Is it really cheaper for me to have central heating on all day than a gas fire?

[hollyoaks777]

Is it really cheaper for me to have central heating on than a gas fire? My fire is an open coal effect gas fire I can't find mine as it's 14year old. I just moved house last year and brought my Marble fireplace and gas fire with me. I also want to know if I get a new Boiler would my bills be cheaper. I don't know how old my boiler is as it's a council property and it was there when I moved in.

But plumber checked with his supplier and says he has been selling spare parts for it for 10 years. It's a SIME
code: 8104011
Model: Ecomfort plus 30 HE
GC No 47-283-14

I have an extra bedroom in my property and I am downstairs now but the radiator is at frost setting in back bedroom my gas bill is now £61 a month whereas I was only £39 at my old property and I used the central heating a lot more in my old property than this one. I have asked about my relations My sister is only £60 a month and is in a 4 bedroom house of her own up and downstairs 2 adults and 2 kids and she is only £60 a month, my cousin is in a 3 bedroom house up and downstairs and is only £46 a month for 2 adults and a kid. I am in a 2 bedroom 4 in a block house groundfloor with 2 bedrooms of which I don't use the radiator in the back bedroom and I am £61 a month and I am on my own I can't afford to heat the house the way I want to. And I am in debt to the supplier.

And concil have told me I am not getting a new boiler as it has spare parts for it. and it's burning at 29.52Kw and is only a 30Kw boiler. So they told me not to use my gas fire turn all radiators down to 2 apart from Living Room keep it at full. Would a new boiler make any difference

 

[Chalked]

It's all to fo with efficiency.
York gas boiler may be 85% efficient, so 15p of every £ is wasted.
Your fire is likely to be 60%, do 40p goes up your chimney.

 

[hollyoaks777]

It's all to fo with efficiency.
York gas boiler may be 85% efficient, so 15p of every £ is wasted.
Your fire is likely to be 60%, do 40p goes up your chimney.

That's quite a lot to me. For someone like me who hasn't got a clue about heating systems is that efficent enough? The plumer I got in myself did say new radiators might help as mine are around 25 years old would they? I am sure it was alloy radiators he said would help.

 

[Riley]

It's all relative. You might spend a fair whack on getting a newer more efficient boiler some ERP models are well into the 90%s efficiency wise however you may also improve the situation with controls like a thermostat and a programmer or maybe properly insulating the property if it's not already? Sounds like you currently have a band B boiler possibly. These can no longer be fitted as they aren't efficient enough. Hope this helps

 

[hollyoaks777]

Thank you. I am just my radiators at 2 and see how mu much that helps. The plumber checked it out with the company that sells spare parts for it they said it was A rated. I am not so sure Though as My bills are too high.

 

[jtsplumbing]

Why are you concerning your self with the cost of boiler parts & the price of new boilers ?? it's a council owned property, anything go's wrong with it's down to the council to put it right, I'm sure they would love you to spend out a couple of thousand pounds installing new equipment, but you wont get this money back, What is the insulation like in the house ? the council get this done for free, Open flame effect gas fires are not the most efficient , think about getting a outset gas fire that is behind glass , some of these are over 80% efficient .

 

[hollyoaks777]

Why are you concerning your self with the cost of boiler parts & the price of new boilers ?? it's a council owned property, anything go's wrong with it's down to the council to put it right, I'm sure they would love you to spend out a couple of thousand pounds installing new equipment, but you wont get this money back, What is the insulation like in the house ? the council get this done for free, Open flame effect gas fires are not the most efficient , think about getting a outset gas fire that is behind glass , some of these are over 80% efficient .

It's because they said I am not gettimg one off them. But if it made a big difference I would get my MP involved. The cavity wall insulation is like white loft insulation without the glass is the best I can descirbe it. I didn't think my bills would be much different. Headache! Yes council got it done free. That's not as good as my old house either. it was like silicone. It came throgh my extractor fan and stopped it working, that's how I know that. I am just enqiring to see if a new boiler would bring my bills down a good bit. Then I would be straight on the phone to my MP. According to Chalk if I am correct I am losing £9 a month

 

[jtsplumbing]

Could be other factors causing a large heat loss, Doors / Windows etc. A lot of older property's in this area are having major upgrades , Heating, insulation, and in most cases the whole of the outside is covered in insulation, I know people that have had this done & now hardly have the heating on, I don't know what difference your MP will make ! they will just say its down to cut backs, Unless you have some sort of illness or are disabled you wont stand much chance of any help, even they don't stand much chance, in most cases peoples benefits are being cut , You'll Proberly have to put on a extra jumper and use a hot water bottle, No good going to sit in the Library most of them have been shut !!!

 

[hollyoaks777]

Could be other factors causing a large heat loss, Doors / Windows etc. A lot of older property's in this area are having major upgrades , Heating, insulation, and in most cases the whole of the outside is covered in insulation, I know people that have had this done & now hardly have the heating on, I don't know what difference your MP will make ! they will just say its down to cut backs, Unless you have some sort of illness or are disabled you wont stand much chance of any help, even they don't stand much chance, in most cases peoples benefits are being cut , You'll Proberly have to put on a extra jumper and use a hot water bottle, No good going to sit in the Library most of them have been shut !!!

Did the people you know get that done with the council? I have multiple illnesses. That's why I need the heat but I can't afford it. What is that type of insulation your talking about? Is it insulation board with plasterboard attatched to it? If it wasn't the council how much did it cost them? Doors and windows just got renewed not long ago jts.

