This advert has been in our local newspaper for a few weeks now
It surely can't be done for these prices.
It surely can't be done for these prices.
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- Thread starter johnnyplumb
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no chance, i did a combi combi swap for a mate, fitted a worcester greenstar 28i junior combi for him. did prices at cost and no labour charges as hes returning the favor, it cost over £1350. well over
cheapest worcester combi is junior 24, costs around £800 with flue & clock. no ones gonna work for nothing.
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PlumbBobBob
it'll be a get a foot in the door price, extra for pipe, will need flushing, chemicals, take away the waste and anything else they can get away with.
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kirkgas
if the property meets the exemption criteria for needing a HE boiler it is possible to fit an SE boiler in a swap over in 3-4 hrs so if you can buy a boiler for £400 odd, then yes it can, or if an HE is already in then how long would it take to sway a boiler for an exact same model? we used to do warranty work for various manufacturers and got 3.5hrs labour to change a boiler, ok you use the old flue hole and existing jig so again yes it can, obviously anything else needed gets more cash, how you do you sales pitch is up to you, this is how they do theirs, from the landline they must be in Bellshill area a few miles from me but i dont know them, nice free advert you are giving them by leaving the phone number in!!!!!!!!!!!!
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kirkgas
HE comb's are available in your area from about £400-600, the advert doesnt say he is fitting a worcester, look in the Glasgow Evening Times and you will see a car for sale with tax and MOT for £500 which is legal but it wont be as good as the Lamborgini spyder my son has just bought, but different cars for different people
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kirkgas
As above, you can get a boiler, flue and clock for £500, so £300 a day aint a bad job is it.
Plus all the extras they would be sold.
Plus all the extras they would be sold.
yeah, advert says vokera or worcester, there might be a chance of doing it with a vokera but your certainly not getting a worcester. dont know how much the cheapest vokera combi is but if his prices are genuine then his profits must be low.
i take it you bought it for him, this teaching game must be paying, i must be in the wrong job
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PlumbBobBob
mostly leaflets done about 3/4 of my local area now and starting to pick up. i've got six jobs lined up to do in the next two weeks. got a few regular custards now and getting some referrals as well. busiest i've been for a while and long may it continue in an upwards direction.
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kirkgas
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kirkgas
nice to hear its working for you, and long may it continue, all it takes sometimes is to get your foot in the door and it can create another load of work, i dont know the £800 boiler swap guy but IF he does a decent job for customers who simply wont pay £2k for a boiler install, with weather compensator and control upgrades then he will get more work from them and theirs so its not up to us to slag them
Cheapest Vokera round here will cost you £600 with the vat, pipework & fittings generally even on a relativley straight swop would be minimum of £30 - £50. He is obviously one of the idiots who doesn't value his skill and wants to work for peanuts or a clever marketing ploy to get a foot in the door.
He'll end up wasting his own time as surely the punters are not that stupid to fall for this advert
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PlumbBobBob
aye, i wonder who's the stupidest, the installer who's running the advert or the punters that are falling for it.
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kirkgas
there are tons of guys who can do a combi swap in 3-5 hrs so £300-400 for that kind of money is not too bad, wait till tam sees this thread he used to do boilers in half a shift, mind you that was in the 70's when he was fit
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tamz
There was a woman on last week who got a boiler service for cheap through a groupon ad. It ended up with a bill for £1300 to fix a leak!
That is some big footwork lol
Yeh I agree but I am not into that in and out thing (age probably) I like to do my thing my way if it takes 1 or 2 or 3 hours then so be it
PS I am not sure if I am as strong as tamz as I used to drag the old boilers not lift them
PS I am not sure if I am as strong as tamz as I used to drag the old boilers not lift them
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kirkgas
ooohhh tam will bite you for this comment, i'm telling you there are tons of guys who can/could do it, and leave a top class job, depoends whats in and what goes in, its all about being organised, doing one thing on auto pilot, starting the next one with one hand and thinking about the thing after that, loads of guys in a 2 man team used to do a great one day install on an indirect system with a new cylinder and control pack, with F&E tank in the loft and quite often a new BBU
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tamz
Can still do them in a day with a powerflush, gas upgrade, condensate, and wash the dishes!
Fit to drap!
On the other hand i'm doing a bbu to regular swap for an old couple atm so had to keep the heat on for them.
Yesterday hung the boiler and ran the pipes just ready to T in, new pump and S plan on and gas run halfway while the boy played at powerflushing and blethered to the old guy.
