Where to next with work?

[Heat Kent]

As you can see Phillay, the problem is everyone assumes we’re looking for green grass and expect to earn incredible wages. There’s so much negativity out there that you’ll find the brick wall gives you a headache.

It seems to me, you can make a good honest living (not a killing) doing a job you ENJOY. The suggestion that you can’t teach an old dog new tricks is ridiculous. You need to put in several years graft with an experienced plumber and if you can stay working with them long term then that’s just great. The public know nothing of your experience or qualifications, they’re looking to buy into you. They need to see an honest, trustworthy guy, giving good advice and quoting a fair price. Once you’ve got the job you need to have the skills to do it well and there’s nothing to stop you from gaining those skills. Sure it’ll take you several years to build up contacts, experience and a good reputation, but remember experience doesn’t necessarily make you good! Whatever you do in life do it because you enjoy it – That seems to be where these guys went wrong 🙁

nothingbitter about me pal.
with all your waffle about your company's,why do you want to be a plumber.
or is it you have failed at everything.
if you really do have any brains,take my advice get out of this country.
ozz is very nice at this time of year.

I’ve not failed in business – We no longer need the Ltd Co as my wife has taken a permanent position and I don’t work in insurance anymore. My entertainment business is successful and I still run it on the weekends.

I have always wanted to be a plumber – Not for the money, just because I enjoy it. I don’t get why that’s so hard to understand and why people have to be so negative? With a good business background behind me, the right support and training from my mentor and a positive attitude… What can go wrong? :smiley2:

 

[Phillay]

Thank you everyone for your comments and opinions. It's certainly made for interesting reading! My apologies if my initial post has stirred up issues, it was purely to grasp as much advice as possible.

I can respect what everyone has had to say, I really can.

Not sure where the fast track route came up as I haven't actually gone down there, but granted I haven't gone the traditional route either and I fully appreciate that although I may have a 'qualification', I do lack a good ten years of experience I would have held having gone through an apprenticeship.

I left office work behind purely as I'd done it a long time and I wanted a career change and to try and make something more of myself. So when the opportunity to work and learn with an experienced builder came up, I took it.

I spent 3 1/2 years working in the building trade, starting out carrying bricks and filling a cement mixer, but moving on to more competent work as my skills increased. It was then that my father-in-law (a fully qualified Plumber, in his mid 50's and went the traditional route), suggested I look at a trade and that I should seriously consider Plumbing.

From there I signed on at my local regional college, spent 2 years of classroom/practical training, doing the same City & Guilds course that all the young apprentices take these days. I then spent a further year working on site, completing evidence that was observed and marked by my assessor (who was a time served Plumber & now a college tutor), even completing a load of lead weathering! haha. Total cost of £2k that went to the government, not a privately funded company.

I feel proud of myself for obtaining the full C&G NVQ 2 certificate, more so than gaining my A Levels if I'm honest.

I'm now just trying to build some form of a career in Plumbing. I'm not dreaming of large salaries and being my own boss, and if I don't feel confident I could do a job correctly to current standards, I don't do it. I've had to turn down a few jobs and stick with a bit of maintenance & repair for just family and friends. I'm just looking to work alongside some highly experienced guys, learning from them, building my confidence and to hopefully make an honest living for myself while being a good, trustworthy employee.

I'm not looking to steal clients, make quick money and I've never listened to the "IT Manager leaves £60k year job to become a Plumber" stories. Hopefully I find the right person and opportunity to fulfill my ambition and maybe one day, I may then be able to pass some form of knowledge and experience on to help someone else out.

But if the building trade continues to collapse, or it appears I have left it too late, then I'll just have to explore other avenues... Once again, I apologise if my initial post has caused trouble amongst forum members, but thank you very much for some of the very positive ideas and suggestions.

 

[Blake]

Absolutely no need to apologise pal or explain your reasoning for wanting to be a plumber.

 

[plumb-tech]

Wait till next January when all the Romanian and Bulgarians come over, then we'll see even less work...
I'm getting out while I can

 

[gasmanrob]

What are you going to do instead?

 

[plumb-tech]

Well I was gonna go back to uni but not now as its too long and no guarantee of a good job, so have decided to do an accountancy course as I would like an office based job in the finance industry. Just gonna be hard to get experience, will have to do some voluntary work. Shame cos bout 6 months ago I spent £1500 on my acs course but never completed the portfolio, just had enough of plumbing, and it's changed a lot since I started...

 

[northstar]

Well I was gonna go back to uni but not now as its too long and no guarantee of a good job, so have decided to do an accountancy course as I would like an office based job in the finance industry. Just gonna be hard to get experience, will have to do some voluntary work. Shame cos bout 6 months ago I spent £1500 on my acs course but never completed the portfolio, just had enough of plumbing, and it's changed a lot since I started...

what area do you live in ?

