Commercial or domestic gas supply

[jaydebruyne]

hey,

So am due to do some work at a domestic property above a restaurant. The domestic property has been run from the commercial gas supply.

This isn’t right, surely? The domestic property has been fitted with an AECV. I need to upgrade pipe size to water heater.

Gas safe reckon they need their own meter but I just wanted to double check as the gas safe guy sounded like he couldn’t really care less about talking to me.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Are they renting it / what's it used for ?

 

[jaydebruyne]

Are they renting it / what's it used for ?

So the gas supply going into the domestic property is for a Main water heater. Only gas appliance in the flat. It’s coming directly off of the commercial gas run. Yup, it’s being rented out.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

So the gas supply going into the domestic property is for a Main water heater. Only gas appliance in the flat. It’s coming directly off of the commercial gas run. Yup, it’s being rented out.

I would say needs its own secondary meter

 

[jaydebruyne]

I would say needs its own secondary meter

Ah you’re a mod now Just seen the badge!!
Would this be done by Transco?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Ah you’re a mod now Just seen the badge!!
Would this be done by Transco?

It could be (but not normally) anyone holding there met qualification normally

 

[jaydebruyne]

It could be (but not normally) anyone holding there met qualification normally

I’ve got MET1 I think.. :/ not sure I want to get involved tho. Is it just a case of connecting a meter/ECV in place of the AECV?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

It's upto you tbh if you have your met kits below

Don't remove the existing aecv as this will land under commercial spec

U6 secondary Gas Meter Kit - 21457 | BES.co.uk

 

[jaydebruyne]

It's upto you tbh if you have your met kits below

Don't remove the existing aecv as this will land under commercial spec

U6 secondary Gas Meter Kit - 21457 | BES.co.uk

Oh really? Ok, will leave it there and fit the meter after it. Sod it I’ll do it myself. Cheers for the info Shawn 🙂

 

[Harvest Fields]

Oh really? Ok, will leave it there and fit the meter after it. Sod it I’ll do it myself. Cheers for the info Shawn 🙂

BES do a kit at a decent price. You get everything you need.

 

[jaydebruyne]

BES do a kit at a decent price. You get everything you need.

Yeah I’ll order it

 

[Last Plumber]

It’s coming directly off of the commercial gas run.

Have you got a Commercial ticket?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Have you got a Commercial ticket?

No he doesn't

 

[jaydebruyne]

Have you got a Commercial ticket?

Nope, just domestic

 

[Harvest Fields]

Have you got a Commercial ticket?

Think that’s why Shaun has said don’t mess with the ECV for the flat. Pipe in after it.

 

[Last Plumber]

Nope, just domestic

It is a section of a Commercial Gas installation. The AECV is part of the installation pipework.

 

[Last Plumber]

It's a Commercial job really.
You won't be covered if anything goes wrong.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

It's a Commercial job really.
You won't be covered if anything goes wrong.

Not really mate as there a valve anything after will be under .0035

 

[Last Plumber]

Not really mate as there a valve anything after will be under .0035

I beg to differ Shaun.
I have noticed since I started looking at Forums, there seems to be a lot of debate about this subject. IGEM make the distinction quite clear in my opinion. I don't see what the confusion is.

It's 0.035 too, not 0.0035.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

I beg to differ Shaun.
I have noticed since I started looking at Forums, there seems to be a lot of debate about this subject. IGEM make the distinction quite clear in my opinion. I don't see what the confusion is.

It's 0.035 too, not 0.0035.

Not when gas safe are involved a domestic engineer can work on / change a commercial supply aslong as it's under 35mm and valved so it's under 0.035 what there working on

Had this argument with gas safe but they say there fine

 

[Harvest Fields]

That’s what I thought but I have been wrong in the past. Glad I can go back to my old way of thinking.😛

 

[Last Plumber]

Not when gas safe are involved a domestic engineer can work on / change a commercial supply aslong as it's under 35mm and valved so it's under 0.035 what there working on

Had this argument with gas safe but they say there fine

I have had my fair share of arguments with GS and Corgi.
They can get things wrong like we all can.


IGE UP 1B States:-

• A nominal bore of not greater than 35 mm and
• A maximum badged capacity through the primary meter of not exceeding 16 m3 h-1 and
• A maximum installation volume supplying an individual dwelling or non domestic premises of 0.035 m3

I highlight the and's because all these criteria go together.
Otherwise, we could all section everything off and everyone could work on anything.


IGEM make the definition for installation pipework clear.

"Installation pipework is any pipework for conveying gas for a particular consumer and any associated valve or other gas fitting, including any pipework used to connect a gas appliance to other installation pipework and any shut off device at the inlet to the appliance",

The installation Volume is the Volume of the whole installation and not one small valved off section of it.

I wouldn't class this as an 'individual' dwelling or non-domestic premises. It is both combined to me. That's how I read and understand it.

Is the Primary Meter U16 or less?
Is the max pipe bore 35mm?
Is the total installation Volume less than 0.035 including the Meter?
If the answer to the above three questions was yes, then fair enough I suppose. I would still question the 'individual premises' part though.

 

[Last Plumber]

Just a note to add:-

In nearly every Industrial and Commercial Building I work in, there will be valved sections of the installation that are less than 1 1/4" bore, with less vol than 0.035 .

That does not mean that any Gas safe Engineer can go and work on it.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Aslong as it's a u16 or under yes they can

"A maximum installation volume supplying an individual dwelling or non domestic premises of 0.035 m3"

 

[Harvest Fields]

I’mmmmmmm soooooo confuseeeedd😛😛

 

[Last Plumber]

Aslong as it's a u16 or under yes they can

"A maximum installation volume supplying an individual dwelling or non domestic premises of 0.035 m3"

I posted that ?

Not when gas safe are involved a domestic engineer can work on / change a commercial supply aslong as it's under 35mm and valved so it's under 0.035 what there working on

You posted that!


It's simple to me and it goes like this:-

1 Is the 'Primary' meter U16 or smaller?
2 Is the installation pipework 35mm or less?
3 Is the Maximum installation Volume including the primary Meter less than 35 dm (0.035M)?

A 'yes' to those three will confirm that a domestic engineer can work on it and therefore whether it is a Commercial or Domestic sized Gas installation (pretty much and even though I think it barmy but that is another subject).

So in answer to your comment Shaun First off we need to decide whether the installation is classed as Domestic or Commercial.

If it is classed as Commercial, then a domestic engineer cannot work on it. Even if they section a part off that is smaller than 0.035m. This is because the installation is commercial and at no point does it change into a domestic.

 

[Last Plumber]

I’mmmmmmm soooooo confuseeeedd😛😛

Don't be confused Harvest. It's straight forward.
It is either a domestic size gas installation or a commercial size installation. That to me dictates who can work on it. There are no Half domestic half Commercial installations in my book. Never seen one anyway.

 

[jaydebruyne]

I’m confused now. I haven’t seen the meter yet as I never went to the restaurant because it’s commercial and I don’t have a ticket.

I would think that if I need to shut off the ECV at the primary meter (in restaurant) to work on the section serving the domestic flat, I’d need a commercial ticket? I’m pretty sure the pipework is 35mm steel and then then tees off in 22mm copper to serve the domestic property.

Not sure what to do ???

 

[ShaunCorbs]

I would do my work and get paid

It would be something different if you had to tap into the main run / supply

 

[Last Plumber]

I must admit, it does nark me that the goal posts changed to allow this

I’m confused now. I haven’t seen the meter yet as I never went to the restaurant because it’s commercial and I don’t have a ticket.

I would think that if I need to shut off the ECV at the primary meter (in restaurant) to work on the section serving the domestic flat, I’d need a commercial ticket? I’m pretty sure the pipework is 35mm steel and then then tees off in 22mm copper to serve the domestic property.

Not sure what to do ???

Lol
It's up to you.
I personally would look at the Restaurant installation and decide if it's within your remit and if it is, there's nowt to think about, get on with it.

Order a Meter from BES.

If it's definitely Commercial, you are then working an a section of a Commercial installation. It is a small section, granted but never the less, it's Commercial.
In my opinion.

Ask Gas Safe their thoughts. If they categorise it as within domestic remit, ask them to put it in writing and send it to you. That way you have a come back should you get pulled for anything.

 

[Harvest Fields]

Don't be confused Harvest. It's straight forward.
It is either a domestic size gas installation or a commercial size installation. That to me dictates who can work on it. There are no Half domestic half Commercial installations in my book. Never seen one anyway.

I definitely am.😛😛😛