 

[jtsplumbing]

What they have done here costs thousands it was a major housing upgrade in this & I understand other parts of the country, to be honest you need to try Social services , CAB etc. but to be quite honest I don't think you will have much luck with any of them, you will just be fobbed of with its due to budget cuts, Believe that government is stopping the Heating allowance after this year, Government has no money left after Giving Billons to the EU and aid to almost every other country on the planet once your over a certain age in this country you are just a burden Think it was something that Scrooge quoted in a Christmas carol about the old and sick and reducing the population if they cant support themselves (Just let them die)

 

[hollyoaks777]

What they have done here costs thousands it was a major housing upgrade in this & I understand other parts of the country, to be honest you need to try Social services , CAB etc. but to be quite honest I don't think you will have much luck with any of them, you will just be fobbed of with its due to budget cuts, Believe that government is stopping the Heating allowance after this year, Government has no money left after Giving Billons to the EU and aid to almost every other country on the planet once your over a certain age in this country you are just a burden Think it was something that Scrooge quoted in a Christmas carol about the old and sick and reducing the population if they cant support themselves (Just let them die)

I didn't know that. But we had our chance and blew it!!! What is CAB? That man would do away with the NHS tommorow if he could. He's doing it the fly way so it will collapse with the cuts. So back to my question is it worth trying to get a new boiler or will it not make any difference to my bills?

 

[Riley]

A new boiler might help but the actual saving money side of things is far more involved. I would be surprised if a new boiler didn't help your costs on a monthly basis but it could just be masking another problem for example double glazing, insulation, loft insulation, cavity wall insulation, heating controls such as timers TRVs. A lot of people just gauge the efficiency of their boiler by how hot the house Is but ignore how much energy is just going straight out the window

 

[jtsplumbing]

Ask the council when they intend to upgrade the property, surprised the boiler has lasted 10 years simie boilers not the best, if you have the sort of luck that most people have , you would pay out for a boiler next week , then get a letter form council saying they are replacing all the old boilers over 10 years, (CAB = Citizens advise bureau ) better to keep your money in the bank earning a little interest and paying that little extra on the gas bill, Get gas supplier to check if meter is faulty ! are you on a Key Meter or quarterly meter ? Don't for get we are into the winter Mths now, so bills will be higher, Have a word with your gas supplier to see if your on the best tariff (Rate) Did you have a combi boiler at your last house ? If you work out what your paying in extra gas (Approx £20) its going to take you somewhere around 8 to 10 years to spend on extra gas what it will cost to replace the boiler and you will still have to pay for gas !! KEEP YOUR MONEY IN THE BANK !!!!

 

[hollyoaks777]

A new boiler might help but the actual saving money side of things is far more involved. I would be surprised if a new boiler didn't help your costs on a monthly basis but it could just be masking another problem for example double glazing, insulation, loft insulation, cavity wall insulation, heating controls such as timers TRVs. A lot of people just gauge the efficiency of their boiler by how hot the house Is but ignore how much energy is just going straight out the window

Have you amy idea how much a new boiler would save me a month. I have cavity wall insulation and new double glazing windows and pvc doors,

 

[Riley]

As I think someone mentioned earlier. At a guess we would say your current boiler is 85% efficient. Some of the new boilers can be as high as 95 or 96% efficient so I guess you could look at it with your current boiler 15p in the pound goes out the window. you have to note however that this is only very very rough as there are multiple other things that can affect this. I think you are wanting one of us to say you need a new boiler but if the one you have is working even if it is less efficient I certainly wouldn't say in my professional opinion that one should be provided. I am no expert in council housing however so do not know if they have any obligation to provide you with a certain efficiency boiler my suspicion would be that they don't

 

[jtsplumbing]

Ok you are spending £61 per Mth on gas boiler is about 85% efficient

New boiler is on average 95% efficient this will save about 10% on gas about £6.00 per Mth

Divide this saving by the cost of a knew boiler ! approx. in round numbers depending what has to be done & make of boiler etc.
£1500 to £2000
You would be saving around £72.00 per year, divide this by the cost of new boiler and it will take you between 20 & 30 years to get the cost of the boiler back on what you save on gas & you will still be paying about £55.00 per Mth for gas

YOU ARE WASTEING YOUR MONEY PAYING OUT FOR A NEW BOILER ONLY SAVEING £6.00 Mth £1.50 per week

AS B4 CHECK THAT YOUR ON THE RIGHT TARRIF OR CHANGE SUPPLIER

 

[doitmyself]

Your Sime boiler is A rated, which is the best you can get. Unless it has never been serviced, it should still be just as efficient. So it would be a waste of money changing the boiler.

There must be some other reason why your bills are high.

Do you have a timer and room thermostat (or programmable thermostat)? If so, what are the settings?

Setting the TRV to 2 in unused rooms may help - provided you keep the doors closed. But heat will still pass through the walls and floors from the heated rooms into the unused rooms.

 

[hollyoaks777]

Your Sime boiler is A rated, which is the best you can get. Unless it has never been serviced, it should still be just as efficient. So it would be a waste of money changing the boiler.

There must be some other reason why your bills are high.

Do you have a timer and room thermostat (or programmable thermostat)? If so, what are the settings?

Setting the TRV to 2 in unused rooms may help - provided you keep the doors closed. But heat will still pass through the walls and floors from the heated rooms into the unused rooms.

sorry I fell asleep I thimk I will keep it it has Danfoss wireless heatimg cntrol amd I turn it on and Turn it on and off as it comes on ay 20 degrees and until you pressed up it stayed off. Now when I turn it on it comes on at 20 and also strts the heating on.

 

[Roger Welton]

Best way to cut bills is to have it on less, 6 hours a day instead of 12 will halve (roughly) your bill.

If you have the house heated 24-7 then £2 a day doesnt sound too bad to me!

 

[hollyoaks777]

Best way to cut bills is to have it on less, 6 hours a day instead of 12 will halve (roughly) your bill.

If you have the house heated 24-7 then £2 a day doesnt sound too bad to me!

Yes that would be great but unfortunately that's only for 3 hours maximum a day. That question is hypothetical. As I do want it on all day. But I can't afford it and I am in debt to my supplier for maximum of 3 hours a day. Because I set up a direct debit for the same as my old house. Thinking it would be about the same or a bit more. But not this much more.

 

[SimonG]

You can take boiler efficiencies with a pinch of salt.

