Is it the start of the end for Gas Engineers?

[splinterdream]

FirstlyI dont want to be all doom and gloom but feel i want to share my position and see what everyone else thinks.

I joined BG 18 years ago and did a gas apprentiship. I didn't really want to be a gas engineer but was told 'if you get your foot in the door'. I joined a company which i believed would not just employ me as an engineer but doors would open to other opportunities if i worked hard and did as i was told. After 9 years with the company i realised that our last governments policy of encouraging everyone to get a degree meant i would never be able to move jobs internally because i was always being interviewed against graduates., so i left and took a pay and conditions drop to work for a smaller (10 engineers) company that had ambition and may recognise my ambitions. That company has hardly increased the pay in 9 years, has downsized by a half, holiday allowance at the minimum 20 days and not changed and just seems to bully the workforce. We even had to work the extra bank holiday being told it wasn't an official BH. So i decided 7 months ago to start up on my own looking to October as my start up date but the more i look at things the more my condidence waivers as to whether there is a market for me. I feel my 9 years doing breakdowns and services with no additional training has left me behind. I know nothing about renewables. I look at the local directory for advertising around here and there are 8 gas adverts. People around here are dong servicing for £35 and CP12's for £50 all in. With 5 and now 10 year manufacturers warranties, Corgi targeting insurance scheme sales using registration details firms have been obliged to supplement with new installs, fuel prices rocketing making customers less likely to get a boiler serviced, and lets face it, most modern boilers will work no problem for years without being serviced, is the bottom dropping out of the market for gas engineers? I read gas installer and all i see in training centres adverts 'get your acs and become a gas engineer'. I live in the midlands and i just see too many gas vans driving around. I earned 25k gross last year have not had a pay rise in 5 years, no pension and 20 days annual leave and i feel its not enough for the job i do. I read an article about a postman stealing parcels the other day, it said the 30k a year postman stole...........what......how much!!!! a postman earns 30k It took me 3 and half years in my training, 5 years before fully confident, exam after exam after exam. Customers getting more demanding, new boilers to swat up on so i can do my job. The young lads I trained 5 years ago thinking they're going to look at doing something different and I'm seriously considering it. If I'd have took a job at Tesco 18 years ago I know I wouldn't be stacking shelves right now on a fraction more pay than when i started.

Am i wrong though? am i expecting too much and therefore being greedy? I feel our job should now be paying 35k a year basic minimum. Are other people getting paid this and I'm grosely underpaid? I read someones comments on a previous thread that gas will be around for more years than he will be working therefore he is not worried about the end, but will the work and therefore the money. I feel de-valued and would probably give anything right now to be a slave for the corprate on a few grand extra and thank them each month for the job.

Would love to know your thoughts, would especially love to know a range of what everyone is getting paid if you dont mind giving up that info

 

[fuzzy]

i have felt the same at times. why do some jobs with little stress get as much? doesnt seem right. only advantage to a trade money wise is you can top up with thumbers, but you goto work for them, its not free money is it?

 

[Blackcatgas]

I agree with everything that youve said, my last year on the books for a large plumbing firm in Notts in 2007 I earned nearly 35k, I was out of the house at 7am and back in the house at 7pm.
Iam self employed now for the 2nd time and dont earn anywhere near that.
I just take everyday as it comes, chin up mate.

 

[metaldust9]

i think your just the type of person that should go on your own with all your experience ,the market is crying out for proper people who can diagnose and do servicing cos i think that is were the money is if your good and dont rip people off you,ll get a good name for yourself and make a good living and be able to have more hols, days off without being hammeredif ye work on £120 a day to start with thats over £25,000 a yr and you,ll earn more to have time off and pay tax people are not earning as much cos they want the big jobs and theres not that much money in them as av found i find now the smaller jobs bring in more over a week coupled in with the plumbing

 

[ecowarm]

I agree with you splinterdream, the fast track courses are killing the plumbing/ heating and gas market. Just too many at it now everybody and his dog wants to be a plumber/ gas eng. It will be a struggle to get your name out there but with your experience it will get you work over the semi skilled part part trained so called gas engineer. Wish you good look and hope it goes well.

 

[gaspastemania]

the problem i find where i live is that gas engineers on the books also do alot of works in the eves for less money than self emplyed peeps as they dont have the over heads.I do agree that on the books earnings should easily go into the 30 grand a year mark with all the hassle of it .