Cut the old one off today and swapped the pipes about, wired it up and got it running by about 3.
Take the old fire and boiler out tomorrow and brick up and plaster the fireplace.
Sometimes you just need to pace yourself :smile:
Fit to drap!
On the other hand i'm doing a bbu to regular swap for an old couple atm so had to keep the heat on for them.
Yesterday hung the boiler and ran the pipes just ready to T in, new pump and S plan on and gas run halfway while the boy played at powerflushing and blethered to the old guy.
Cut the old one off today and swapped the pipes about, wired it up and got it running by about 3.
Take the old fire and boiler out tomorrow and brick up and plaster the fireplace.
Sometimes you just need to pace yourself :smile:
if your working on less than a £200 profit margin, you would need to be doing them in 3-5hrs better to charge more and spend longer at it.
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mak
customers like to think there money has been well spent. stay longer, charge more and everyones happy.
I worked on the EAGA contract a couple of years back, I reckon for a straight combi swap, 4 hours is average, thats all on my own, no flushing, just drain down, cut off pipework, remove and fit new boiler then repipe, fill and test. If you are taking longer on price work you aint gonna earn any money, many a time I used to fit my next days boiler too and have the next day off.
I must say though that if i have a good price in for the job, I make it last the day.
I must say though that if i have a good price in for the job, I make it last the day.
Many customers know you are messing about making the job longer, and would rather you hurry up and go so they can have the doors shut and keep warm.
£800 minus 20% tax etc. Leaves him £640, it is impossible to be doing for that. So it must be a con, either they are not Worcester or Vokera or price is wrong.
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gaspastemania
sit in the van and have a siesta then pop back in later for a brew etc etc till 4 o clock then
Thats nowadays as I work for myself and do now contract or subby work.
But you cannot be on a combi swap more than half a day when working for companies. I know guys who are doing combi swaps for firms now for as little as £120, and they reckon other firms are paying less.
But you cannot be on a combi swap more than half a day when working for companies. I know guys who are doing combi swaps for firms now for as little as £120, and they reckon other firms are paying less.
Not in my case, I rely on more work and good reviews from them, but you have to work to the price you have quoted, if you are not making much then you get a rush on, it doesnt mean its any worse than the next guy who is standing there scratching there bum and picking there nose half the day.
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gaspastemania
It can be with some fitters ,but i have worked for companies where i have done boiler change and spent most of the day faffing about and yet its still same quality install as a 4 hour install.
Plumbing fitting is easy .
lets not get out of the facts here. Some installers will change or swap as most folk call it a combi in 3 - 4 hours but where is the service they provide .
I value my customers I value my reputation I have an apprentice who is nearing 7 years (he is not an apprentice anymore)
I provide a service like most decent folk do who provide a valuable service
Combi swaps for 200 notes do not strike it for me
I value my customers I value my reputation I have an apprentice who is nearing 7 years (he is not an apprentice anymore)
I provide a service like most decent folk do who provide a valuable service
Combi swaps for 200 notes do not strike it for me
I dont imagine many sole trader guys are gonna do them for £200, but offer that to a subby or full time guy and they would rip your arm off.
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gaspastemania
I do straight swaps as a sub for min £250+ and not fussed if there for 4 hours or 8 but can still do them in 4 hours exact same quality as an 8 hour shift, if the firm was more organised would be up for two a day but they are a shambles at organisation.
Privately i would plod my way through it as would charge more to be honest .
Privately i would plod my way through it as would charge more to be honest .
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tamz
You're right Kirk. There are a lot of guys who can do full installs in a day and leave a perfect job. I'm getting past that carry on now but as you say it is all about forward thinking.
There is also a lot of halfwits and house wreckers out there too.
It is a hard way to make a living.
Vokera 25he band B from mr ch £510 including flue and clock. £25 for fittings still leaves £265 (£220 after tax). (Sabre (vokera) 25he band B £449 so around £270 after tax)
If he is vat registered it works out around £180 after tax with the vokera. Still an easy shift for a busy fool doing the bare minimum. Everything else is an extra and there will be extras on most.
There is also a lot of halfwits and house wreckers out there too.
It is a hard way to make a living.
Vokera 25he band B from mr ch £510 including flue and clock. £25 for fittings still leaves £265 (£220 after tax). (Sabre (vokera) 25he band B £449 so around £270 after tax)
If he is vat registered it works out around £180 after tax with the vokera. Still an easy shift for a busy fool doing the bare minimum. Everything else is an extra and there will be extras on most.