 

[plumb-tech]

Just outside of London, hertfordshire

 

[Deleted member 25704]

Well I was gonna go back to uni but not now as its too long and no guarantee of a good job, so have decided to do an accountancy course as I would like an office based job in the finance industry. Just gonna be hard to get experience, will have to do some voluntary work. Shame cos bout 6 months ago I spent £1500 on my acs course but never completed the portfolio, just had enough of plumbing, and it's changed a lot since I started...

If you don't have ties, university is free in Germany and some other Euro states. In Holland, its about 1k a year tuition fee to do Law Degrees in English! in top 200 World Universities such as Gronigen and Maastricht. If you get a job doing 8 hours a week of work (burger king etc) the Dutch government will pay you a grant of just over 3k a year. Holland has lowest unemployment rate in Europe so jobs are easy to get compared to here, and nearly everyone speaks English.

We have people here learning plumbing for the future, when these jobs will be taken by the foreign competition anyway because they are more qualified, more experienced and better trainined.

Expect a mass exodus of students the other way to learn professions - go for it!

 

[plumb-tech]

Yea I have to stay in the uk as I have kids and my partner wouldn't want to move abroad otherwise I would of left this country years ago. I was gonna start a business/finance degree with the open university which was gonna take 3 years and cost £15k but not sure if its better to just do a couple of quick courses and get an entry level job and work my way up.

 

[Deleted member 25704]

Yea I have to stay in the uk as I have kids and my partner wouldn't want to move abroad otherwise I would of left this country years ago. I was gonna start a business/finance degree with the open university which was gonna take 3 years and cost £15k but not sure if its better to just do a couple of quick courses and get an entry level job and work my way up.

University applications down in the UK. Professions will suffer their own skills shortages but don't believe anything sector skills councils say about skills shortages - look at what happened to plumbing.

If you can get into university then go for it, but be cautious about doing a degree through FE and paying top dollar. Admissions are down in the 3rd rate universities so pick out those in red brick or russel group to take out an investment on.

Apprenticeships and trades are less than minimum wage potential, because there is nothing else. Alternatively there is a gap in the higher education market openning up, with low interest loans and no need to pay it back if you do not earn anything - its a no brainer if you have A levels.

 

[plumb-tech]

I just don't know weather to spend 3 years studying to then not be able to get a job because I will be 32/33 year old graduate, do you not think its better to try and get an entry level job and work my way up

 

[Phillay]

It's interesting to read mate, here I am having spent 9 years working in the financial industry and then IT... and I've been trying to break away from it for the last 4 years to move into construction, hence me starting this thread.

Yet it appears there's alot of guys like yourself plumb-tech who want to go the other way and leave construction for the office industry.

Obviously the experienced plumbing guys here say the grass isn't greener and it's funny because it's the same thing I'd say for those moving out of construction into other areas.

The harsh reality of financial services (unless you're really qualified), is working for a salary of between £15-18k (that's midlands based, so will obviously be higher under London weighting), all your work is unit timed, you're expected to work at a speed of 110 mph without making mistakes, managers treat you like your 5 years old, and you have to suffer alot of office politics... It's fast paced and there's a lot of headache and stress.

But provided you can get with the right company and work with good people, you can progress and make a handsome salary, some of my mates earn circa of £30k, but it's a lot of responsibility. My suggestion would be to look at evening courses/qualifications with a local college, something you can do alongside your job, then hopefully start applying for some starter jobs, they'll take you more seriously (and you're not spending out too much money upfront).

It's very hard to obtain work in the construction trade when your office based and very much vice versa, trust me I know first hand, employers really struggle to take you seriously if you haven't had a proven background.

 

[Deleted member 25704]

I would go for the 3 year graduate qualification because it has currency for life

A plumbing NVQ3 is regarded poorly in the construction sector and has worthless currency because anyone can do an ACS in weeks and become registered. After five years you are paying for it again.

The long term value of a degree is proven - for existing vocational qualifications you are speculating.

If have a history degree, geography or anything you can teach - there is 30k a year and it doesn't have to be in your first subject area.

In addition, if you don't get a job, then you don't pay back the loan.

Those adult students thinking of spending £thousands should take note, that they can also apply for a student loan and pay it back when you earn over 21K - which will be never!