Hear it all the time with oil boilers. Custs complaining that the swapped a 78% efficient boiler for a new one running at supposed 95% or higher. Straight away they think I'm going to use 17% less oil, it's gonads. Figures in reality are completely different.

If your gas bill is too high then use it less. Insulate, keep one room warm, use the central heating rather than the fire etc.

 

[Rickster123]

Pop an extra jumper on..

 

[hollyoaks777]

Pop an extra jumper on..

Funny you say that I am just buying thermal underwear mate

 

[village idiot]

Funny you say that I am just buying thermal underwear mate

This is a family forum hollyoaks, please keep your private life private🙂

 

[SimonG]

Anyway, it was 20 degrees this afternoon and that's in the great cold north.

 

[village idiot]

This is a family forum hollyoaks, please keep your private life private🙂

That post was just banter hollyoaks, so don't start worrying about it. Besides, nobody ever takes me seriously, you shouldn't either

 

[hollyoaks777]

That post was just banter hollyoaks, so don't start worrying about it. Besides, nobody ever takes me seriously, you shouldn't either

Thank you mate I thought you were serious. 🙂

 

[Worcester]

This is really simple, you need to speak to social services and your housing supplier, explain your problems and get them to offer solutions.

 

[hollyoaks777]

This is really simple, you need to speak to social services and your housing supplier, explain your problems and get them to offer solutions.

I called for help today off them. I was told can't help me yet they are putting new boilers in just round the corner. I also called about the flue the other day as dust is coming in as the plastic flap is not tight against inside wall. I asked him if he could make one go walkies and I would pay him he said they are all ordered as needed and have electronic tags on them. He told me to turn all the heaters down to 2 except the living room. I can't understand why it's so much more. I spoke to a plumber today he told me to ask for new radiators as the one's I have are 25 years old and burn more gas than the new radiators. I am trying to get all the information I can before I call my MP. So if you can help me out with if I new boiler would save me much money. As I calculated I am losing 10p for every £1 I am losing £6. And my fire is literally burning money. According to chalk if I remember correctly I am losing 40p for every £1 for my gas fire. So I have been told by everyone I am cheaper using my central heating than the fire even though I am only in the living room. I thought I was saving money by not using the central heating as it's heating every room instead of just the one room I am in.

 

[Allgoode]

On a different note are you on a pre-payment meter.
If you are and owe the gas company money or potentially the previous tenant owed money to the gas supplier a percentage of each £ that you put on the meter will go off to paying that debt thus you might only be using a small amount of gas but paying back a heftier chunk of debt.
Also if I am barking up the wrong tree with the above comments gas usage is relative, if you have the temp right up then you will use more gas or if you have all the rads on low the boiler may be cycling which is inefficient.
Finally if you have moved in and brought your old marble fire surround and own gas fire, was the fire correctly fitted for you by a gas safe registered engineer and gas rated, etc.
Failing that the property may be poorly insulated/drafty which is causing a significant heat loss.
Hope this helps,
Allgoode

 

[Allgoode]

I am in a 2 bedroom 4 in a block house groundfloor with 2 bedrooms of which I don't use the radiator in the back bedroom and I am £61 a month and I am on my own I can't afford to heat the house the way I want to. And I am in debt to the supplier.

This may be the main issue. Sounds like the gas supply company are taking a fair chunk of money for debt repayment

 

[Worcester]

The OP is in debt because her heating bills are higher now than at her previuos property, and she didn't increase here direct debit.

My advice is: STOP LOOKING FOR THE SOLUTION YOURSELF, a new boiler may well not be the answer, as far as the Housing provider is concerned, they will consider your request as just noise.

You need social services to come round and assess your needs, if there are problems with your heating system / you can't afford it, then they can apply far more pressure on your housing provider than you can - they can actually enforce certain changes / enhancements, and may be able to help with the outstanidng amounts to the energy provider - in certain circumstances they can get it written off.

 

[hollyoaks777]

On a different note are you on a pre-payment meter.
If you are and owe the gas company money or potentially the previous tenant owed money to the gas supplier a percentage of each £ that you put on the meter will go off to paying that debt thus you might only be using a small amount of gas but paying back a heftier chunk of debt.
Also if I am barking up the wrong tree with the above comments gas usage is relative, if you have the temp right up then you will use more gas or if you have all the rads on low the boiler may be cycling which is inefficient.
Finally if you have moved in and brought your old marble fire surround and own gas fire, was the fire correctly fitted for you by a gas safe registered engineer and gas rated, etc.
Failing that the property may be poorly insulated/drafty which is causing a significant heat loss.
Hope this helps,
Allgoode

I just moved in last year I brought my marble fireplace and fire with me as I lost thousands of pounds by leaving my white high gloss kitchen I bought when I was working oh and by the way when I viewed the property I was then told by letter that is the day you moved in. you want to have seen it and I had to pay for the 2 properties! When I moved in it was prepayment metres and it was Scottish Power I they were with which I wouldn't advise anyone to go with. Took me months to get away from them said their systems were down etc. Told me Scottish Hydro hadn't sent them anything and they had sent them everything anyway it's a long story and over 13 hours on the phone to them.

But the people before me did oew them and everyone else thousands. I had to call up and tell all the companies they were dead as the sherrif officers were coming. But I got set to zero and because of my health conditions I got standard metres fitted for free. I often wonder if they set the meter up to get the money back.

Yes the fire was fitted correctly with corgi registered gas fitter. the chimney wasn't swept because of the time scale and I keep getting bits of coalcoming out the base of the fire I am looking at some now. And a wee hint to anyone don't touch with your bare hands. So the coals are damaged I take it. I have new windows and doors. And cavity wall insulation was already done when I moved in.

 

[hollyoaks777]

The OP is in debt because her heating bills are higher now than at her previuos property, and she didn't increase here direct debit.

My advice is: STOP LOOKING FOR THE SOLUTION YOURSELF, a new boiler may well not be the answer, as far as the Housing provider is concerned, they will consider your request as just noise.

You need social services to come round and assess your needs, if there are problems with your heating system / you can't afford it, then they can apply far more pressure on your housing provider than you can - they can actually enforce certain changes / enhancements, and may be able to help with the outstanidng amounts to the energy provider - in certain circumstances they can get it written off.

I called occupational therapist today to see if they could help they said no. Who are social services as I haven't a clue about all this and it was just pure luck the lady asked me if I had any health problems when I called about new meters. And I got them for free be.cause of that

 

[Dotty]

You need to talk to environmental health, citizens advice bureau and the gas Co itself.

You're asking us for a definitive answer to your problem but, other than a rough guess at best there's really not much we can do for you.

Having read this thread through a couple of times now I feel that things have been taken for granted by all parties, although in your case I will concede that you probably weren't to know.

But if it's affecting your health you really do need to contact environmental health.

 

[hollyoaks777]

You need to talk to environmental health, citizens advice bureau and the gas Co itself.

You're asking us for a definitive answer to your problem but, other than a rough guess at best there's really not much we can do for you.

Having read this thread through a couple of times now I feel that things have been taken for granted by all parties, although in your case I will concede that you probably weren't to know.

But if it's affecting your health you really do need to contact environmental health.

OK thank you I really appreciate all the input people have gave me I googled social services and I am calling them tomorrow. Thank you for letting me know that. I will Google environmental health just now as another contact to call if social services can't help me.

 

[tamz]

From the way you speak (type) i take it you are in Scotland.
Firstly, no one should move their gas supply direct debit from one property to another. You leave one property and settle up any difference then start again in the new one.
Thats the way it is
If they have just put you on a direct debit based on the previous tenant take meter readings and ring them or internet them with actual meter readings. Very easy with the Hydro.
Moving on
Step 2, go talk to citizens advice and explain your situation. They will liaise with any 3rd parties
Step 3, speak to social services (or ask cit advice to do so on your behalf)

We are only plumbers and you need more help than we can give you.

 

[hollyoaks777]

From the way you speak (type) i take it you are in Scotland.
Firstly, no one should move their gas supply direct debit from one property to another. You leave one property and settle up any difference then start again in the new one.
Thats the way it is
If they have just put you on a direct debit based on the previous tenant take meter readings and ring them or internet them with actual meter readings. Very easy with the Hydro.
Moving on
Step 2, go talk to citizens advice and explain your situation. They will liaise with any 3rd parties
Step 3, speak to social services (or ask cit advice to do so on your behalf)

We are only plumbers and you need more help than we can give you.

Yes I am Scottish mate. Does it really stand out in typing? That's amazing, anyway no it was me who told them what to take direct debit as I thought it would be about the same. And to my shock it's not. I had a plumber in saying it's of the highest efficiency. My boiler that is but that doesn't make sense for a boiler that he's been able to get spare parts for 10 years. Surely newer boilers are more efficient? Thanks again to everyone for your help and advice I wouldn't know what to do without you's! And I will never forget the help I have had off you's!

 

[gmartine]

Listen carefully mate because it seems you don't want to accept the same answer you've been getting from several contributors which is that your boiler is fine despite it's age.

If you really want to know what is cheaper to run then use your fire (only) for a day and then do the same for the central heating making a note of the gas meter reading (units) at the start and end of the day(s) as long as both days are of similar temperature of course.


Read Tamz contribution again.

 

[hollyoaks777]

Listen carefully mate because it seems you don't want to accept the same answer you've been getting from several contributors which is that your boiler is fine despite it's age.

If you really want to know what is cheaper to run then use your fire (only) for a day and then do the same for the central heating making a note of the gas meter reading (units) at the start and end of the day(s) as long as both days are of similar temperature of course.


Read Tamz contribution again.

Not at all I do believe what I have been told I was just wondering if there were more efficient boilers. Fires not going on again be as well throwing money up the chimney. I am planning on doing a test with the heating on all day and see what it's using. Just want to be right about everything before I start making calls on Monday. And I am glad of all the input.

 

[Riley]

Your boiler is not your problem. You need help with other underlying factors in your property

 

[Rickster123]

Can I ask why you would be entitled to a more efficient boiler than the one you currently have?

 

[hollyoaks777]

Your boiler is not your problem. You need help with other underlying factors in your property

Yes I know that but I can't seem to figure it out. It's got cavity wall insulation, new windows and doors. Is it as simple as radiators as these are at least 25 years old.

 

[Riley]

It's a larger property isn't it ???

 

[hollyoaks777]

It's a larger property isn't it ???

Yes but not massively and the plumber I had in is in a 3 bedroom up and downstairs and bigger than my house £46 a month. My sister is in an even bigger house than that with 4 bedrooms 2 toilets etc. Bath every day for the youngest shower for the other 3 2 adults 2 kids £60 a month. So it can't be that or can it?

 

[jtsplumbing]

I have replied several times to this person even give them a rough breakdown on what they will save & how long it will take to recoup the cost of replacing the boiler, But they seem determined to spend out on replacing a boiler thinking its going to save them money on gas in a property that's not even there's, Told them the heating is-not there problem but don't want to listen, So if it makes you feel happy go ahead and spend your money on a new boiler, I'm sure the council would like all there tenants to do the same, it would save them a fortune

 

[hollyoaks777]

I have replied several times to this person even give them a rough breakdown on what they will save & how long it will take to recoup the cost of replacing the boiler, But they seem determined to spend out on replacing a boiler thinking its going to save them money on gas in a property that's not even there's, Told them the heating is-not there problem but don't want to listen, So if it makes you feel happy go ahead and spend your money on a new boiler, I'm sure the council would like all there tenants to do the same, it would save them a fortune

You have me wrong I like to be double sure before I start a fight. And it is a fight. That's all and I am more than sure now sorry if you feel unvalued but you are well and truly valued my friend.

 

[Rickster123]

You have me wrong I like to be double sure before I start a fight. And it is a fight. That's all and I am more than sure now sorry if you feel unvalued but you are well and truly valued my friend.

A fight for what? A new boiler free of charge when there's nothing wrong with yours? I don't really understand the point of this.

 

[Riley]

I maintain the problem is in your house and is not the boiler To be honest I would go back to what Tamz said and actually get some people in to assess your property for its heat and energy efficiency.

 

[hollyoaks777]

A fight for what? A new boiler free of charge when there's nothing wrong with yours? I don't really understand the point of this.

A fight for anything off them no not a boiler, but plumber did say that these type of systems were fitted when the back boiler was behind the fire. And are at least 25 years old even the energy company is bamboozled with the amount of units I used over the year and want £140 to test the meter. As they think the meter maybe at fault.

 

[hollyoaks777]

I maintain the problem is in your house and is not the boiler To be honest I would go back to what time is sai to be honest I would go back to what Tamz said and actually get some people in to assess your property for its heat and energy efficiency.

How do I get people into access it. What organisation?

 

[gmartine]

I am downstairs now

I've just had a re-read for any clues...although your old flat was smaller was it on a first or second floor above and below other flats whereas now you're on the ground? It can make quite a difference in overall temperature and amount of heat required.

For a proper analysis you need to examine exactly how many units you are using and at what rate. Are you paying a different tariff for your gas because you are in debt? Besides the fact that your new flat is larger do you have any old bills from the old place to make a proper comparision and have you asked your immediate neighbour what they pay because if it's a relatively new gas meter chances are it is okay.

 

[Riley]

Are you housing association or through the council I don't understand how it works in Scotland im afraid that would be my first port of call tell them you have a problem although I just don't understand what you expect them to do. I realise there is a difference in cost to you but I have to say it's not 100% clear exactly what you are trying to achieve now

 

[Riley]

A fight for anything off them no not a boiler, but plumber did say that these type of systems were fitted when the back boiler was behind the fire. And are at least 25 years old even the energy company is bamboozled with the amount of units I used over the year and want £140 to test the meter. As they think the meter maybe at fault.

Also if the meter is up the swanny then they surely can't charge you for that as that's their property

 

[hollyoaks777]

I've just had a re-read for any clues...although your old flat was smaller was it on a first or second floor above and below other flats whereas now you're on the ground? It can make quite a difference in overall temperature and amount of heat required.

It was second floor mate, I know what you are getting at but that doesn't account for my sisters mum's and cousins being up and downstairs and you know what woman are like with their heating. If I had a mrs with me could you imagine the bills!!

 

[hollyoaks777]

Also if the meter is up the swanny then they surely can't charge you for that as that's their property

No I haven't to pay for the test but I don't think they will say it will be wrong they said it's took away to a site stripped apart and not usable again. Doubt they will give me credit for the bills I have been paying. That was never mentioned.

 

[Rickster123]

No I haven't to pay for the test but I don't think they will say it will be wrong they said it's took away to a site stripped apart and not usable again. Doubt they will give me credit for the bills I have been paying. That was never mentioned.

You said they want £140 to test the meter?

 

[gmartine]

It was second floor mate, I know what you are getting at but that doesn't account for my sisters mum's and cousins being up and downstairs and you know what woman are like with their heating. If I had a mrs with me could you imagine the bills!!

Is your sister on the same tariff cos there's no point comparing what you pay to her if you're not and a first or second floor flat is generally warmer than one on the ground floor for obvious reasons.

 

[hollyoaks777]

You said they want £140 to test the meter?

Yes

 

[anz]

Haven't read all the posts but you've already got a condensing boiler, upgrading that wouldn't make much difference.

Older radiators contain a lot if water which needs more energy to heat up - this could be your issue.

Modern, efficient radiators hold a low water content making them heat up quicker and more efficient.

Plus there are other differences between your old and new property, insulation, Windows etc.

And then there is the tariff that your on from you gas supplier, is it the same one as before or have you just been on a standard one.

 

[hollyoaks777]

Haven't read all the posts but you've already got a condensing boiler, upgrading that wouldn't make much difference.

Older radiators contain a lot if water which needs more energy to heat up - this could be your issue.

Modern, efficient radiators hold a low water content making them heat up quicker and more efficient.

Plus there are other differences between your old and new property, insulation, Windows etc.

And then there is the tariff that your on from you gas supplier, is it the same one as before or have you just been on a standard one.

Yes it's just standard tarrif I've been on at both address. I decided earlier tonight I was going to get my meter checked as I put my neighbours gas on full blast and mine. And for the last digit to go round once mine was only 3 seconds slower than hers. And that's me with the radiator off in the back bedroom. And she is up and downstairs with all the radiators on full blast. So I called to get them to do it they don't want to do it. Your meter is fine. Etc. You can't compare properties I said they are built the with the same materials etc. But you can't compare meters or boilers, I said both are A class. And she's got more radiators than me with her being a 3 bedroom house. Nothing is wrong with the meter. Was all I kept getting I said I want it tested it's me that pays for it if I am wrong. Now I have to do meterage checks on Monday with her when she phones before they will agree to test it. Peed off is not the word!

 

[Ric2013]

I'm keeping out of the politics on this one.

To answer the original question as to which is cheaper, it's all very well with theory, but let's be practical.

Learn how to read your gas meter accurately. Most go down to quite a lot more detail than needed for billing purposes. (I once worked out the cost of boiling a pint of water on the stovetop - it was 0.6p). Run your heating for a day and see exactly how much gas you've used. Run your fire for a day and see how much gas you use. Then you'll know which is cheaper.

 

[hollyoaks777]

I'm keeping out of the politics on this one.

To answer the original question as to which is cheaper, it's all very well with theory, but let's be practical.

Learn how to read your gas meter accurately. Most go down to quite a lot more detail than needed for billing purposes. (I once worked out the cost of boiling a pint of water on the stovetop - it was 0.6p). Run your heating for a day and see exactly how much gas you've used. Run your fire for a day and see how much gas you use. Then you'll know which is cheaper.

Oh I know my central heating is cheaper as I lose 40p in the £1 with my gas fire and only 10p in the £1 with my central heating.

 

[Ric2013]

Theoretically, that's true. It also assumes your heating system is running properly. Fitting an efficient boiler to an old system won't necessarily give a greater efficiency though, as the boiler needs to be carefully set up to obtain those efficiencies. But you may also find you get more comfort for your £ from the gas fire.

I'm surprised no one has mentioned it here, but if it IS a condensing boiler, you need to make it run in condensing mode. One way is to run the boiler itself on a low temperature setting the water reaching the radiators get not so hot. Not the same as radiator valve settings. Does the boiler have temperature dials? You may find that by setting them lower and running the heating for longer it gets cheaper. Assuming the installation is half decent.

 

[hollyoaks777]

Theoretically, that's true. It also assumes your heating system is running properly. Fitting an efficient boiler to an old system won't necessarily give a greater efficiency though, as the boiler needs to be carefully set up to obtain those efficiencies. But you may also find you get more comfort for your £ from the gas fire.

I'm surprised no one has mentioned it here, but if it IS a condensing boiler, you need to make it run in condensing mode. One way is to run the boiler itself on a low temperature setting the water reaching the radiators get not so hot. Not the same as radiator valve settings. Does the boiler have temperature dials? You may find that by setting them lower and running the heating for longer it gets cheaper. Assuming the installation is half decent.

These are the dials I have mate. Plumber said they are at the best setting

 

[gmartine]

Can you take a closer clearer picture of the left hand dial.

 

[hollyoaks777]

Can you take a closer clearer picture of the left hand dial.

There you go mate.

 

[tamz]

Yes I am Scottish mate. Does it really stand out in typing?

Yes but i speak the language 😉

 

[tamz]

Also if the meter is up the swanny then they surely can't charge you for that as that's their property

You need to pay up front for a meter test and they reimburse you if it is found to be out.
Gas rating etc is not accurate enough

 

[tamz]

Btw i live in a 2 bed ex coal board bungalow that is stuffed with glass wool and my bills are about £100/month each for gas and electric.
I'm inclined to think the wee woman knows how to hit the plus button on the stat as soon as i walk out the door and i know she loves to cook things in the tumble drier.
If you want someone to blame, blame the government and the save the planets.
Global warming (or should i say climate change ie weather, as the warming stopped a few years back) is the best money making idea ever invented and you're paying for it.
Such is life 🙂

 

[hollyoaks777]

Btw i live in a 2 bed ex coal board bungalow that is stuffed with glass wool and my bills are about £100/month each for gas and electric.
I'm inclined to think the wee woman knows how to hit the plus button on the stat as soon as i walk out the door and i know she loves to cook things in the tumble drier.
If you want someone to blame, blame the government and the save the planets.
Global warming (or should i say climate change ie weather, as the warming stopped a few years back) is the best money making idea ever invented and you're paying for it.
Such is life 🙂

Yes I can understand that with a woman in the house mate. Their never warm and it has been proved scientifically that woman are colder than men. But it's like the bloody canary islands with them in the house lol.

 

[Dsp]

If this was your own property op would you be spending on the boiler or fire or rads etc or are you only kicking off as you belive you are entitled to it for free as the property isn't yours???
I needs new doors and could do with a new fire but guess what no one is going to pay for them apart from me so I have to live with high energy bills until I can afford to replace them myself

 

[hollyoaks777]

If this was your own property op would you be spending on the boiler or fire or rads etc or are you only kicking off as you belive you are entitled to it for free as the property isn't yours???
I needs new doors and could do with a new fire but guess what no one is going to pay for them apart from me so I have to live with high energy bills until I can afford to replace them myself

I don't quite get your question as it doesn't need new boiler? But does need new radiators. But I will answer it this way, if it was mine I would buy new boiler if needed and radiators asap. To save me the high bills mate. Does that answer your question?

 

[Dsp]

I don't quite get your question as it doesn't need new boiler? But does need new radiators. But I will answer it this way, if it was mine I would buy new boiler if needed and radiators asap. To save me the high bills mate. Does that answer your question?

Then go and buy them and fit them I'm sure the council won't mind it would save them and the state thousands if social housing tenants paid for their own upgrades and repairs

 

[hollyoaks777]

Then go and buy them and fit them I'm sure the council won't mind it would save them and the state thousands if social housing tenants paid for their own upgrades and repairs

I can't afford them and if I could I would keep the old radiators to put back on but I don't know where your getting boiler from as I don't need one. And by the way that's what I had to do in my old house. When I was fit and working the whole street in fact had to do their own repairs unless it was damaged roof or chimney.

 

[Dsp]

I can't afford them and if I could I would keep the old radiators to put back on but I don't know where your getting boiler from as I don't need one.

So you can't afford them so don't have them simple I don't see why you think the council should pay when there is nothing wrong with them they do the job they are intended to do.
If it was your own property with you paying for them would you even be looking at the cost of replacement or not??

 

[hollyoaks777]

So you can't afford them so don't have them simple I don't see why you think the council should pay when there is nothing wrong with them they do the job they are intended to do.
If it was your own property with you paying for them would you even be looking at the cost of replacement or not??

Of course I would be one of the first things I did. But you're missing the point I can't afford to heat my house and ended up with pneumonia last year and lost the use of my right arm into the bargain. But with physio, I have most of the use back and can feel my fingers but not my thumb. I don't get why you are having a go at me at all. Whatever I've done to upset you. I'm sorry okay.

 

[Dsp]

If you can't afford to heat the property coukd you not move to a smaller property you coukd afford to heat?? You said you only need to heat one room so could you not move to a 1 room bedsit??

 

[hollyoaks777]

If you can't afford to heat the property coukd you not move to a smaller property you coukd afford to heat?? You said you only need to heat one room so could you not move to a 1 room bedsit??