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jase158
On this case I notice that nearly all builders and kitchen fitters are gas safe registered these days, so imagine from that point of view, they shove it in, in a few hours, few of their mates helping and £200 is easy money to them.
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jase158
And how often do you have like for like? maybe they turn around and say ooooh, we will have to move that due to regulations, It should be on the other wall.
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mitchellplumber
Wether or not he is doing it in 3 hours, this price is crazy! He can't be cleaning the system. He wont afford a bottle of anti-freeze inhibitor. He must be laying on the extras once he's in. Advert text should probably read "prices starting from £800. With that profit, he's going to have a wee shock when the Gas course's come back around. Ouch!!
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PlumbBobBob
just noticed in the ad that it says they are corgi registered engineers and there is a gas safe logo covering all angles i suppose.
just realised this, must delete part of phone numbers can't be giving free advert to the competition.
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kirkgas
you take the 400 for the boiler off the 800 and get taxed at 20% of 400(less any other deductables he can claim) which leaves him what ever, if its enough for him, with some extras then fair play to him
Length of each pipe £20, few fittings £5, filling loop £7, Inhibitor £15, Condense £10. Cheapest Vokera £600 with flue. Leaves £143 minus 20% = £115. Thats no programmer and no logging the boiler on Gas Safe.
Cannot see it being done cheaper.
Cannot see it being done cheaper.
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tamz
No inhibitor or cleanser. Pipes in the same order (west of scotland is vokera land so probably same everything, lift off on) at most half a dozen elbows and unions (£3) a couple of cuttings of pipe out the scrap bag (0.5kg ..£2). 3m of 3/4" overflow, 4 elbows an inch and half tee and a reducer to 3/4" ...£6 so £11 -15 tops for materials
Band B Vokera (still sold and legal up here) £510 leaves £265 minus 20% = £212.
Not a lot but beats sitting in the house watching Jeremy Kyle!
I don't agree with the pricing but if you are a one man band forced into working for yourself because there are no jobs about, then the money is better than what you are used to. Customer service will be bad to non existent.
People get what they pay for and the service and quality of work to suit but there are a helluva lot of people counting the coppers these days.
The good times are over for heating and they will never come back regardless of BG and the like still charging £3k for the same thing.
Most people know they are getting ripped off from them but they still choose to go there because they will always answer the phone and be there straight away if anything goes wrong.
The independent guy has to be very good and well recommended to get in with a shout with a decent price or be signed up as a credit broker :wink:
Band B Vokera (still sold and legal up here) £510 leaves £265 minus 20% = £212.
Not a lot but beats sitting in the house watching Jeremy Kyle!
I don't agree with the pricing but if you are a one man band forced into working for yourself because there are no jobs about, then the money is better than what you are used to. Customer service will be bad to non existent.
People get what they pay for and the service and quality of work to suit but there are a helluva lot of people counting the coppers these days.
The good times are over for heating and they will never come back regardless of BG and the like still charging £3k for the same thing.
Most people know they are getting ripped off from them but they still choose to go there because they will always answer the phone and be there straight away if anything goes wrong.
The independent guy has to be very good and well recommended to get in with a shout with a decent price or be signed up as a credit broker :wink:
Maybe the boilers are HOT, not hot to the touch just HOT that they need to be shifted, if you know what i mean.
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kirkgas
guys i am by no means the cowboys PR guy, but some of you aint listening, SE vokeras are available with a flue and clock over the counter for under £500 up here, and you can buy as many as you want, its all well and good, and having the customer base to only do full upgrades with vailliant/viessmann etc etc but some cant or wont pay £2500+ when their boiler breaks 4 weeks before santa comes
If thats how they wanna go about it then good on them, not my idea of running a company but if it works for them, fair play.
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kirkgas
as an aside to £800 for a combi swap, heres a question to those who dont mind answering it,
how much to fit a new combi?
there is a combi in, ground floor, good access, house is near you so no real travel issue (to balance out different area probs that you have parking etc), next to a sink for condensate pipe connection, no gas upgrade required, just a basic price and one of theose jobs where you see it say "ya dancer this will be easy peasy", "i need it done as cheap as you can mate i'm skint" minimal usual pipework alterations between worktop and boiler,
how much to fit a new combi?
there is a combi in, ground floor, good access, house is near you so no real travel issue (to balance out different area probs that you have parking etc), next to a sink for condensate pipe connection, no gas upgrade required, just a basic price and one of theose jobs where you see it say "ya dancer this will be easy peasy", "i need it done as cheap as you can mate i'm skint" minimal usual pipework alterations between worktop and boiler,
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kirkgas
as an aside to £800 for a combi swap, heres a question to those who dont mind answering it,
how much to fit a new combi?
there is a combi in, ground floor, good access, house is near you so no real travel issue (to balance out different area probs that you have parking etc), next to a sink for condensate pipe connection, no gas upgrade required, just a basic price and one of theose jobs where you see it say "ya dancer this will be easy peasy", "i need it done as cheap as you can mate i'm skint (dont care what goes in)" minimal usual pipework alterations between worktop and boiler,
how much to fit a new combi?
there is a combi in, ground floor, good access, house is near you so no real travel issue (to balance out different area probs that you have parking etc), next to a sink for condensate pipe connection, no gas upgrade required, just a basic price and one of theose jobs where you see it say "ya dancer this will be easy peasy", "i need it done as cheap as you can mate i'm skint (dont care what goes in)" minimal usual pipework alterations between worktop and boiler,
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tamz
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kirkgas
T
tamz
B
Barry98
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tamz
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Barry98
boiler wb,timer,room stat materials £1,050.00+labour £550.00=£1,600.00 inc vat (this is the last one i fitted 2 weeks back )
plus I give them free power flush
plus I give them free power flush
Got some info on the price cutting boiler swoppers, i'll no name & shame but there's 2 guys involved, in partnership i believe, 1 in bellshill & 1 in coatbridge, drumpellier i'm told . ring any bells kirk
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Puddle
Probably end up with boiler piped like this lovely one I bumped into today
customer double lucky as its a ferroli as well !!
:cry_smile:
customer double lucky as its a ferroli as well !!
:cry_smile:
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kay-jay
band b glowworm beta com £456 inc boiler flue and clock and fill loop. leaves 350 labour, no way on earth it can be a band a unless 2nd hand or nicked!!!
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Rickster123
shop down next to me in govanhell is advertising combi swaps at £750, I priced a combi swap at £1000(sabre boiler) someone else done it for £800, lost out on a heating system by a good couple of hundred and my joiner was doing the joinery work, told me install was a shambles and condensate pipe just popping outside.
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gaspastemania
You can get a sime (pile of junk) down here for about £500 ., and if they are like me dont pay for materials then £300 for labour straight swap then whats the big deal???
The cost of the advert we've looking at is £150 per week then there's all the other overheads as well
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gaspastemania
Well however you look a it wether gear knocked off or not nobody works for nothing and if they are happy to be earning £150 from a combi upgrade good for them . Times are tough to many plumbers etc , training centers and gas safe passing through muppetts its a case of deal with it because bubble has burst.
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mitchellplumber
There's desperate people out there, wasting it for everyone else, we're heading back to the way it was in the 80's, maybe worse.
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mitchellplumber
they must have run out of plastic pipe as they left the pipe in the middle to be copper ,or did not have enough fittings 🙂
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kirkgas
unfortunatly yes, :boxing_smiley: but for the purpose of this no, its just another mad skint punter
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kirkgas
not ringing any bells, send me a PM with their names, just out of noseyness, i wont post on it or comment
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Barry98
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top plumber
I give the option to the customer of a ferroli optimax with 5 years warranty £499 inc clock and flue and £300 labour or worcester greenstar around £1000 inc flue and clock with 2 years warranty and £300 labour, combi to combi! think u can guess which customer goes for!!
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gasmarc
If you are stupid enough to do a combi change for a few hundred pounds more fool you , I know a guy who drives a top of the range van that is empty bar a hose and a few fittings. The prices he charges he only needs to work one day a week , He does not do breakdowns or call outs.
if they aint registering the boiler could even be a band B, there are still band B's being sold, boiler flue and clock for around £400, for £800 its gonna be a crap boiler and a crap job and I would bet my bottom dollar its not done to regs.
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sheff paul
if the job is well planned,and you can get a 8am start finnished loads by dinnertime,takes a day when your running the gas back to the meter.If youve worked on price work for some of the big companies you find yourself doing it quicker than guys who have only worked for themselves,but 800 quid is taking the ****.
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top plumber
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