 

[Puddle]

It is not the end no,work is still there
Think the main problem for us small heating businesses is the service contracts the big boys are offering
and the failure of set standard to carry out certain works,especially in the gas industry

imho

 

[stevetheplumber]

i agree with all youve said for the first time in 35 years im struggling to find any work all the small works have been snapped up by the insurance schemes boilers are comming with long gaurantees and extended warranties if you say the average life of a combi is ten years and its gauranteed for five of them thats half the work out there lost
ive even tried getting a job on one of the large companies that do the insurance work but the money is an insult £85 a day and bonus if you can do 9 plus calls a day

 

[villa_tom]

i agree with all youve said for the first time in 35 years im struggling to find any work all the small works have been snapped up by the insurance schemes boilers are comming with long gaurantees and extended warranties if you say the average life of a combi is ten years and its gauranteed for five of them thats half the work out there lost
ive even tried getting a job on one of the large companies that do the insurance work but the money is an insult £85 a day and bonus if you can do 9 plus calls a day

£85 a day, thats a joke mate. I'd ask them if they missed a 1 off the front of that.

 

[gaspastemania]

Problem being villa tom its not a joke , an engineer i know who works for a large gas company through the day on the books gets paid well does work in his own time local to me . charges half the price i do £20 for a servve install gas hob £40 etc how can you compete with that

 

[REDSAW]

there driving the prices down in front of our eyes, you can gurantee some one in the background is cashing in.
its going bulk sales.imo.
i say lets retaliate in numbers and bring them down....

 

[unguided1]

I would say the thread title is wrong and for my self being self employed for over 20 years it has always been tough I think that if you have had an employer for years, you have been living in a cotton wool cocoon. You have given years of loyalty to your firm and now the going is getting tough your firm is showing its loyalty to you.
I agree that these fast track courses are damaging the industry so I would say what are you going to do about it, time to make your voice heard and protest

 

[Ian10261]

£85 a day, thats a joke mate. I'd ask them if they missed a 1 off the front of that.

And it still wouldn't be anywhere near the mark!!!!

 

[Gar73]

Its been getting worse slowly, I feel the same. The jobs knackered.

http://www.ukplumbersforums.co.uk/central-heating-forum/22462-looking-career-change.html

 

[woodsy]

Agree with all that said except metaldust £ 120 a day gives over £25,000 - what about £50 -100 diesel a week , hoilday pay, insurances, gassafe, van,recalibartion costs, advertising, accountant etc. Even as a sole trader you require a minimum of approx £10000 a year on top of your earnings. Its not all doom and gloom but its definately a time of survival by making a wage and hopefully waiting for some good times to return. I agree that generally we are underpaid in comparison to many jobs but while ever training centres are promising untold riches and not reality then wages will not climb to the level they should.

 

[diamondgas]

If I may put my peneth worth in:
I spent 25 yrs with B-Gas, 5yrs Local Authority & the last 3 years Self employed. Best thing I ever did was go self employed. I didn't do it for the money however and that's where i think I'm fortunate. At the time I did my sums and reckoned I needed to clear 14k to survive bare minimum! I still think that, so anything over and above is a bonus. My ex colleagues at BG are now on 30k, they don't get the freedom I have. Why are folk so hept up on making buckets load of money? 33 years under my belt and i still like meeting people and fixing boilers! AND I get paid for it... hehehe!

Yes I'm fortunate not to have the overheads many people have, but that has been my choice; as it is the choice of folk who decide to credit card to the max!!

As long as there is mains gas supplied to homes there'll be a place for the Gasman! Krikey I'm starting to sound like an old phart!!!

You want to know what I make splinterdream? I have made more than my original targets ... "enough" and then some! Plus the added bonus of finishing most days when i want, not working till stupid o'clock at night and I get weekends to be with the most important people in my life ... ! That is my pay, a great deal more value than money! Self employment affords me that! yey!!!

Steppin down from the soap box!! LOL

 

[Pssst]

I feel your pain. I trained with BG when it was a mega nationalised industry. They had the best and produced the best trained engineers. Industry sold off..went down the drain. There was no more room for career development and it started to beat its own engineers by selling premium heating systems then farming them out to contractors to fix,many of whom were clueless. Once theyd wrecked the customers house,they then sent muggins round to try and sort it out. I got fed up with it and left. I know they are still a bully boy company who drive their engineers hard to fraud customers with un-necessary sales,hard driven productivity targets etc etc.

Really,many lads are their own worst enemies. They undercut eachother to get work. If a solicitor quoted for work and you said to him,well the company down the road said they'd do it for x,the guy would just say..well you must go there then. But what do some of us do ? stand their wringing our hands,heads bowed and say,well go on then I'll match it/do it cheaper. Have some pride in your skills and sell them for what they are worth or you will soon be working for sod all.