However, this is seen as some as scandalous, it is one way of financing your investment in training on the cheap if not for free:

UCU - University and College Union - Apprentices will have to pay to work

 

[plumb-tech]

I have thought about this a lot in the past 3 years, i started as a plumber back when i heard all these stories about how much they earn and as my dad was a plumber i thought id go for it, worst decision i ever made. Its very hard to make any money in plumbing these days unless you have a very large and loyal customer base. I dont know what its like in the midlands but down here you've got the ever increasing traffic everyday (very stressfull). A lot of polish builders claiming to be plumbers and doing jobs for half the price. If you dont speak fluent polish you will not be able to get a job at a site. And now they have said in jan 2014 were letting all the bulgarian and romanians over and guess what industry most of them are gonna work in??? (construction). There average wage in bulgaria is £20 per day so what you will have (like we had with the polish) is they will come over with there wife and kids, get a council house for free as they will say the wife is on her own, and then undercut every decent plumber trying to make a living, if they earn £40 per day they will be happy as they will not have any outgoings so will be sending £20 per day home to there savings account and spending the rest at there bulgarian supermarkets which will start popping up ( like the polish did). I know this as i have a couple of polish friends that done this for the last 8 years they have now gone back to poland bought businesses and live a comfortable life while we continue to struggle. I dont blame them i blame us because if someone said to you go to france for 5 years and you will come back with loads of money you probably would.

Anyway apart from that you cant retire now until your 70, can you imagine yourself under sinks or climbing through lofts at that age, im 29 and ive already had a knee operation and back hurts like hell. when i started i thought id run my own company after a while and employ people, cant see that happening now, I struggle to make £20k a year.
The stress in running your own plumbing company is huge, im actually on prescription drugs because of this and got receding hair line....

Im not saying for anyone not to do it if it is something you want to do, but dont o it just for the money as i did because thats long gone, the only ones making money are those who have done it for 30+ years which if you did an office based job for that long you should be making good money.

Being filthy all the time, not what i enjoy i would rather be in a nice warm office and just ignore the ****s with there office politics.

 

[Phillay]

Fair play mate. I hear you as we're having the same problems here in Cambs. Our population has upped massively, but it's not only the construction jobs that are being taken up. I spent some time working in IT systems for a well known retailer's distribution centre when it opened. Pretty much everyone working alongside me had moved from Eastern Europe, well, recruited from Eastern Europe and paid to re-locate here... 'Every little helps' I suppose.

Very hard workers, for less money, but when you see the queues outside our job centre, it's just crazy.

My wife's worked for the same insurance company for 15 years, she started out at about £11k, and is now on around £19k... not a massive increase, but a decent wage all the same... she's pretty much stuck now as she's sitting at the top of her salary band. I faced a few redunancies which really sets you back.

But, if you're unhappy with the way work's going, you can only go and try something else... good on you for doing that. That's all I was trying to do by making a career change towards construction, not really money driven. One particular office job I encountered made me very ill and set in a lot of grey hairs.

Going back to what you were thinking though, if you can get in somewhere and start at the bottom, a lot of my mates have done that and managed to work their way up, it's a bit of 'right place, right time' and 'not what you know, who you know'... but definately give it a go.

 

[Heat Kent]

I think employers in any field are looking for experience over qualifications, but if you’re looking to change to an office based role you might find that there are skills you can gain which are far more valuable to employers than generic degrees (unless you’re looking to be a doctor or something that requires a degree). Often having a degree doesn’t make you qualified to do a job, but rather shows the employer you have potential to learn and apply new skills specific to the role. It’s not necessarily right, or fair, but you’ll find that your CV with a degree and employment history in construction amongst 500 others won’t even make it to the HR department if everyone else has got years of relevant experience behind them, just like most plumbing firms wouldn’t look at my CV.

My wife left school with just a handful of GCSEs and went to work in an investment bank as a low paid admin girl. She was always the first in and last out of the office, she did her IAQs (Investment AdministrationQualifications) in her own time, went on loads of spreadsheet and database courses, learned Mandarin and goes on all sorts of other management courses. She now manages a team and is the only person in her department who doesn’t have a degree, but it’s the relevant qualifications that make her invaluable to the bank. She earns a good wage, but it comes at a price… High pressure, constant redundancies, office politics and not stop deadlines. Our alarm goes off at 4:30 every morning so she can get the 5:30 train and she doesn’t get home until gone 10pm (provided no one on her team messes up). She wants to take redundancy in a few years and just do fun stuff like balloon twisting, DJing, wedding services and promo work.

At the end of the day, anyone retraining at our age will come across hurdles, but if you’re not happy doing what you do then it’s time to make a change. Maybe look to find the job you want and figure out what qualifications you need to do it rather than getting the qualification and looking for jobs to fit around that? The problem with office jobs is that most people fall into them by accident, it’s not like you can try a role out before you apply.

We should hook up, I’ll teach you everything I know about underwriting and loss adjusting, you can teach me everything you know about plumbing. Just do a job swap….:clap: