to burn as i get older.
Serving your time is not only about learning how to be a plumber or how to pass an exam. It is about learning a whole multi trade skill set which is (or never has been) taught in a classroom.
1st year apprentice (quick learner)😉
Btw
I had a right mental attitude when i was younger (especially on the sites and renovations) but the fuse takes longer to burn as i get older.
Course you're not qualified to call yourself a plumber after 2 weeks. Silly question really. Or 2 months, or two years.
In the US you have journeymen and master tradesmen, I don't know if they have a grey are in between, or if they wake up one day and they're no longer a journeyman but a master!?
Anyway in this business you never stop learning, the minute you think you know it all, Karma will come and bite you on the ars*.
But after TWO poxy weeks, I wouldn't let you change the water on my kids goldfish, let alone come swinging in my home with a wrench and a blow torch. Yeeehaaa!
Abridged: Yes - NVQ Lvl 2 - plus various gas qualifications, solar, ground & air source, unvented, few other random quals too. Served my aprentice time working for time served plumber/heating engineer (my darling father!)
In the US you have journeymen and master tradesmen, I don't know if they have a grey are in between, or if they wake up one day and they're no longer a journeyman but a master!?
Anyway in this business you never stop learning, the minute you think you know it all, Karma will come and bite you on the ars*.
But after TWO poxy weeks, I wouldn't let you change the water on my kids goldfish, let alone come swinging in my home with a wrench and a blow torch. Yeeehaaa!
Abridged: Yes - NVQ Lvl 2 - plus various gas qualifications, solar, ground & air source, unvented, few other random quals too. Served my aprentice time working for time served plumber/heating engineer (my darling father!)
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K
kirkgas
yes (for a 2 week course)
time served to advanced craft
time served to advanced craft
T
tiling spread
Im a plasterer 8 years in too the trade this year and im still lerning each day.
i spent years working hard with a plasterer kepted my nose clean and head down studied
started as a tea boy.
and some of the work iv seen from the TWO week courseers well im still going.
i still get thrown back now and then as I bet some of you plumbers do
well after i failed my induction test the uther week (for my plumbing course)
im getting my nut down and getting on with it as i have one more chance at it.
well when i put my tattoo gun away LOL
im in the plumbing game for the long run and im going too do it TOO
i spent years working hard with a plasterer kepted my nose clean and head down studied
started as a tea boy.
and some of the work iv seen from the TWO week courseers well im still going.
i still get thrown back now and then as I bet some of you plumbers do
well after i failed my induction test the uther week (for my plumbing course)
im getting my nut down and getting on with it as i have one more chance at it.
well when i put my tattoo gun away LOL
im in the plumbing game for the long run and im going too do it TOO
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T
tamz
I actually got 3 distinctions for that (still pride of place in a frame in my ma's front room alongside the 3 inter collage shields lol).
1st ever in the collage. Fk knows how cos i never read a book or carried a pencil until my time was out😛
Think i just had a good memory and a major hunger to make cash (married at 18).
1st solo heating job at 17 making twice the money of most by 19 (with a day off for collage)
Went to collage until i was 24 -5 because i liked a 4 day week and had a desire to learn🙂😀
K
kirkgas
or because you kept getting held back cause you couldnt finish the work!!!!!!
H
Harveys1
Yes they are damaging the industry
I have been an employer of over 10 staff for over 15 yrs and in our 30yr of trading and have always had 1 or 2 aprenrances at a time and still do.
They I am gad to say have all been a credit to me but I employed them for 1 yr before putting them into collage then after thier time I upgraded them to a plumber improver although some moan then 1yr later to a plumber
They need the exeriance, there is no classroom that can replace hands on
The classroom is great but only alongside the hands on
I have been an employer of over 10 staff for over 15 yrs and in our 30yr of trading and have always had 1 or 2 aprenrances at a time and still do.
They I am gad to say have all been a credit to me but I employed them for 1 yr before putting them into collage then after thier time I upgraded them to a plumber improver although some moan then 1yr later to a plumber
They need the exeriance, there is no classroom that can replace hands on
The classroom is great but only alongside the hands on
K
kay-jay
yes - but only some of them! as said before it depends on the individual. i was a fast tracker😱 but i wasn't about to let anything get in the way of achieving my goals. i have nvq 2 and 3 and unvented ticket and i'm now self employed. i know there is no substitute for experience and i recognise that there are gaps in my skill set but i know what my limitations are and certainly won't undertake any work that i'm not competent to do.
i suppose i'm one of the lucky ones because i work one day a week with a time served plumber and heating engineer and i'm builing my portfolio of gas work experience ahead of the acs. this also gives me the opportunity to take on bigger and more complicated jobs myself as i can get advice and assistance when required.
i would have preferred the traditional apprentice route but it wasn't an option for me. i am however getting the required experience albeit quite slowly.
KJ
i suppose i'm one of the lucky ones because i work one day a week with a time served plumber and heating engineer and i'm builing my portfolio of gas work experience ahead of the acs. this also gives me the opportunity to take on bigger and more complicated jobs myself as i can get advice and assistance when required.
i would have preferred the traditional apprentice route but it wasn't an option for me. i am however getting the required experience albeit quite slowly.
KJ
YES - through apprenticeship and gas qualified learned my trade at a good company with some good tradesmen who taught me alot of stuff mostly worked on commercial though, now I'm out on my own mostly the domestic market n its a all new so needing to read up on regs etc so I'm out of my comfort zone basically but the money is better and I'm competent so all's good 🙂 I believe we don't get payed enough for the work you do when you work for a company so that's why I went self employed.
I know that I am still inexperienced but I know alot of good plumbers so any big jobs I get like heating systems etc I can get someone in to help me who is more experienced.
I know that I am still inexperienced but I know alot of good plumbers so any big jobs I get like heating systems etc I can get someone in to help me who is more experienced.
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tamz
ive noticed a sharp drop of in small jobs over the last year which i atribute to the rise of plumbing insurance scemes to get these jobs covered as cheap as possible these companies will take on anyone who has the right qualifications as this will cover them for liabilty
as they only pay on completed jobs and the guys have to go back if its wrong they dont care what their skill levels are
unfortunatly this is a world of box ticking
ive heard through the grape vine some of these companies pay as little as 25 quid a call ,pot luck if you get a 5 min or 2 hour job
as they only pay on completed jobs and the guys have to go back if its wrong they dont care what their skill levels are
unfortunatly this is a world of box ticking
ive heard through the grape vine some of these companies pay as little as 25 quid a call ,pot luck if you get a 5 min or 2 hour job
F
fuzzy
i wouldnt say it was easy to understand. its easy to learn a minimum and then go out and make a mess
think there is 2 types of people, people who take pride in their work and admire there work after they have finished it, wanting to better themselfs and the others who are only interested in the wage at the end of the week
F
fuzzy
well said quigley67, tradesmen and chancers is another way of putting it
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