 

[gaspastemania]

I feel your pain. I trained with BG when it was a mega nationalised industry. They had the best and produced the best trained engineers. Industry sold off..went down the drain. There was no more room for career development and it started to beat its own engineers by selling premium heating systems then farming them out to contractors to fix,many of whom were clueless. Once theyd wrecked the customers house,they then sent muggins round to try and sort it out. I got fed up with it and left. I know they are still a bully boy company who drive their engineers hard to fraud customers with un-necessary sales,hard driven productivity targets etc etc.

Really,many lads are their own worst enemies. They undercut eachother to get work. If a solicitor quoted for work and you said to him,well the company down the road said they'd do it for x,the guy would just say..well you must go there then. But what do some of us do ? stand their wringing our hands,heads bowed and say,well go on then I'll match it/do it cheaper. Have some pride in your skills and sell them for what they are worth or you will soon be working for sod all.

Can you tell me when they produced the best and trained the best ?As in when did you work for them ? The bitish gas engineer we had around the family home 20 years ago nearly killed us all ! Broke a flue liner off the top of a bbu leaving it to pour carbon monoxide into the front room . We were collapsing all over the place , headaches and nausea for about two weeks before we got it sorted ,,, the engineer by the way was a direct bg employee so not always the best !!!

 

[Pssst]

I started with the BG Corp in 1980 and yes i maintain that they had the best training available,the best research and development and the BG Corp were world respected for their expertise and R&D.

You might as well say Virgin trains are bad just because one of their drivers jumps a red light (SPAD)

Natural gas normally only produces CO2 + H20 . CO is mainly produced in an Oxygen deficient atmosphere.

In my more than 30 years experience i have never killed/injured anyone,nor have i had any justifiable complaint held against me.

 

[mfgs]

I agree BG used to have the best training etc, that doeasnt mean you dont get a fair few wallys still out there though. Unfortunately now they themselves fast track engineers through the apprenticeship and are out working on their own far too soon. It has just got too profit driven at the end of the day and the quality has been affected.

 

[gaspastemania]

Pssst not having a go by the way was more curious about your opinion . Im aware you do get few idiots get them everywhere but i think the days of bg being the best are over as mfgs says profit driven more now.

 

[Puddle]

Would agree BG used to have a great training system and good set up

And would also agree the BG set up now is a completely different cow and the milk is well skimed

imo

 

[the baker]

You obviously have a wealth of experience and feel you in a dead end job and if you make a mistake and top some one that would be a correct description of our line of work, and the fact you are possibly under tremendous pressure from your employer wont convince the HSE/ the Judge/who ever that you made an honest mistake and reduce your prison sentence.The problem with this industry is simply that we don’t stand together. We are a dead cert for the “divide and rule brigade” to give us a regular annual rogering at the end of March, and as a bonus we have a forced holiday every five years.Tim

 

[diamondgas]

Like pssst my route's are Northen Gas (Old BG) based. Joined in 78 straight from school and started a 3 year apprenticeship. That's 3 years of block release college and on the job training with the qualified, about 50/50 I'd say. Granted is was all aspects of the gas industry from distribution to commercial. I doubt the training it as thorough now. Maybe some of you newbies will let me know. One of the greatest assets then was the shop floor depot's, where you could ask the more experienced for guidance as well as pick up tips .... Alas they have long gone. Thankfully though the likes of this forum have sprung up which I see as taking the place of the old depot's. It's the likes of this that will keep the gas engineer, and plumbers, professional in my view; a place where we can come and ask questions as well as share experience. And importantly give support!

 

[Toned.f]

Like pssst my route's are Northen Gas (Old BG) based. Joined in 78 straight from school and started a 3 year apprenticeship. That's 3 years of block release college and on the job training with the qualified, about 50/50 I'd say. Granted is was all aspects of the gas industry from distribution to commercial. I doubt the training it as thorough now. Maybe some of you newbies will let me know. One of the greatest assets then was the shop floor depot's, where you could ask the more experienced for guidance as well as pick up tips .... Alas they have long gone. Thankfully though the likes of this forum have sprung up which I see as taking the place of the old depot's. It's the likes of this that will keep the gas engineer, and plumbers, professional in my view; a place where we can come and ask questions as well as share experience. And importantly give support!

Ditto Diamond Gas....Joined N.E.G.B ( North Eastern Gas Board). as an apprentice Service Engineer in 1977. We had a habit of changing our name every few years, NEGAS, North Eastern Gas, British Gas North Eastern and then privatisation and then hacked up into various bits where engineers could choose to either go with Transco or stay with BG.