Well this is why I moved mate because I was upstairs and some days I can't even walk. So I am across from my mum and dad. And it's also easier on them to look after me when I can't walk. To get a house in this area takes years mate. And as I say I would just worry my mum and dad more and it would be harder for them to bring me dinner Etc. I could get a house tomorrow just about anywhere I live with a swap. But as I have said it's not practical mate.

 

[jonnyswamp]

I have only read the last couple of posts and going by those, you should be in some sort of sheltered accommodation surely
You have temporary paralysis and are unable to look after yourself, have your parents call social services and get yourself sorted out

 

[hollyoaks777]

I have only read the last couple of posts and going by those, you should be in some sort of sheltered accommodation surely
You have temporary paralysis and are unable to look after yourself, have your parents call social services and get yourself sorted out

I want to remain as independent as possible mate. But thank you for the advice. It's a joke trying to get any sort of help. Plus they stopped my benefits and told me I was fit for work, when that bloody Atos were involved. I watched a programme about them and it was some investigator that got themselves a job with them. Basically if you could push a button you were fit for work. I wish I was I would never say role on hometime again. Your health is absolutely priceless. I remember being a young boy and my gran telling me this when I was saying that I wanted to be a millionaire. She said no son your health is what you want and being a young boy of course I said I want to be a millionaire. I ended up with neither. Anyway we're going off topic here that's the heating on at 21 degrees Celsius. Going to run it for the day, and do what the guy that didn't want to get involved with the politics of this thread said. To run central heating for a full day, and gas fire for a full day. If it doesn't help me it may help someone else.

 

[jtsplumbing]

I have only read the last couple of posts and going by those, you should be in some sort of sheltered accommodation surely
You have temporary paralysis and are unable to look after yourself, have your parents call social services and get yourself sorted out

Or move back in with Mum & Dad then you could share the bills !!

 

[hollyoaks777]

If you can't afford to heat the property coukd you not move to a smaller property you coukd afford to heat?? You said you only need to heat one room so could you not move to a 1 room bedsit??

No mate I couldn't not practical for me. It will end up being in care but I will try my hardest to stay out of it as long as I can. Seen a Woman well that's not the word for her stand on an old man Of 82 or 92 yesterday on Yahoo. In a place of care and it won't stop bloody terrible. Don't know how these sorts of people can live with themselves!

 

[hollyoaks777]

Or move back in with Mum & Dad then you could share the bills !!

I couldn't live with my dad again mate lol. No nae never lol. I will be Ok until they go. which might be soon lost my brother 15 year ago. And now my Brother in law in August. My dad found him he's in such a state with what he saw. I don' think he will be here this time next year. Dr told him I think you've had a stroke instead of sending him to Hospital straight away to get a scan done he had to wait for letter through the post and Just got it Tuesday. Dropped foot. it is all relating to what he saw getting no help here just take these tablets and you couldn't get my dad to take a paracetamol. As he is a believer of the body heals it's self he's taking all the tablets the Dr is giving him. And he's not getting any better at all.

 

[Ric2013]

Hi OP,

From the fuzzy picture, it looks like the right hand dial _might_ vary the radiator temperature (do they get hotter with it fully up and colder with it fully down? It will probably take half an hour or so to see the difference). Or does that dial vary the temperature of the hot water in your taps?

If it varies the radiator temperature, try turning it down. The radiators will take longer to heat your rooms, but they might still be up to the job of keeping them warm once they are warm. Basically, you should only need to turn the radiators up more when it gets colder outside.

I wouldn't worry too much about radiator 'efficiency'. All a radiator is is a device for taking heat out of water and transferring it to the room. If a radiator is better at doing this, the boiler just needs to supply it with more heat. All it means is that a more effcient radiator can be physically smaller to do the same job. Provided your radiators get evenly hot, I would imagine all is well.

 

[hollyoaks777]

Hi OP,

From the fuzzy picture, it looks like the right hand dial _might_ vary the radiator temperature (do they get hotter with it fully up and colder with it fully down? It will probably take half an hour or so to see the difference). Or does that dial vary the temperature of the hot water in your taps?

If it varies the radiator temperature, try turning it down. The radiators will take longer to heat your rooms, but they might still be up to the job of keeping them warm once they are warm. Basically, you should only need to turn the radiators up more when it gets colder outside.

I wouldn't worry too much about radiator 'efficiency'. All a radiator is is a device for taking heat out of water and transferring it to the room. If a radiator is better at doing this, the boiler just needs to supply it with more heat. All it means is that a more effcient radiator can be physically smaller to do the same job. Provided your radiators get evenly hot, I would imagine all is well.

To be completely honest I haven't a clue mate. But what the Plumber from the council did say was that these settings can cost you and I let him set it to what he said was best I am scared to touch anything on the boiler radiators and thermostat yes. But lets see what happens with this test at 21 degrees all day does I am at 1706. and I will update you all tonight and again I can't thank you all enough for your help. One thing I would like to ask is how can one plumber get the Kw up a couple of digits and the other one can't? And is there anyway of telling the boiler is not giving good output? As since the last council plumber got it up it's went down to 28Kw from 29.52Kw and that was in August the 29,52Kw or would I have to ask my plumber to test it again for me? Or is there a small tool that's simple enough to use so that i don't have to bother the plumber I know.

 

[Ric2013]

One thing I would like to ask is how can one plumber get the Kw up a couple of digits and the other one can't? And is there anyway of telling the boiler is not giving good output? As since the last council plumber got it up it's went down to 28Kw from 29.52Kw and that was in August the 29,52Kw or would I have to ask my plumber to test it again for me?

I'm wondering where you are getting these figures from. Are these figures on the Gas Safety Inspection Certificate? Looks a bit like this: http://www.User PlumbersForums.net .../images/Landlords_gas_safety_record_large.jpg

If so, perhaps someone on this forum with gas knowledge can answer how these figures are calculated?

 

[gmartine]

I'm wondering where you are getting these figures from. Are these figures on the Gas Safety Inspection Certificate? Looks a bit like this: http://www.User PlumbersForums.net .../images/Landlords_gas_safety_record_large.jpg

If so, perhaps someone on this forum with gas knowledge can answer how these figures are calculated?

Squabbling over small differences in boiler output really isn't relevant in this case as the boiler itself is more than capable of providing (at a guess) the 8kw or less required to heat the whole of a two bedroom flat. The rest of the boilers output is required heat water at a reasonable rate.

 

[hollyoaks777]

I'm wondering where you are getting these figures from. Are these figures on the Gas Safety Inspection Certificate? Looks a bit like this: http://www.User PlumbersForums.net .../images/Landlords_gas_safety_record_large.jpg

If so, perhaps someone on this forum with gas knowledge can answer how these figures are calculated?

Just says boiler repairs and heating log. On it, I have a Gas safety check in November, but I think you are correct mate. Oh it's not like that but hey it's the council lol.

 

[hollyoaks777]

Squabbling over small differences in boiler output really isn't relevant in this case as the boiler itself is more than capable of providing (at a guess) the 8kw or less required to heat the whole of a two bedroom flat. The rest of the boilers output is required heat water at a reasonable rate.

OK thank you

Does anyone know if I can buy another wireless heating control for my danfoss reciever? My Occupational therapist tried to get me an extra one for when I can't walk but council said it is not an adaption and I haven't to get one and I have just to use my electric blanket. When the guy installed it he said I could buy fancy ones off eBay but they always break. But I think it is just a single band reciever. And I don't know if it will work. If that's not an adaption for someones health I don't know what is. Trouble is it was an electrition that installed it. And I don't get any electritions coming into my house. If not it's fine I will just make do with my blanket.

Heating Test I have messed up as I forgot it turns itself off after a number of times. So I don't know when it turned itself off. Back on at 21 degrees as of 1:27pm

 

[gmartine]

I hope your investigations are successful so please keep the thread updated. I may be mistaken but my feeling is that you simply have a different larger, colder flat so it's going to cost you a bit more to heat. £20/m extra is a lot to you so it may be worth contacting the moneysavingexpert.com forum for better advice over tariffs as well as social care and advice.

ATB.

 

[hollyoaks777]

I hope your investigations are successful so please keep the thread updated. I may be mistaken but my feeling is that you simply have a different larger, colder flat so it's going to cost you a bit more to heat. £20/m extra is a lot to you so it may be worth contacting the moneysavingexpert.com forum for better advice over tariffs as well as social care and advice.

ATB.

Do you yourself think that's all it is even with the radiator off in the back bedroom?

I should only be using 8000 or 9000 and that is extreme
for 1 person in the house. 20000 is a national average for a 4 bedroom house national average with
2 adults and 2 kids. Is what I was told I should be using Richard at SSE told me. So I think what would really help me is what is the average for a single person in a 2 Bedroom house.

It was this guy that said there is no way you are using that and quoted the above suggesting it was my meter. He was more than happy to get the meter tested for me with the charge if it is not faulty. I used 15,685kw in a year.

But going by what he said and the other people I have asked My siter to be precise as that's the exact size of house she is in with 2 adults and 2 kids all having showers each morning apart from my wee neice who has to have a bath every morning. Because of her spinabifia. and she was only £60 a month with the 4 of them but now only 3 of them and you know what women are like with the heating.

 

[gmartine]

I think average use is precisely that, average, which'll mean that for most people it isn't on during the day (during the week) so you could well rack up that sort of use and there are just far too many variables to rely on figures given by others like your sister.

Your best bet is to speak to another ground floor neighbour in the same building that has the same system and ask about their usage and cost and that'll give a more accurate idea over whether your usage is excessive or not.

 

[hollyoaks777]

I think average use is precisely that, average, which'll mean that for most people it isn't on during the day (during the week) so you could well rack up that sort of use.

There are just far too many differences to start making a direct and relevant comparison with others like your sister, your best bet is to speak to another ground floor neighbour in the same building that has the same system and ask about their usage and cost.

Next door would be Ideal but they bought the house over a year ago and haven't moved in yet. I am bloody roasting doing this test. I will have to have a few days in my long Johns and theramal long sleeve shirt lol. To account for the wastage.

 

[joni os]

Having an empty property next door will increase heat loss through party wall.

 

[hollyoaks777]

Having an empty property next door will increase heat loss through party wall.

Yip it will mate. Oh I hope things get better.

 

[gmartine]

Next door would be Ideal but they bought the house over a year ago and haven't moved in yet. I am bloody roasting doing this test. I will have to have a few days in my long Johns and theramal long sleeve shirt lol. To account for the wastage.

You shouldn't be roasting should you, where is your room stat?

 

[hollyoaks777]

You shouldn't be roasting should you, where is your room stat?

In the hall mate not sweating roasting but very warm as Living Room radiator I was told to keep it at full. the rest at 2.

 

[village idiot]

hollyoaks, I hope you get sorted out, but some posts gets to the point where you begin to think 'This is a Wind-up'? I'm not sure what's going on here, but whatever it is, it's unfruitful.

 

[hollyoaks777]

hollyoaks, I hope you get sorted out, but some posts gets to the point where you begin to think 'This is a Wind-up'? I'm not sure what's going on here, but whatever it is, it's unfruitful.

Are you saying I am not telling you the truth!!! I can whole heartedly tell you I am and have only made one mistake today for a maximum of an hour I would say. When the wireless control goes off itself. Don't ask me why it does that, must be a thing to save you money if you went out and left the heating on. Why else would I be wasting all my gas. I want to get the correct result it's been on the whole day. And I thought we were coming to an end tomorrow. With the gas fire on all day. That's one thing you will never get me doing is telling lies. Never have never will. I put it on at 8am but never took a picture of the meter until 9:32am. I haven't slept a wink and have just took my medicine knowing that it will knock me out tonight. And hoping that I don't mess up and fall asleep. But I can't change my times for my medicines and I am determined to see it throgh to 9:32pm. You've really hurt my feelings if that is what you think. Is it?